Need advice on a 1911!! Will be my first 1911 purchase

[Aaron1776]

So after all the talk of Springfields I may have to look into those as well. I figured they were alot more expensive. The r1 that I saw was right around $750 if memory serves correct. Again I appreciate everyone's input! I guess you could say I'm into the "new age" type guns. The infamous "black guns" glock,m&p, and XDs and I own several but I have really been wanting a 1911. And my knowledge on these were low, so any advice I'm definitely noting!

This was me. I had shot my grandfather's and uncle's 1911s all of my life plus 1911 "type" weapons, but I never got around to owning a real 1911 of my own until this year.

I loved my XD and still love my M&P.....but my Springfield MC Operator is my princess. I had planned on buying a loaded, Parkerized Springfield 1911 after selling several guns I no longer wanted.....but then I saw that MC Operator in the display case and realized that I didn't really need a compact M&P anyway. (The full size conceals real easily)

So I came home with my railed 1911....and personaly I like the railed look more. Just my style.

I'll never go back.

 

[Fullmag]

Before you buy, go and try.
My thinking is a least get the Novak style sights bare min. If there's two things that you'll want to upgrade if any, is sights and trigger, so get what you want first.

I handled the Remington and Rugers, for me the feel was not as nice as the others.
Colts are pricey, do your homework many variations with big price range differences, but all have a feel like no other.
Bought and absolute love the Sig-Saur GSR stainless. Thinking there just under $1000 new.

Here's good link: Buyer's guide for all you 1911 addicts...

 

[church]

You both make valid points, ill have to continue to read more to learn about the subject. Also, if anyone found my posts to be insulting or rude you have my apologies. I was trying to be neither.

 

[JLL101]

This is a follow up to a post I made last night in part about 9mm vs 45 cal choices. Today I ran across the chart about One Shot Stopping Percentages. This document was titled "Handgun Cartridges Power Chart" and was part of an article I read on line several years ago. The Chart lists calibers from .22LR to .45ACP. I will provide you with 5 selected calibers including the 9mm and the .45ACP starting with the .22LR. Unfortunately, I did not copy the WEB address to the document as I now normally do and I am unsure of what search words were used to obtain this information. With that said the chart had the following statement at the bottom; "The above data is drawn from various sources including the book Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, and various articles in magazines such as Handguns."

.22LR ,CCI Stinger 32gr LHP, One Shot Stop % = 34% , 6" Colt
.380ACP, Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 69%, 3.2" Walther
9x19, Cor-Bon +P 115gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 91%, 4" Glock
.40S&W, Rem. Golden Saber 165 gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 94%, 4" S&W
.45ACP, Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 94%, 5" Colt

I selected the highest One Shot Stop % for each of the 5 selected calibers. This chart only had two Loads per Caliber to choose from. I have seen other Charts that included 4 or 5 selected Loads per Caliber. Those Charts are consistent with the maximum results listed here.

The numbers indicate to me that there is nominal stopping power difference between the 9mm, the ,40S&W and the .45ACP. Again these numbers are 6 to 8 years old thus you should do your own analysis of what is the appropriate caliber for your needs and update accordingly.

 

[Aaron1776]

You both make valid points, ill have to continue to read more to learn about the subject. Also, if anyone found my posts to be insulting or rude you have my apologies. I was trying to be neither.

No worries bro. Even if you were trying to be rude, we have thick skins here. It's required for internet gun talk. lol

This is a follow up to a post I made last night in part about 9mm vs 45 cal choices. Today I ran across the chart about One Shot Stopping Percentages. This document was titled "Handgun Cartridges Power Chart" and was part of an article I read on line several years ago. The Chart lists calibers from .22LR to .45ACP. I will provide you with 5 selected calibers including the 9mm and the .45ACP starting with the .22LR. Unfortunately, I did not copy the WEB address to the document as I now normally do and I am unsure of what search words were used to obtain this information. With that said the chart had the following statement at the bottom; "The above data is drawn from various sources including the book Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, and various articles in magazines such as Handguns."

.22LR ,CCI Stinger 32gr LHP, One Shot Stop % = 34% , 6" Colt
.380ACP, Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 69%, 3.2" Walther
9x19, Cor-Bon +P 115gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 91%, 4" Glock
.40S&W, Rem. Golden Saber 165 gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 94%, 4" S&W
.45ACP, Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr JHP, One Shot Stop % = 94%, 5" Colt

I selected the highest One Shot Stop % for each of the 5 selected calibers. This chart only had two Loads per Caliber to choose from. I have seen other Charts that included 4 or 5 selected Loads per Caliber. Those Charts are consistent with the maximum results listed here.

The numbers indicate to me that there is nominal stopping power difference between the 9mm, the ,40S&W and the .45ACP. Again these numbers are 6 to 8 years old thus you should do your own analysis of what is the appropriate caliber for your needs and update accordingly.

I would believe those numbers given "ideal conditions", but in reality my observations in the ER paint a much different picture. I've still not seen a better explanation of what I've seen than the Hatcher Formula.

Where's BehindBlueIs when you need him? I know he'll back me up here. (Homicide investigator)

9mms for example, given ideal conditions and premium JHP rounds, can be very effective. But once you introduce intervening mediums, glass, doors, cabinets, chairs, couches, thick coats, lots of fat, etc They lose their effectiveness quick by either deflection or loss of momentum.

Premium .45 JHPs keep on movin' like a freight train and give you that consistency you need.


.40s aren't BAD rounds. Just rather pointless as they have more muzzle flip (thereby increasing time between shots) and less power than a .45 and less rounds than a 9mm. Effectively robbing you of either advantage.


I'll carry either 9mm or .45 comfortably as I'm skilled with either. I just know that I'll probably have to whack him more times with my 9mm. Which is fine, because I can also shoot faster with it.

However, in the context of a 1911. I'd never use a 9mm. The 1911 wasn't designed for the 9mm, and it's a 102 year old design that doesn't maintain its reliability well when you go out of specs with it.

 

[d012]

1911 in .45. Start of with the basic model and then work your way up to other models and sizes.

 

[JLL101]

As I recall the numbers are based on actual data gathered from investigated and documented shootings. Ideal conditions played no role in the statistics. One can interpret as they wish but the numbers are the numbers.

From all the write ups I have seen about 1911 calibers other than the 45ACP indicate that the other calibers are just as reliable. I do not pretend to be anything like an expert but John Browning's basic designs were adapted for many calibers and I tend to think that there is nothing magical about the performance of the .45ACP vs the performance of a 9x19 through a hand gun conforming to the 1911 style.

Additional thought: By the way, several 9x19 rounds now meet the FBI minimum requirements for penetration through hard objects and still maintain the tactical effectiveness required by current FBI protocol, while several .45ACP rounds did not make the cut.

 

[Aaron1776]

As I recall the numbers are based on actual data gathered from investigated and documented shootings. Ideal conditions played no role in the statistics. One can interpret as they wish but the numbers are the numbers.

Don't assume that until you've seen the selection criteria. Again. Doesn't jive with what I've seen with my own eyes at all. That and cherry picking premium 9mm rounds already screams of selection bias.

Sounds like someone trying to sell the "wonder rounds" again. The simple physical laws of momentum and intertia cannot and will not be denied.

From all the write ups I have seen about 1911 calibers other than the 45ACP indicate that the other calibers are just as reliable. I do not pretend to be anything like an expert but John Browning's basic designs were adapted for many calibers and I tend to think that there is nothing magical about the performance of the .45ACP vs the performance of a 9x19 through a hand gun conforming to the 1911 style.

This is where you're dead wrong. No 1911 expert (or even serious user) will tell you any different either. The .45 cal round was designed for the 1911, and the 1911 for the .45. The timing of the slide, ejector, pressure from the explosion of the round's powder, etc all need to be spot on to make the 1911 the reliable awesomness that it is. As soon as you screw with caliber that all goes out the window.

Additional thought: By the way, several 9x19 rounds now meet the FBI minimum requirements for penetration through hard objects and still maintain the tactical effectiveness required by current FBI protocol, while several .45ACP rounds did not make the cut.

Given some of the low grain BS they're making these days, (.45s were mean to be 230 grains people. Live with it.) that doesn't surprise me. Could you fill me on which rounds didn't make the cut, so I could continue ignoring them for serious defensive use?

Also please include which 9mms DID make the cut, so I can put them in my M&P.

 

[SERparacord]

The .45 that passed original testing was a 200 grain bullet. 230 was chosen because it was more effective against the Moro. .45 ACP can be any where between 185 and 230 gr..

 

[JLL101]

I did not post to start a meaningless banter counter thread. Of course the .45ACP is a more powerful round than the 9X19. However, my posting was about the stopping power of selected rounds, not about how much kinetic energy is generated. And, of course kinetic energy is a strong contributing factor to a rounds effectiveness but so is the type of bullet used, the type and amount of propellant and probably many other factors that this poster does not necessarily care to become an expert about. To me, the bottom line of the chosen caliber of a defensive hand gun is the stopping power of a well placed shot. Caliber is down the list of my requirements for my weapon of choice. As many many commentators have written in the past, if I knew I was going to be in a gunfight, I would bring a shotgun with defensive rounds or rifle with significantly higher performance characteristics capabilities than a hand gun.

The reason I posted was to provide the originator of this thread basic information I had previously gathered about the effectiveness of selected ammo in stopping the bad guy. Then I recommended he do his own research and develop his own conclusions. It seems to me some posters have their own agenda to push and I wanted to provide a different thought process so that a reader can maybe have a different take on a subject to help them solidify their final decisions.

The 1911 platform is an excellent proven weapons system. While in the military in the early 70s, I carried and shot the .45ACP weapon as was mandated. Fortunately, I was never in real harms way. If I had been assigned such a duty station, I certainly would have also carried a M16. As numerous other posters have pointed out, there are a multitude of high quality extremely reliable alternatives to the 1911 platform. To me, hand guns (and long guns) are like vehicles and women. I have my specific likes and dislikes and only by getting to know a hand gun on a personal basis do I know what I like best. Choosing the caliber for your chosen weapon is just as subjective.

Relative to the current FBI hand gun ammo requirements and results, that data is readily available. One should do their own research and draw their own conclusions. I am not inclined to do research for others that can easily be done. However, as I recall the Hornady Critical Duty 9X19 made the cut and I think some (all?) .45ACP FMJ did not make the cut.

 

[IndyGuns1]

I appreciate all of the 9 vs 45 advice!!! I've taken all of that into consideration. I also went and held the r1 again today and I didn't like the feel of it as I initially thought, ESP opposed to the kimber I held. But then again I cannot justify the price difference.
So from past posts, I've had several people suggest a sig, or a Springfield. I didn't have a chance to hold either, but what models are they?

 

[churchmouse]

I appreciate all of the 9 vs 45 advice!!! I've taken all of that into consideration. I also went and held the r1 again today and I didn't like the feel of it as I initially thought, ESP opposed to the kimber I held. But then again I cannot justify the price difference.
So from past posts, I've had several people suggest a sig, or a Springfield. I didn't have a chance to hold either, but what models are they?

If you want I will let you fondle any of my Springers. Range Officer, Loaded, TRP, or a National Match Trophy.
I am west side Indy. Shoot me (pun definitely intended) a PM.

I have not found much about the R1 to get excited about but that is just me.

-CM-

 

[SERparacord]

If you want I will let you fondle any of my Springers. Range Officer, Loaded, TRP, or a National Match Trophy.
I am west side Indy. Shoot me (pun definitely intended) a PM.

I have not found much about the R1 to get excited about but that is just me.

-CM-

 

[wcd]

Ruger SR1911 been very happy with Mine, in my opinion a good value for the money.

 

[11-B]

Sig makes great 1911s

 

[churchmouse]

Yup...nice looking piece.

Done more than 1 side by side comparison with the R1 and a few other 1911's. Never had the pleasure of shooting one and I am sure they run A-OK.
The ones I have fondled just did not work for me in fit/finish and trigger.
As I said, just me.

 

[SERparacord]

Yup...nice looking piece.

Done more than 1 side by side comparison with the R1 and a few other 1911's. Never had the pleasure of shooting one and I am sure they run A-OK.
The ones I have fondled just did not work for me in fit/finish and trigger.
As I said, just me.

No 1911 trigger is good from the factory. Except Brown and Wilson.

 

[blueboxer]

I appreciate all of the 9 vs 45 advice!!! I've taken all of that into consideration. I also went and held the r1 again today and I didn't like the feel of it as I initially thought, ESP opposed to the kimber I held. But then again I cannot justify the price difference.
So from past posts, I've had several people suggest a sig, or a Springfield. I didn't have a chance to hold either, but what models are they?

For the Sig, any full size model that tickles your fancy. Gander up in Castleton has quite a few. I recommend the tac ops traditional myself. Go to Sig's website and you will find plenty of info.

For Springer I recommend a Loaded or Range Officer model.

No 1911 trigger is good from the factory. Except Brown and Wilson.

Uh...high standards much? You must absolutely hate the trigger on every single gun other than those two brands then. Personally, and I think many on here would agree with me, there are PLENTY of 1911's other than Brown's and Wilsons that have flat out great factory triggers.

 

[church]

For the Sig, any full size model that tickles your fancy. Gander up in Castleton has quite a few. I recommend the tac ops traditional myself. Go to Sig's website and you will find plenty of info.

For Springer I recommend a Loaded or Range Officer model.



Uh...high standards much? You must absolutely hate the trigger on every single gun other than those two brands then. Personally, and I think many on here would agree with me, there are PLENTY of 1911's other than Brown's and Wilsons that have flat out great factory triggers.

Like Les Baer for example! The trigger on my Baer is outstanding!

 

[SERparacord]

For the Sig, any full size model that tickles your fancy. Gander up in Castleton has quite a few. I recommend the tac ops traditional myself. Go to Sig's website and you will find plenty of info.

For Springer I recommend a Loaded or Range Officer model.



Uh...high standards much? You must absolutely hate the trigger on every single gun other than those two brands then. Personally, and I think many on here would agree with me, there are PLENTY of 1911's other than Brown's and Wilsons that have flat out great factory triggers.

Factory triggers are lawyer triggers. I do have high standards, I do all my own trigger work.