Need some feed back on my way of thinking for home defense

[tyler79durdan]

I MIGHT personally have a 28 gun safe with digital access in my bedroom next to alpha bed side. Wife/other/Beta must know how to operate each tool within the safe proficiently and effectively and safely. G17 9mm with JHP on night stand(secured while away) which allows me(or wife) time to access the safe containing a Moss 930 and Moss HD 500 both with 8-10rds+ of military OLIN 00buck in mag tubes. Present 930 first and retreat to find 500 last. Safe should have automatic internal lighting in a frequency not readily seen from a distance (I.E. red or amber, not bright white). ALWAYS "prove" each tool with range time and rds intended to protect. Kids(boys 8 and 10) know that they have to retreat under the the furthest bed (in home) during invasion. Shotguns are a primary tool and the HG is secondary ALWAYS. Learn your transition until they are second nature. IMO 00buck is a force multiplier with 9 -30cal rds per shot(thats 72 30cal rds per magtube minimum). 00buck WILL over penetrate and account for that. These rds MUST be able to be placed on target without question. Spread is minimal in home environmental distances. Practice with all tools is key and spare no expense mastering each. Add 3"+ screws to all door hinges and striker plates to give more seconds to access safe. Always use loud, intimidating tones and vocal commands while commanding an intruder. Let him/her know that death is probable. NEVER, EVER discharge unless fired upon or directly attacked with a deadly weapon. Cell phones on each side of parental beds used to call for police assistance is key to survival/backup in a deadly encounter. IMO of course.

 

[jaybus]

Agree. I currently use an alarm and one GSD (German Shepherd Dog). I lost my female last year and my male is not overly dog friendly, so haven't yet replaced her. These buy the time needed to arm ourselves and react. Those who have experience with schutzhund training will understand. Even armed, very few attackers would get past this dog. Only the crazy or extremely overconfident would even try. Having the time to react is far more important than weapon choice, so I use a 1911. I feel I'd be more likely to accidentally hit my dog with a shotgun.

Several years ago, in my old Knoxville, TN neighborhood, an armed man broke in to his ex's house. A neighbor called the police. When they responded, before they even stopped their vehicle, he fired on them. When the police returned fire, he re-enetered the house and it became a hostage situation. He again fired on them from a window, but police could not return fire at the house. When K9 arrived, he was informed that if he didn't surrender they would release the dogs. He surrendered. He was disturbed enough to have a firefight with police, but not crazy enough to fight the dogs. Sold me on the idea.

 

[JIMMYJAM58]

Defense choice

I have always kept a 45 acp on my nightstand with a couple of extra mags so I have about 21 rounds available. I have thought about going to an AR with a 20 round mag. I have also put some heavy thought into a shotgun. Each have their pros and cons. 45 ACP: In the dark of the night it would be hard to find the perpetrator to load him up with lead. AR15: Lots of ammo but once again it may be hard to find the perpetrator in the dark of the night, although spraying 20 or 30 rounds would likely hit my target. Shotgun: Limited rounds but likely I would hit the pepetrator with a couple of shells fired off. While a shotgun is limited in it's rounds the shock and awe effect would be immense in itself. While I haven't done it yet I likely will bring one of my shotguns in my room for protection in the future.

For years I have keep a 12ga pump in the bed room just in case there is a bump in the night, and my pistol isn't to far away as a back up. But in the last week or so I have been thinking about changing that to a 300 BLK 10" barrel. I have always stay away from the AR platform for home defense because of the over penetration that could happen, that is one reason I have been using the pump with 00 buck. But while online looking for something to spend my Christmas bonus on I came across the 300 BLK home defense rounds and some of those look pretty nice. But back to my question.

I know we all have different home setups and all need to do different things if something happens. In a nut shell here is my setup the family is me, wife, and 2 sons (16-13). We have a house alarm and 2 dogs so anyone entering the house will wake us up. With the boys in different rooms I can't sit back and wait for the cops I will need to be sure the noise is not them and they are safe so that means me leaving the bed room. Any firearm I use will have a light on it plus I keep extra lights in my room but with a pump no real way to carry a extra light in my hand, but with a AR pistol I could.

Here is how I sum up my choices
Shotgun-
Great stopping power
00 Buck doesn't have a lot of over penetration risk

AR Pistol 300Blk
Home defense rounds good stopping power
Home defense round little over penetration risk
Could use it one handed so I could have my left hand free for flashlight, open doors, balance,or what ever
30 rounds in the mag is very nice plus extras could be carried easy

I don't believe me racking the pump won't scare anyone away that is what the house alarm is for.
I don't think I will need 20-30 rounds of ammo, shotgun has 12 (saddle and tube) and that should be enough but having a extra mag does make me feel better.

So am I crazy to think it might be time to change?

I know I will need to train more on the new platform and do many dry runs walking thru the house.

 

[churchmouse]

I have always kept a 45 acp on my nightstand with a couple of extra mags so I have about 21 rounds available. I have thought about going to an AR with a 20 round mag. I have also put some heavy thought into a shotgun. Each have their pros and cons. 45 ACP: In the dark of the night it would be hard to find the perpetrator to load him up with lead. AR15: Lots of ammo but once again it may be hard to find the perpetrator in the dark of the night, although spraying 20 or 30 rounds would likely hit my target. Shotgun: Limited rounds but likely I would hit the pepetrator with a couple of shells fired off. While a shotgun is limited in it's rounds the shock and awe effect would be immense in itself. While I haven't done it yet I likely will bring one of my shotguns in my room for protection in the future.

We keep just enough low light to navigate the entire house outside our bedrooms. We can see clearly enough in this level of light and advantages are in our favor coming from darkness or even seeing a threat in our room from the glow of the lights and the wood stove.
Having a railed pistol with mounted light is another advantage. The 12g and AR are set up the same way.
A hand held light held high and away can be a distraction to a threat if you are concerned to give away your actual position. We can do both from the available gear on our night stands.

 

[nrgrams]

Devil's advocate on anyone using a shotgun with other family members....can all of your household members use and operate your shotgun properly? Growing up, my dad always had a 12 gauge as home defense, but because of my size, the length of pull was awkward and recoil was pretty strong (I'm 5"3" 140# as a grown man, sooooo....). Is the OP's wife able to operate the 12 gauge? how about his 13 and 16 yr old kids? The AR platform has more capacity (what if there are 6 people entering your home?), adjustable length of pull for multiple size users, light attachments, has less recoil for followup shots and accuracy, and can have an shorter overall shorter footprint if in a pistol/SBR configuration.

So many pros and cons for either, just throwing it out there.

 

[Bigtanker]

I have always kept a 45 acp on my nightstand with a couple of extra mags so I have about 21 rounds available. I have thought about going to an AR with a 20 round mag. I have also put some heavy thought into a shotgun. Each have their pros and cons. 45 ACP: In the dark of the night it would be hard to find the perpetrator to load him up with lead. AR15: Lots of ammo but once again it may be hard to find the perpetrator in the dark of the night, although spraying 20 or 30 rounds would likely hit my target. ​Shotgun: Limited rounds but likely I would hit the perpetrator with a couple of shells fired off. While a shotgun is limited in it's rounds the shock and awe effect would be immense in itself. While I haven't done it yet I likely will bring one of my shotguns in my room for protection in the future.

Are you saying that because it's a long gun and your aim will be better or because of the spread of the 00 buck? Have you patterned your shotgun at the common distances in your house? The spread on a buck shot load at short distances is very small. It will need to be aimed just like an AR or pistol. There won't be a 3 foot spread in 40 feet.

 

[dudley0]

Are you saying that because it's a long gun and your aim will be better or because of the spread of the 00 buck? Have you patterned your shotgun at the common distances in your house? The spread on a buck shot load at short distances is very small. It will need to be aimed just like an AR or pistol. There won't be a 3 foot spread in 40 feet.

But.... but.... I saw this movie once ....

 

[88E30M50]

I built a suppressed AR pistol in 300BO as my HD weapon, but have not run enough rounds through it to promote it to HD duty yet. My goal is to stop the threat while retaining any hearing that I have left. This combo, along with an Eotech 512 handles well and has not failed in the 200 rounds I've put through it so far, but I want to run it more to be 100% confident in it and in my ability to use it.

Until that happens, I keep a dedicated HD pistol on the nightstand along with my EDC gun next to it. There's an AR on the wall with a headset hanging off of it should I need to go that route. It's not the best setup out there, but it works for me.

 

[churchmouse]

Devil's advocate on anyone using a shotgun with other family members....can all of your household members use and operate your shotgun properly? Growing up, my dad always had a 12 gauge as home defense, but because of my size, the length of pull was awkward and recoil was pretty strong (I'm 5"3" 140# as a grown man, sooooo....). Is the OP's wife able to operate the 12 gauge? how about his 13 and 16 yr old kids? The AR platform has more capacity (what if there are 6 people entering your home?), adjustable length of pull for multiple size users, light attachments, has less recoil for followup shots and accuracy, and can have an shorter overall shorter footprint if in a pistol/SBR configuration.

So many pros and cons for either, just throwing it out there.

Good points. It is just me and the spouse with occasional stay overs with the terrorists in my avatar and the older sister. I am the only one that can and will run the 12G. The spouse has a railed CZ shadow in 9mm. She will not leave the bedroom. I will.
Any rounds I may discharge in the house will be with their safety in mind. Every situation will be different. Plans evaporate on 1st contact.

 

[1stLast&Always]

Safety First, how will this weapon be stored with kids around? Then, for security, the deterrence first approach is sensible. Next, make a plan. Keep the perps out with your security, grab a HG, grab the kids,retreat to safety and make a call. Long guns or SBR/SBS I'd do last. Drill with the family for your plan and make it a once a month thing.

IMO, A 300 Blackout pistol w/10" barrel, Shockwave pistol stabilizer fully collapsed and a 20 round mag (the 30s do get somewhat heavy) and a nice light is great. Think PDW. This setup will be similar in weight to a SG loaded with rounds of #00 buck and will be tighter to your body, a one point sling makes it super portable and frees up hands if need be. A red dot on top makes for ultra fast target acquisition at close range, even if the battery is dead you have a giant "ghost ring" to use, right?

The downside? The 300 BLK is a straight walled, .30 cal pistol round, essentially. It's not a 5.56 round with high velocity. It has the same case, with a heavier projectile and not much powder to push it. I say this as I reload this round as well. In one shot, it doesn't have the surface area of one shot with #4 buck out of a SG (all those pellets in a tight area do a lot of damage at close range). This means you would need more rounds on target with the BO. NOISE: an usupressed 10" barrel in BO is LOUD- closer to your face. A suppressor would help but make it longer. The "Honey Badger" (300 Blackout developed by AAC) was a weapon developed to replace the MP5 while still using the AR platform. It's no M4, and it doesn't do distance very well either. In its purpose as a CQB platform with AR internals and mags, it might be a good choice for HD after all?

On the strong side, with the BO, you have versatility. You may tailor your projectile selection from 90 grains up to 220. It uses a re-sized .223/5.56 case. In HD, I would probably go 200 grain, suppressed, This would make it similar to a .45 PDW. Perhaps with the heavier suppressed load it will spread more in tissue and stop before exiting. Some people are keeping these as truck guns. They are portable, light, and filled with 30 round mags. If I had to engage multiple targets at close range, it's my go-to. Probably not a great SHTF weapon since ammo has to be made, but the military will have plenty of parent cases laying around.

It could be helpful to have both platforms, as I do. Decide how 300 BLK may fill a purpose that your SG does not.

All that considered, I think an earlier post talked about psychological effects of SGs. There's a reason so many Mil, LEOs and criminals use them, they are intimidating, reliable and easy.

Our 12 ga. wears an 18.5 barrel and a Hogue shortened stock, loaded cruiser ready with #4 Buck. It has a light on the end. Very maneuverable. What I like about it is the simple operation, gross motor manipulation vs. an AR charging handle,etc. A 3" chamber is much easier to see than any of my ARs. Besides the first grab of the handgun and flashlight, the Mossberg is next. There's not a lot of time to react when you are asleep and it's dark. The handgun is fastest.

That said,one should be getting to a SG or rifle as soon as possible, they are superior in suppressing threats. If Something goes "bump" around here, we'll gather everyone up and sit in the bed, with an ear for movement, with the 12ga. We're not going to go hunting around in the dark for bad guys. If they brought friends, it's Blackout time.

 

[Kevinslaterjr]

Safety First, how will this weapon be stored with kids around? Then, for security, the deterrence first approach is sensible. Next, make a plan. Keep the perps out with your security, grab a HG, grab the kids,retreat to safety and make a call. Long guns or SBR/SBS I'd do last. Drill with the family for your plan and make it a once a month thing.

Most important thing about all of this. You can have an entire arsenal of weapons to protect your house, but if you're the only one who knows how to react, in the end it means nothing.
IMO Any firearm is a good HD weapon in close quarters. With that being said, i see nothing wrong with the shotgun/hg combo as the HD setup. I have both my 12g and 9mm nearby for just such occasion