New to the carry optics game...

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  • mammynun

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    My experience with pistols and MRDS

    Here's where I'm coming from: I'm 56 and have been very nearsighted all my life. I now wear progressive lens glasses. I've taken John McPhee's pistol classes 5 times and his carbine class twice.

    My first experience with a MRDS was at an NFA Day (thanks again Lovemywoods!) and I believe it was an M&P 45 with an Osprey and an RMR. Having very minimal pistol training at that point it was an unsatisfying experience... I had to search for the dot before and after each shot and the dot was constantly in motion. Over the years of training with John and his video diagnostics it became clear that I was having vision issues. The condensed version is that in order for me to focus on the front sight I had to lean my head back to utilize the bottom of my glasses progressive lenses which threw off my stance. The net result was that, in John's opinion, I was an excellent candidate to switch to a MRDS. He let me know that if I went in this direction that I could expect to have to work on the consistency of my presentation/draw stroke to be able to reliably acquire the dot. He made sure to tell my wife (who has attended four of his pistol classes with me) not to give me any crap about getting a slide milled ;)

    So last year I bought an FN 509T and put an RMR on it. John was correct; I was initially a little slower with the RMR. But 6 years of training with John's guidance (I missed his 2019 classes) had put me well ahead of where I was at that NFA Day. By my 3rd range trip I was objectively better; the timer doesn't lie.

    My take on carry optics is that they're the way to go, I'll never buy another EDC that doesn't support an optic out of the box. Yes, consistency in presentation is critical to quickly pick up the dot... but I can train for that. I cannot train my "old eyes" to focus. I can shoot with both eyes open, which I could never do with before as my dominant eye wasn't that dominant.

    IMO carry optics are the way to go in general, and particularly if your "genetic eyebox" is too short to focus on the front sight. An RDS on a pistol gives you all the advantages of an RDS on a rifle, and you could argue that the scale of pistol distances makes them even more appropriate.

    YMMV
     

    wtburnette

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    Was just checking out the CZ OR versions. Looks like a variety of plates to accommodate various optics either out or available in the future?

    Is there good info on what optics share the same footprint? I think the Sig Xcompact I just picked up will handle either Romeo01Pro or the Delta Point Pro. Just wasn't sure if there are others that share the same footprint/bolt pattern.

    Only one I know for sure is the RMR plate also works for the Holosun 507C. That's all of my knowledge on the subject.
     

    dung

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    Springer precision has plates that will allow you to run an RMR on the optic ready Sigs. At Shot Show 2020 Sig also annouced that they would start adding mounting options for RMR footprints. It sounded like there would be a gap front to back, but that they didnt have any problems with them. They were wishy washy on when that would happen though.....maybe June/July. Basically, they figured it would be around the time the taccops model hits the market.

    I really really want to get into Carry optics. I love my CZ75b, but don't really want to get it milled. Having cross eye dominance and astigmatisms a PITA and the handful of red dots I have shot make life much easier for me. Despite having a starburst for a point of aim, it is still very easy for me to pick up.
     

    JCSR

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    Only one I know for sure is the RMR plate also works for the Holosun 507C. That's all of my knowledge on the subject.

    I'm using the CZ Custom plate on my P-10F OR. This is why I went with that plate.
    "I am using a Holosun 507C red dot sight with the CZ custom aluminum optic mount. This combo weighs 1.75oz. The stock slide mounted plate that covers the optic mounting portion also weighs exactly 1.75oz. This means that removing the plate to add an optic doesn't change the overall weight of the slide which is really cool."
     

    wtburnette

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    I'm using the CZ Custom plate on my P-10F OR. This is why I went with that plate.
    "I am using a Holosun 507C red dot sight with the CZ custom aluminum optic mount. This combo weighs 1.75oz. The stock slide mounted plate that covers the optic mounting portion also weighs exactly 1.75oz. This means that removing the plate to add an optic doesn't change the overall weight of the slide which is really cool."

    Yep, same here. I was going to wait until I could scrape together enough for an RMR, but when the Holosun went on sale, I figured I could start with that to make sure it worked for me. If not, I can sell it and use the proceeds to get an RMR and still use the same mounting plate.
     

    gmcttr

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    I'm just starting out with pistol mounted red dots but I find the 507C's cirlce/dot easier to get in the window and keep it there than with my RMR. This is simply because the large circle comes into view sooner than a dot does. This may not be true after I have spent enough time with them to perfect my presentation.
     

    JCSR

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    I'm just starting out with pistol mounted red dots but I find the 507C's cirlce/dot easier to get in the window and keep it there than with my RMR. This is simply because the large circle comes into view sooner than a dot does. This may not be true after I have spent enough time with them to perfect my presentation.

    Same here, last year I used a Venom 6moa and found myself chasing the dot often. The Holosun circle/dot is much easier to track for me.
     

    mammynun

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    I'm just starting out with pistol mounted red dots but I find the 507C's cirlce/dot easier to get in the window and keep it there than with my RMR. This is simply because the large circle comes into view sooner than a dot does. This may not be true after I have spent enough time with them to perfect my presentation.

    Same here, last year I used a Venom 6moa and found myself chasing the dot often. The Holosun circle/dot is much easier to track for me.

    I think you'll find that as you get more comfortable with RDS's on pistols you'll not need a large(r) dot. My RMR has a 6.5moa dot and I think I could easily get by with a smaller dot now.
     

    bwframe

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    Chasing the RDS is certainly upping my dry fire. I've been smoothing out my "new" Glock triggers quite nicely. I swap the MOS/RDS slide back and forth between the G19 that it came on and the G45 that I'm planning to run the most.

    riverman67 and I swapped a few txt's this morning. He was very helpful in a lot of ways, but a light bulb really came on when he mentioned using Dot Torture as a dry fire target. RDS or not, why didn't I do this years ago? :dunno:
     

    cedartop

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    Chasing the RDS is certainly upping my dry fire. I've been smoothing out my "new" Glock triggers quite nicely. I swap the MOS/RDS slide back and forth between the G19 that it came on and the G45 that I'm planning to run the most.

    riverman67 and I swapped a few txt's this morning. He was very helpful in a lot of ways, but a light bulb really came on when he mentioned using Dot Torture as a dry fire target. RDS or not, why didn't I do this years ago? :dunno:

    Yes dot torture does make a good dry fire drill. Gabe White has some good trigger control dry fire drills as well though they are not RDS specific I find them helpful.
     

    obijohn

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    What are our experiences with water and the RDS?

    mine worked fine wet but the water drops left on the lense made things a bit dicey. Wiped the lense, good to go.

    Carry and shooting in the rain?

    as above.

    Dunking in the lake?

    No worries with mine.

    Imbedded
     

    bwframe

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    Thanks obijohn! Good to know it is workable. I tend to sweat all over my sidearms in the summer, on top of spending a fair amount of time in the kayak.
     

    cedartop

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    What are our experiences with water and the RDS?

    Carry and shooting in the rain?

    Dunking in the lake?

    Water can be an issue on the open emitter type units. Which are most of them currently. During matches where it is raining I keep the hood on my DPP until it is time to shoot. In classes where it is heavy rain I have had issues. I have come to the determination, right or wrong, that my gunfight will most likely be a short term affair and with my gun being concealed prior to the event, a little moisture shouldn't be a problem.
     

    bwframe

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    Thanks again cedartop!

    Now I'm curious and want to experiment to see how much water builds on the unit and is blasted off with the action of the slide. Also how much moisture blocks the view of the irons.
     

    bwframe

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    Come out at shoot Steel at Riley with us tomorrow and you can chase the dot around.

    Thank you for the invite, my friend. Not quite ready for tomorrow, but I'm planning on spending a lot more time at Riley this year. I'm hoping to see you around for sure. :yesway:
     

    EyeCarry

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    Thank you for the invite, my friend. Not quite ready for tomorrow, but I'm planning on spending a lot more time at Riley this year. I'm hoping to see you around for sure. :yesway:
    Hey bw, don't forget to contact me if you want to ride share. ( Or mc riding buddy )
     
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