New member looking for some advice

[JeepHammer]

Been a gun owner for 30 years. Hunting rifles, pistols, shotguns. Never felt a REAL need for a civil defense weapon until now.

A quick Google search revealed that there is way too much info to process so I'd just like some recommendations from you experienced guys.

Not sure which caliber would be best for me. Will probably only shoot it 3 or 4 times a year. Would like ammo to be easily accessible and not super pricey.

I'm not a hobbyist, guns are just another tool to me. Don't need anything fancy, but do want good dependable quality.

So, what should I get?

16 years in the Marine Corps, Civilian Instructor, and NOT wanting to start a crap fight...

*IF* you want 'Home Security' consider any civilian shot gun from about 20 Ga up.
(Depends on your stature, smaller or frail folks might like a smaller bore.)

*IF* you are forced to use that firearm as a weapon (legal distinction) a 'Hunting' type shotgun gives you an advantage in court.
(No 'Black Gun' or 'Assault Rifle' stigma to overcome)

There is HUGE spectrum of ammunition available for shot guns, from rubber balls, bean bags & rock salt to 'Penetrators' that are advertised to defeat body armor.
Again, it's hard to beat what was already developed for hunting, slugs & 00 shot do serious damage anything they come into contact with, and since they are available about anywhere for hunting, they are easy to explain.

Most people find a shot gun easy to handle with little instruction, and functional with little practice, while delivering 'Knock Down' power AND a wide grouping of projectile(s), making hits on the target more likely.
For instance, 00 buck has 8 or 9 pellets, with a 5 round magazine, 8 pellets is 40 projectiles in the air VERY QUICKLY, 9 pellets is 45 projectiles just as fast, and this is with standard 00 loads, (not something like the big magnum loads).

Some people have issues with length, solved by using a shorter 'Slug' barrel, and by shorter stocks.
You can have a compact package, that doesn't bust the bank, and is 50 state legal quite easily this way.
It's not an 'All Situations' firearm, but then again, you aren't kicking doors in a combat zone or a tunnel rat, and this option allows for situational flexibility, particularly when you consider the speciality ammo available.

It's the old, tried & true option, discounted as 'Obsolete' by a lot of people, but it's still just as effective as it ever was.

 

[Trapper Jim]

16 years in the Marine Corps, Civilian Instructor, and NOT wanting to start a crap fight...

*IF* you want 'Home Security' consider any civilian shot gun from about 20 Ga up.
(Depends on your stature, smaller or frail folks might like a smaller bore.)

*IF* you are forced to use that firearm as a weapon (legal distinction) a 'Hunting' type shotgun gives you an advantage in court.
(No 'Black Gun' or 'Assault Rifle' stigma to overcome)

There is HUGE spectrum of ammunition available for shot guns, from rubber balls, bean bags & rock salt to 'Penetrators' that are advertised to defeat body armor.
Again, it's hard to beat what was already developed for hunting, slugs & 00 shot do serious damage anything they come into contact with, and since they are available about anywhere for hunting, they are easy to explain.

Most people find a shot gun easy to handle with little instruction, and functional with little practice, while delivering 'Knock Down' power AND a wide grouping of projectile(s), making hits on the target more likely.
For instance, 00 buck has 8 or 9 pellets, with a 5 round magazine, 8 pellets is 40 projectiles in the air VERY QUICKLY, 9 pellets is 45 projectiles just as fast, and this is with standard 00 loads, (not something like the big magnum loads).

Some people have issues with length, solved by using a shorter 'Slug' barrel, and by shorter stocks.
You can have a compact package, that doesn't bust the bank, and is 50 state legal quite easily this way.
It's not an 'All Situations' firearm, but then again, you aren't kicking doors in a combat zone or a tunnel rat, and this option allows for situational flexibility, particularly when you consider the speciality ammo available.

It's the old, tried & true option, discounted as 'Obsolete' by a lot of people, but it's still just as effective as it ever was.

yep. ARs aren’t your best choice for tiny slab Homes or apartments. AK’s work well in Russia. standard 870 compact with wood stock and 4 RD capacity config Best choice by far.

 

[Hohn]

Might be sacrilege to suggest it, but I think ARs are not a good choice for your typical 1-2 bad guy-in-home scenario.

However, if you happen to have a swarm of "protesters" traipsing through your yard and threatening your neighborhood, you'll want an AR or 4. With binary triggers. Or a SAW, if you happen to have one of those. Think "area denial" and you're on the right track.

I agree totally with Jeep that a "hunting" gun vs a "Tactical" gun is absolutely preferable if you should find yourself in court.

 

[Nickbau5]

AR pistols are one of the best options for HD, they are compact, have a good caliber that is often known to not over penetrate due to fragmenting, and able to equip any accessory on it you need. Shotguns are outdated for HD and risk more collateral damage with the spread if you're not fully on target and haven't patterned it, while an AR with a zero'd optic is much more reliable in these situations, no need to worry about short stroking or if you need a follow up shot, you have the issue with racking, or if it's a semi-auto shotgun you have the issues with load types being finicky.

End statement, ARs are the tops for home defense

 

[WelchyV90]

I run an AK with grip and RDS for HD. The main things you need to consider for your HD weapon are use case, what type of walls you have, and who all is in the home.

If you have children or others in the home do not use anything in a pistol caliber as those hold together through drywall where as faster moving rifle rounds with fragment. Another thing on pistol rounds level II armour is cheap and these rioters are coming out in level II and sometimes IIIA and IV.

You want something that is easy for you to learn to. ARs in a plentiful caliber are a good option. I personally go with AKs because j like the ergo and manual of arms on the platform much better but I believe the AR to be easier to learn.

Shotguns are alright against unarmoured targets but I would STRONGLY recommend you don't use one for HD as really only slugs are useful in that case (00 buck is okay but not great) and even then only slightly.

Your best bet is to get a rifle (or pistol with a brace) that fits your house. Small house with tight corners? 300blk 8.5 inch AR with brace. Little more open house with space in the hallways to the doors? 5.56 in a mid-length (16in) barrel (please use good ammo like Mk 262 or equivalent or you won't see good performance). You just live out in a field? AR-10 with a 20 inch barrel.

As for recommendations on specific purchases, you don't need to spend 2-3k to gucchi out your AR. Your best bet is a mid priced (600-1200) AR or even better if you are comfortable one you build yourself. Spend the rest of the money to stack ammo deep, like 5-10k rounds deep. Then you need to go to the range with it, a lot. You also need to train like you would fight. Don't spend less on "training ammo", run your good ammo because different ammo types will have different performance and different quirks you need to be ready for. Training like this will get you use to handling, and manual of arms on your weapon.

One last note. Get a forward grip (only on rifles, putting one on a pistol makes it an NFA item) and FOR SURE a light. You don't want to shoot your drunk neighbor because you couldn't I.d. the target. That should cover everything but if you have any questions just ask and good luck.

 

[nipprdog]

Shotguns are outdated for HD

 

[2A_Tom]

Shotguns are outdated

 

[Nickbau5]

In the modern day when ARs and pistols are abundant, shotguns are the old guard that people still cling to. If you don't have it patterned and an incorrect choke, you risk pellets missing the target, "BUT MUH 8 PROJECTILES MEAN IT COUNTS AS 8 SHOTS FROM ANOTHER GUN", as some here have mentioned. Or are you in the camp of "all you have to do it rack a shotgun and the baddies will go running" or the "bird, buck, bird, buck rest of the way" camp? as mentioned above, slugs are really the only decent option for shotguns, but even then not as good as a rifle/pistol AR.

Shotguns are the way of the old, and people that push them on new gun owners are some of the most dangerous people in the practice of gun ownership, because most of the time they're pushing full 00 buck or slugs onto people who have never handled a gun and will get knocked back by them, or they claim that you only need to rack the pump. ARs are perfect for HD due to the rounds fragmenting in drywall, should you miss, and not risking over penetration of your target. Plus you can have an AR pistol under 16in that is more maneuverable in your home and often with more options for attachments than your average shotgun.

 

[VERT]

Somewhere, somehow there are a lot of valid points in this thread but some context is missing. I will copy a link to another thread and between the two maybe somebody can pick out the valid information:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/long-guns/481836-looking-some-shotgun-answers.html

 

[VERT]

Maybe shotguns are outdated? I mean ARs have been around since the 50s so those are pretty modern. I don’t think I am that old, regardless I feel fine with either a 1911 or a Glock on my hip and a shotgun or AR slung on my shoulder. I suppose we all get to hung up on the weapon or gear. Since this thread is about to jump off the tracks anyway I suppose what is the harm with some random thoughts.

1) shotguns are not for the novice. What I should say is defensive shotguns for personal protection are not for the novice. Sad truth are ARs are simply easier to use and shoot well.
2) An AR with proper ammunition will penetrate less barriers. That can either be good or bad depending on context.
3) Shotguns are a thinking mans weapon and offer a lot of versatility depending on the load.
4) ARs in the home will be loud. Everything is loud but AR pistols are loud loud.
5) Shotguns with the proper load at the proper distance ends fights. Now not later. So in the context of making Dude stop doing bad things they provide an immediate solution.
6) Depending on where you live the shotgun might be seen as less menacing. Although that shouldn’t be a problem in most of Indiana.
7) ARs are more maneuverable. But most of us are better off limiting our movement. Context, I get it. Every situation is different.

 

[churchmouse]

HD. Where to start.

We have "Levels" of HD. The main and 1st go to is a 10mm 1911 with a light on it. There is a 45ACP at the ready as well if we are woken up by something going bump or boom in the night. A handgun being the easiest and most muscle memory ready to use when pulled from a deep sleep. There is a pistol AR close at hand but I will not pick it up unless we feel the situation merits. There are ways to decide this if you have a solid plan.

The spouse has a CZ Shadow at the ready.

If I am forced to go outside the AR comes into play.

I will never tell someone not to get an AR. But a shotgun for the beginner could be a push especially if the lady will be using it as well. Takes some practice but that's JMHO. We have moved away from shotguns for our own reasons.

What ever you end up with use it. Practice with it and never stop as long as you own it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm not a hobbyist, guns are just another tool to me.

Stop right there. You have answered your own question.

Think of guns as hand tools. What is the best tool? Well, Freeman, do I need to saw a board, or drive a nail, or pry the lid off a paint can, or what?

Exactly. Guns are merely hand tools and selection is mission driven. You select the tool for the job, right? You wouldn't pick a shovel to drive a nail, same with guns.

Shooting up tin cans? Oh, man, you want a .22 pistol or rifle.

Shooting coyotes, crows, varmits? Bolt action .223 with nice optic.

Point defense at conversation range? Shotgun

General fighting, maybe fixed, maybe mobile/meeting engagement? Carbine.

Self-defense at the grocery store, restaurant, out in public when you don't expect a fight? Handgun.

How did you understand tools? Right, someone taught you. Same with guns.

Seek training, let your software drive your selection of hardware.

 

[KJQ6945]

Stop right there. You have answered your own question.

Think of guns as hand tools. What is the best tool? Well, Freeman, do I need to saw a board, or drive a nail, or pry the lid off a paint can, or what?

Exactly. Guns are merely hand tools and selection is mission driven. You select the tool for the job, right? You wouldn't pick a shovel to drive a nail, same with guns.

Shooting up tin cans? Oh, man, you want a .22 pistol or rifle.

Shooting coyotes, crows, varmits? Bolt action .223 with nice optic.

Point defense at conversation range? Shotgun

General fighting, maybe fixed, maybe mobile/meeting engagement? Carbine.

Self-defense at the grocery store, restaurant, out in public when you don't expect a fight? Handgun.

How did you understand tools? Right, someone taught you. Same with guns.

Seek training, let your software drive your selection of hardware.

100% this!

 

[RaoulHayduke]

Been a gun owner for 30 years. Hunting rifles, pistols, shotguns. Never felt a REAL need for a civil defense weapon until now.

A quick Google search revealed that there is way too much info to process so I'd just like some recommendations from you experienced guys.

Not sure which caliber would be best for me. Will probably only shoot it 3 or 4 times a year. Would like ammo to be easily accessible and not super pricey.

I'm not a hobbyist, guns are just another tool to me. Don't need anything fancy, but do want good dependable quality.

So, what should I get?

I'm going to echo the prevailing 5.56 AR comments, but with the addendum of picking up a swappable .22LR conversion unit to go along with it.

No matter what you choose, BUY MAGS AND AMMO! However much you think you need, triple it.

 

[WelchyV90]

I'm going to echo the prevailing 5.56 AR comments, but with the addendum of picking up a swappable .22LR conversion unit to go along with it.

No matter what you choose, BUY MAGS AND AMMO! However much you think you need, triple it.

Good advice with this on buying ammo and mags and triple. I keep a battle load (11 mags or 331 rounds total) ready to go for my defense rifle. 1000 rounds minimum is generally a good idea if you can afford it but stack DEEP because if stuff goes south you cant just go to the gun store for more ammo. 10k is a good "I have no ammo point" if your budget can support it.

 

[MountieHoo]

Good advice with this on buying ammo and mags and triple. I keep a battle load (11 mags or 331 rounds total) ready to go for my defense rifle. 1000 rounds minimum is generally a good idea if you can afford it but stack DEEP because if stuff goes south you cant just go to the gun store for more ammo. 10k is a good "I have no ammo point" if your budget can support it.

If you're going to go this route Palmetto State Armory is great for this.
You can get a complete upper and complete lower, push 2 pins together and save on the 11% excise tax on all complete rifles in the USA. Not all companies pass on the savings to their customers like this but PSA does.
Furthermore, on the PSA lower you can get a complete 22LR upper to mate to the lower and you're good to go with a dedicated 22LR barrel with the appropriate rifling and you won't dirty your personal defense weapon with 22LR like you would if you were just using a CMMG conversion kit in your 223/556 AR.
If you don't want to go with a complete palmetto state armory build and get a complete AR from somewhere else I would still suggest if you want to train on the cheap with 22LR you should still look into the 22LR AR upper.

 

[WelchyV90]

If you're going to go this route Palmetto State Armory is great for this.
You can get a complete upper and complete lower, push 2 pins together and save on the 11% excise tax on all complete rifles in the USA. Not all companies pass on the savings to their customers like this but PSA does.
Furthermore, on the PSA lower you can get a complete 22LR upper to mate to the lower and you're good to go with a dedicated 22LR barrel with the appropriate rifling and you won't dirty your personal defense weapon with 22LR like you would if you were just using a CMMG conversion kit in your 223/556 AR.
If you don't want to go with a complete palmetto state armory build and get a complete AR from somewhere else I would still suggest if you want to train on the cheap with 22LR you should still look into the 22LR AR upper.

Good advice on the PSA rifles since they can be good but I am gonna have to disagree with training with .22. You should train how you fight because ballistics, handling and other factors will make them run different.

 

[SSE]

BOY O BOY, Lots of good advice, so much I did not read it all. Check out Rual King here in Lafayette. Sometimes they have the S&W M&P Sport on sale dirt cheap and it is hard to beat.

 

[hANNAbONE]

Stop right there. You have answered your own question.

Think of guns as hand tools. What is the best tool? Well, Freeman, do I need to saw a board, or drive a nail, or pry the lid off a paint can, or what?

Exactly. Guns are merely hand tools and selection is mission driven. You select the tool for the job, right? You wouldn't pick a shovel to drive a nail, same with guns.

Shooting up tin cans? Oh, man, you want a .22 pistol or rifle.

Shooting coyotes, crows, varmits? Bolt action .223 with nice optic.

Point defense at conversation range? Shotgun

General fighting, maybe fixed, maybe mobile/meeting engagement? Carbine.

Self-defense at the grocery store, restaurant, out in public when you don't expect a fight? Handgun.

How did you understand tools? Right, someone taught you. Same with guns.

Seek training, let your software drive your selection of hardware.

This ^^^ pretty much sums up what your next move is...Now GO.!!