New Report on Police Militarization via The Daily Beast

[Denny347]

i drive a truck. which more drivers die by far every year than cops.

Dying because your inability to control your rig is not really the same as active human aggression. We all know how biased you are towards LEO's. You don't like us...we get that. The feeling is mutual.

 

[TMU317]

i drive a truck. which more drivers die by far every year than cops. and if cops were smart enough to tell the difference between a moving vehicle and a parked one there would not have been a problem. i can look at the wheels and tell if a vehicle is moving. but i guess its not that simple for some people.

I am still not sure how you are equating "dangerous" only with death.

According to the FBI, from 2001-2010, 514 police officers were "feloniously killed" performing their job, while 718 were "accidentally killed". During that same period of time, 586,674 police officers were assaulted. How many truck drivers are attacked for simply doing their job?

 

[thebishopp]

not to sound all foil hat sounding but in my opinion the reason they want to militarize the police force is the government has realized that our troops would not obey orders that are unconstitutional and have in the past refused such unlawful orders were the police force and other agency will blindly obey order given to them remember they are the law its up to the court system and the government for you to answer too to protest or claim your a good citizen there just doing there job and enforcing the law.

have a police force militarized and willing to follow any order under the the word law you can control greater numbers.............
they can't get that from the military in domestic operation

Just curious... can you tell me when a large group of military personnel disobeyed orders that were "unconstitutional"? ... and if you can find such a group, then a case where it actually prevented the objective from being carried out anyway by other military units? Not trying to be "snarky" I would like to know because I only know of one incident and that involved (if I recall correctly) a Utah NG unit in New Orleans. The thing is that they were never actually given an "order" to confiscate the guns. In fact while the SGT who was interviewed said he thought the majority of the unit agreed that they would not follow such an order, many were silent (because they didn't want to "make waves" due to their "security clearances") and he was the only one that actually went to talk to their captain. Every other unit that was given the order to disarm or assist the local pd's in disarming the citizenry did so.

Also interesting to note that most of the LEO's involved in those confiscations along with the military didn't seem to have any problem obeying those "unconstitutional" (as ruled later by the courts) orders.

 

[public servant]

How many truck drivers are attacked for simply doing their job?

47. But only because they refused to pay the lot lizard.

 

[fireblade]

Good Lord, you make us sound like a bunch of idiots. Thanks. 100% untrue and fabricated fear.

Cops Ready for War - Yahoo! News

Are police becoming militarized? - CNN.com

Seattle Police Chiec Apologizes for Cops Mocking Victim | Video | TheBlaze.com

Cartoonist to Face Jail for Mocking Police | Video | TheBlaze.com


Minnesota Man Craig Brown Faces Jail For Feeding Birds in Own Backyard | Video | TheBlaze.com


Georgia Cops Shut Down Girls’ Lemonade Stand for Lack of Business License | Video | TheBlaze.com

Homeless Man Kelly Thomas Died After Violent Police Beating | Video | TheBlaze.com





really i have worked around a lot of officers and agency's i now how bad the problem is............
when i was a child we all respected the police you ask kids now in this generation they fear the police.

there are some outstanding peace keepers out there who are great officers but there is a lot ..... of bad ones

100% untrue you say sir. there is a lot of power happy, chip on shoulder officers who would blindly obey orders because they feel they are the law ........... there is a reason our police force should not be militarized as per our founding fathers........... me and my troops will never support it we are the military not them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdqARRoWC0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pirx_21oIo0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVKXI2osGk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDuAYH9SOSM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePirEj4x68k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d55P3n9z2dI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r0l1jG20rw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWnqcQB_L_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYEfpAby6Io

 

[fireblade]

Just curious... can you tell me when a large group of military personnel disobeyed orders that were "unconstitutional"? ... and if you can find such a group, then a case where it actually prevented the objective from being carried out anyway by other military units? Not trying to be "snarky" I would like to know because I only know of one incident and that involved (if I recall correctly) a Utah NG unit in New Orleans. The thing is that they were never actually given an "order" to confiscate the guns. In fact while the SGT who was interviewed said he thought the majority of the unit agreed that they would not follow such an order, many were silent (because they didn't want to "make waves" due to their "security clearances") and he was the only one that actually went to talk to their captain. Every other unit that was given the order to disarm or assist the local pd's in disarming the citizenry did so.

Also interesting to note that most of the LEO's involved in those confiscations along with the military didn't seem to have any problem obeying those "unconstitutional" (as ruled later by the courts) orders.

well sir i been in the military a very long time i was there during Andrew i have patrolled American streets as a military man past post here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...2951-national_guard_revolt-3.html#post2403867

as for Katrina all the weapons confiscation was done by Leo's not any military personnel period the first army who was in charge of the military response refused to give the orders saying it was a civil matter and not there concern. and i have personally refuse unlawful orders and know of alot of other soldiers in deployment who have it happen more then you think most solider take there oath to the constitution very serious:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

 

[thebishopp]

I am still not sure how you are equating "dangerous" only with death.

According to the FBI, from 2001-2010, 514 police officers were "feloniously killed" performing their job, while 718 were "accidentally killed". During that same period of time, 586,674 police officers were assaulted. How many truck drivers are attacked for simply doing their job?

Trying to "keep it real" here as far as the "statistics" go. Not trying to get in to the "my job is more dangerous than yours argument here" which I thought the original topic was "Police Militarization". There is no denying that law enforcement is "dangerous" because of the situations that an LEO has to deal with as part of the "job".

Back to the "statistics":

That's a 9 year spread, of course it's going to look "high". But to be fair, if you wanted to do that you would also have to add the number of officers employed every year in relation to the number of "assaults" since you are adding up the assaulted for the entire 9 year spread.

If the average officers employed per year was around 500,000 (I know it has gone up every year in that 9 year spread but rather than going back each year I have decided to use an "average" number) multiplied by 9 you get 4.5 million officers employed.

This gives you an "assaulted" percentage of 13 percent. Now this is not subtracting the "assaults" that did not result in "injury" which probably includes things like being grabbed or being pushed. Actual "injury" assaults will be a lower percentage.

Let's look at 2010.

According to the 2010 table HERE .

Now, allowing for any minor mathematical errors on my part (rounding up in most cases);

Out of 532,395, roughly 10 percent were "assaulted" (53,469).

Of those "assaulted" 26.1 percent actually sustained "injuries" (13,956). This means that out of 532,395 officers, 2.6 percent were actually "injured" in an "assault".

Now I am going to assume that any officer who was "assaulted" with a firearm, bladed weapon, or "other" (non-personal) was actually injured so we apply the 3.4 percent the feds say to the 53,469 and that gets us an "officer assaulted with a firearm, injured, but still alive stat" of 1,818. 1.7 for bladed weapons gives us 917 injured. 13.1 "other weapon" gives us 7004 injured.

So it goes like this for Assaults with injury:

1. Non personal (hands, feet, etc.) - 4217
2. Firearm - 1818
3. Bladed - 917
4. "Other" - 7004

56 were killed "feloniously" (55 with a firearm) or .01 percent of officer employed.

So in summary.

In 2010 there was:

1. A .01 percent chance that if you were employed as a police officer you would have been killed "feloniously" with a firearm.

2. A 10 percent chance of being "assaulted".

3. If you were one of the 10 percent then:

a. you had a 2.6 percent chance of being injured by either a "Personal weapon" (hands, feet, etc.), A Firearm, Bladed weapon, or "Other Weapon".

 

[thebishopp]

well sir i been in the military a very long time i was there during Andrew i have patrolled American streets as a military man past post here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...2951-national_guard_revolt-3.html#post2403867

as for Katrina all the weapons confiscation was done by Leo's not any military personnel period the first army who was in charge of the military response refused to give the orders saying it was a civil matter and not there concern. and i have personally refuse unlawful orders and know of alot of other soldiers in deployment who have it happen more then you think most solider take there oath to the constitution very serious:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

I am former military myself, and former law enforcement. I was working as an armed private contractor in New Orleans after Katrina and then Rita. The facts do not support your stance. The police aided by National Guard troops did disarm citizens. They went door to door in some neighborhoods (and not just the "bad" areas). All weapons confiscated were supposedly turned over to the NOPD.

While I share your opinion about the oath, not all military people feel that way. In fact I was in an argument on another thread where a fellow (military) who stated that obeying the lawful orders of your superiors was your duty and part of your oath. Not a problem except when he explained what he meant by "lawful" orders and that he didn't want his "brothers in arms" making the decision if an order was constitutional or not. He seemed to believe that as along as there was a "law" that the order was automatically "constitutional" and that it was for a higher power to decide if it was or was not later, AFTER they had already carried out the orders (the soldier in the field was not allowed to make that determination).

 

[fireblade]

well thebishopp i wasn't there ..... i have seen the 1 army orders for military personal to not take weapons it a civil matter for the LEO ..... but i wasn't there .... i was playing in the sand at the time ......it could have happen in the very start ....all account from military i have talk too and review of standing order at that time show most weapons confiscated was done by LEO but they could have been assisted by National Guard troops ...........

as for refusing unlawful orders it happen alot..... i been deployed 7 times ......with civilians on the battlefield and the enemy dressed like them ....its hard, one time i man came running up to are RG-31 i thought i seen a land mine in he's hands i gave the order for my gunner to take him out ....me gunner seen it was a hup cap and used a laser on him in turn the man stopped. that Sgt. did not obey my order because it was unlawful order the man wasn't armed and he had a better view.

We had a KIA in our patrol it was victor 2 driver when we got back in the wire the vehicle was needed for another mission so the battle Capt. ordered me to get one of my men to dirty wash (mean clean human remains and blood out so its mission ready) i reminded the capt. that there a standing order that no platoon personal who took a KIA are the ones to do the dirty wash. That Capt. said he had no one else and the other platoon was asleep. getting ready for mission . I refused the order i ordered my men to there rack after incident reports were done they were clearly upset from losing a brother from are platoon. I threw the Capt. a rag and told him if you want the vehicle you best get to work or find some one and went to support my men.......... i can give hundred of just personal examples.................yes there are some who would blindly follow order but there more then ever who would not follow orders that are unlawful of go against the Constitution we swear to

 

[TMU317]

Trying to "keep it real" here as far as the "statistics" go. Not trying to get in to the "my job is more dangerous than yours argument here" which I thought the original topic was "Police Militarization". There is no denying that law enforcement is "dangerous" because of the situations that an LEO has to deal with as part of the "job".

Yea, same here. I posted the "statistics" in response to a request for a reminder on "how dangerous police work is". Not once did I attempt to argue "my job is more dangerous than yours", either. Actually, I am not even a police officer, so it isn't my job. Just posting facts.

Cops Killed in Line of Duty Up in 2011; Guns Blamed on average thirty thousand people are killed by guns in this country every year. according to this article 62 of them were cops. someone remind me again how dangerous police work is

You are correct, the original topic was in fact "Police Militarization". Again, someone asked for a reminder about the dangers of police work, and I simply posted the statistics. I even posted a link, which leads you HERE, which breaks the numbers down for you. Not trying to mislead anyone, just trying to "keep it real".

 

[thebishopp]

well thebishopp i wasn't there ..... i have seen the 1 army orders for military personal to not take weapons it a civil matter for the LEO ..... but i wasn't there .... i was playing in the sand at the time ......it could have happen in the very start ....all account from military i have talk too and review of standing order at that time show most weapons confiscated was done by LEO but they could have been assisted by National Guard troops ...........

as for refusing unlawful orders it happen alot..... i been deployed 7 times ......with civilians on the battlefield and the enemy dressed like them ....its hard, one time i man came running up to are RG-31 i thought i seen a land mine in he's hands i gave the order for my gunner to take him out ....me gunner seen it was a hup cap and used a laser on him in turn the man stopped. that Sgt. did not obey my order because it was unlawful order the man wasn't armed and he had a better view.

We had a KIA in our patrol it was victor 2 driver when we got back in the wire the vehicle was needed for another mission so the battle Capt. ordered me to get one of my men to dirty wash (mean clean human remains and blood out so its mission ready) i reminded the capt. that there a standing order that no platoon personal who took a KIA are the ones to do the dirty wash. That Capt. said he had no one else and the other platoon was asleep. getting ready for mission . I refused the order i ordered my men to there rack after incident reports were done they were clearly upset from losing a brother from are platoon. I threw the Capt. a rag and told him if you want the vehicle you best get to work or find some one and went to support my men.......... i can give hundred of just personal examples.................yes there are some who would blindly follow order but there more then ever who would not follow orders that are unlawful of go against the Constitution we swear to

It is good to hear that there are still "good" soldiers out there. I just hope there are enough of them if and when the times comes. From what I've been hearing though there are fewer and fewer (I left active duty in 94 my cousin who enlisted when I did in 91 stayed in and I have not been hearing good things about the "new" soldier).

 

[Denny347]

Cops Ready for War - Yahoo! News

Are police becoming militarized? - CNN.com

Seattle Police Chiec Apologizes for Cops Mocking Victim | Video | TheBlaze.com

Cartoonist to Face Jail for Mocking Police | Video | TheBlaze.com


Minnesota Man Craig Brown Faces Jail For Feeding Birds in Own Backyard | Video | TheBlaze.com


Georgia Cops Shut Down Girls’ Lemonade Stand for Lack of Business License | Video | TheBlaze.com

Homeless Man Kelly Thomas Died After Violent Police Beating | Video | TheBlaze.com





really i have worked around a lot of officers and agency's i now how bad the problem is............
when i was a child we all respected the police you ask kids now in this generation they fear the police.

there are some outstanding peace keepers out there who are great officers but there is a lot ..... of bad ones

100% untrue you say sir. there is a lot of power happy, chip on shoulder officers who would blindly obey orders because they feel they are the law ........... there is a reason our police force should not be militarized as per our founding fathers........... me and my troops will never support it we are the military not them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdqARRoWC0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pirx_21oIo0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVKXI2osGk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDuAYH9SOSM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePirEj4x68k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d55P3n9z2dI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r0l1jG20rw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWnqcQB_L_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYEfpAby6Io

Sigh, another one huh? This site is like a magnet for you guys I guess.

 

[thebishopp]

Yea, same here. I posted the "statistics" in response to a request for a reminder on "how dangerous police work is". Not once did I attempt to argue "my job is more dangerous than yours", either. Actually, I am not even a police officer, so it isn't my job. Just posting facts.



You are correct, the original topic was in fact "Police Militarization". Again, someone asked for a reminder about the dangers of police work, and I simply posted the statistics. I even posted a link, which leads you HERE, which breaks the numbers down for you. Not trying to mislead anyone, just trying to "keep it real".

No problem Lots of good info on that link.

In truth, according to actual statistics, police work is NOT the most dangerous job out there.

Interesting article HERE

The top two being:

Loggers averaging 91.9 deaths for 100,000 loggers. The top being fishermen with a rate of 116 deaths per 100,000 fishermen and related.


Note that this does not include injuries (the article does not cover that) but I'd be surprised if there were not quite a few injuries that did not result in death in these jobs, just not many from person on person violence. Note that police/sheriffs are number 9 on the list with an average of 18 deaths per 100k (total of 133 with a bit more than half being "transportation incidents").

Now "statistics" only show what is actually happening. They do not help ease your mind when you are "on the job". At any given moment you might become part of the small percentage that don't make it home that night in which case knowing how slim that chance is does not help you one bit. As a well known bumper sticker says "Sh*t happens".

I will say that after looking at the "statistics", percentage wise, I would be more worried doing any of the other jobs higher on the list than "police officer / sheriff".

Now all that being said, and trying to get back on topic...

Law Enforcement has been a para-military type organization for awhile (not always mind you) so I would say they have been "militarized" for some time now. I do not see anything wrong with Law Enforcement being equipped with assault rifles, or any other military type weapons for situations in which they may need them... that being said, I also don't see a problem with any U.S. Citizen also being able to possess the same type of weaponry.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I liked it when they use to dress nice.

 

[drillsgt]

It is good to hear that there are still "good" soldiers out there. I just hope there are enough of them if and when the times comes. From what I've been hearing though there are fewer and fewer (I left active duty in 94 my cousin who enlisted when I did in 91 stayed in and I have not been hearing good things about the "new" soldier).

I remember my first day at army CID school, the instructor said, "...we've got some good news...", and one of the students responded, "...they've suspended posse commitatus!?". It went downhill from there.

 

[thebishopp]

I remember my first day at army CID school, the instructor said, "...we've got some good news...", and one of the students responded, "...they've suspended posse commitatus!?". It went downhill from there.

Lol.

 

[88GT]

Cops Ready for War - Yahoo! News

Are police becoming militarized? - CNN.com

Seattle Police Chiec Apologizes for Cops Mocking Victim | Video | TheBlaze.com

Cartoonist to Face Jail for Mocking Police | Video | TheBlaze.com


Minnesota Man Craig Brown Faces Jail For Feeding Birds in Own Backyard | Video | TheBlaze.com


Georgia Cops Shut Down Girls’ Lemonade Stand for Lack of Business License | Video | TheBlaze.com

Homeless Man Kelly Thomas Died After Violent Police Beating | Video | TheBlaze.com





really i have worked around a lot of officers and agency's i now how bad the problem is............
when i was a child we all respected the police you ask kids now in this generation they fear the police.

there are some outstanding peace keepers out there who are great officers but there is a lot ..... of bad ones

100% untrue you say sir. there is a lot of power happy, chip on shoulder officers who would blindly obey orders because they feel they are the law ........... there is a reason our police force should not be militarized as per our founding fathers........... me and my troops will never support it we are the military not them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdqARRoWC0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pirx_21oIo0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVKXI2osGk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDuAYH9SOSM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePirEj4x68k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d55P3n9z2dI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r0l1jG20rw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWnqcQB_L_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYEfpAby6Io

Rambone??? Is that you?

 

[KG1]

Rambone??? Is that you?

I lol'd. He's sure enough got the link thing down.

 

[UncleMike]

Sigh, another one huh? This site is like a magnet for you guys I guess.

"Some people" here have been busy recruiting like thinking dolts to join here.

 

[fireblade]

lol i don't who Rambone is but if he believe in the constitution, and not a militarized police force i like him..........


What i think is really sad is i have been all over this world and have seen militarized police force in other government enforcing some not so nice laws on there people...........

How sad some are willing to except a military police force in a place that should be the land of the free ......


30 years ago if i told some one we would have laws like that are in the patriot acts, TSA searches at airports,militarized police force, more gun control laws, etc. they would have laughed at you............

I have bleed and have had countless friends die in wars for this country , just as the other soldiers before us........... so Americans to remain free and have there rights and have a land of the free, it truly is a dishonor to all who have died for this great nation to see our freedoms slowly ever so slowly be striped away as i have seen in other nation one of the first steps is a militarized police force......