No Finger Needed, Holster Warning

[sj kahr k40]

I don't like depending on external safeties; I place the responsibility for the safety and handling of my weapon directly on my shoulders, and I carry a Glock. I don't want some safety in my way when I need my weapon.

+1, except I carry a Kahr, DB380 and a LCR

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I don't like depending on external safeties; I place the responsibility for the safety and handling of my weapon directly on my shoulders, and I carry a Glock. I don't want some safety in my way when I need my weapon.

So... How do you get around the "Safe Action" trigger blade? Is that not an external safety device that can fail? I have seen them jam before.

BTW, my understanding of the article was not that he was reholstering, but that he shifted his weight while seated and was using a left handed holster incorrectly as well as it being worn out.

 

[BlueEagle]

I should rephrase; I don't like safety mechanisms that are easily manipulated into a position that will inhibit my ability to fire my weapon. While any safety CAN fail in such a way as to disable the weapon, I have more confidence in the Glock system than I do in most others.

In my opinion, (I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this one,) "safeties" kill almost more people than guns do every year.

1. "I thought the safety was on."

2. "The safety WAS on, and it still went off."

3. "I couldn't turn off the safety in time."

If I'm going to carry any gun at all, I'm being responsible for the safety of myself and of everyone around me, with respect to that weapon. While external manual mechanical safeties can and surely have saved lives, they have also taken many. I prefer to keep the responsibility solely upon my own shoulders. In addition, I feel that it has strengthened my following of the primary rules of guns.

Finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. When handling a loaded Glock, you learn to be very careful of the trigger; as you should be with ANY gun. Because remember, they're ALWAYS loaded.

Don't point it anywhere you don't want holes to appear. Knowing you carry a weapon that WILL fire, (excepting ammunition failures for simplicities sake,) means that you will ALWAYS be aware of where that muzzle is pointed, because failure to do so is simply not an option.

Many people will not carry a Glock, and that is their choice. I respect them for being able to make that decision. What I cannot abide is someone who choses to carry a Glock, (or any gun, for that matter,) but does not accept the profound responsibility that also comes with it. My Glock has helped to strengthen that responsibility, which I will gladly carry until the day that I die.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I should rephrase; I don't like safety mechanisms that are easily manipulated into a position that will inhibit my ability to fire my weapon. While any safety CAN fail in such a way as to disable the weapon, I have more confidence in the Glock system than I do in most others.

In my opinion, (I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this one,) "safeties" kill almost more people than guns do every year.

1. "I thought the safety was on."

2. "The safety WAS on, and it still went off."

3. "I couldn't turn off the safety in time."

If I'm going to carry any gun at all, I'm being responsible for the safety of myself and of everyone around me, with respect to that weapon. While external manual mechanical safeties can and surely have saved lives, they have also taken many. I prefer to keep the responsibility solely upon my own shoulders. In addition, I feel that it has strengthened my following of the primary rules of guns.

Finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. When handling a loaded Glock, you learn to be very careful of the trigger; as you should be with ANY gun. Because remember, they're ALWAYS loaded.

Don't point it anywhere you don't want holes to appear. Knowing you carry a weapon that WILL fire, (excepting ammunition failures for simplicities sake,) means that you will ALWAYS be aware of where that muzzle is pointed, because failure to do so is simply not an option.

Many people will not carry a Glock, and that is their choice. I respect them for being able to make that decision. What I cannot abide is someone who choses to carry a Glock, (or any gun, for that matter,) but does not accept the profound responsibility that also comes with it. My Glock has helped to strengthen that responsibility, which I will gladly carry until the day that I die.

I agree with many of your points. I have and will continue to carry two main pistols, a Kimber 1911 Ultra that has the series 80 firing pin safety, and also an AR-24 which is a DA/SA or cocked and locked single action. I believe that no matter the gun chosen, it is the owners responsibility to be safe and follow the easy 4 rules, Loaded, Finger/trigger, point, backstop. I can't stand incompitant people with ANY deadly object.

 

[Roadie]

I should rephrase; I don't like safety mechanisms that are easily manipulated into a position that will inhibit my ability to fire my weapon. While any safety CAN fail in such a way as to disable the weapon, I have more confidence in the Glock system than I do in most others.

In my opinion, (I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this one,) "safeties" kill almost more people than guns do every year.

1. "I thought the safety was on."

2. "The safety WAS on, and it still went off."

3. "I couldn't turn off the safety in time."

If I'm going to carry any gun at all, I'm being responsible for the safety of myself and of everyone around me, with respect to that weapon. While external manual mechanical safeties can and surely have saved lives, they have also taken many. I prefer to keep the responsibility solely upon my own shoulders. In addition, I feel that it has strengthened my following of the primary rules of guns.

Finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. When handling a loaded Glock, you learn to be very careful of the trigger; as you should be with ANY gun. Because remember, they're ALWAYS loaded.

Don't point it anywhere you don't want holes to appear. Knowing you carry a weapon that WILL fire, (excepting ammunition failures for simplicities sake,) means that you will ALWAYS be aware of where that muzzle is pointed, because failure to do so is simply not an option.

Many people will not carry a Glock, and that is their choice. I respect them for being able to make that decision. What I cannot abide is someone who choses to carry a Glock, (or any gun, for that matter,) but does not accept the profound responsibility that also comes with it. My Glock has helped to strengthen that responsibility, which I will gladly carry until the day that I die.

...and as posted many times here, during similar discussions..there is a video of a jewlry store owner murdered, while he fumbled with either the safety, or racking the slide, or both...

 

[RelicHound]

I won't carry a GLOCK, unless it's been sent to TEN RING to get a frame mounted safety, it cost $125

Looking at some of your post,I'm wondering if you talk like you type..that could get real annoying. "Hey GUYS how ARE you DOING?..I LIKE to add all CAPS to MY post in RANDOM spots...It's ALMOST like TORRETS"
And I would also like to add...frame mounted safeties on a glock is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard...especially the part where someone would be willing to pay $125 for it..well its almost the stupidest thing Ive ever heard,the other day when you said you cant run lead bullets through a glock was pretty stupid....or ignorant...or "I just repeat what all the "cool" guys say on the internet" not sure which one it is.

 

[cosermann]

... I'm not hating on Glocks but... My XD wouldn't do that!

Oh, really?

Here's what happened in the article - man holstered gun in holster with a crease in it. Crease engages trigger and pushes it to the rear, firing gun.

How might this situation play out with an XD?

Scenario 1 - Person reholsters gun with full firing grip. Bang. No difference.

Commentary: Most of the people that I've seen reholster XDs do it with a full firing grip. Ergo - zero benefit from the grip "safety" when reholstering. Those who understand their XDs can modify their grip on the reholster, such as shifting your thumb to the rear of the slide, to take advantage of the grip "safety" when reholstering. If doing it that way, then, yes an XD shouldn't go "bang" on the reholster. Stay with me here.

Scenario 2 - Person reholstered gun as in scenario 1, but used a grip taking advantage of the XD's grip "safety". Therefore no discharge ocurred on the reholster. The pistol is now in the holster with the trigger held back by the crease.

Commentary: What happens if the person takes a full firing grip on the gun to draw it? Answer = "bang." That's how the XD grip safety works. If you doubt me, try it yourself on a XD pointed in a safe direction. First, pull and hold the trigger to the rear + then engage the grip safety = click/bang. There's no order in which those 2 actions events have to occur.

So, while it is possible that the grip safety on an XD could give a user that little something extra to avoid the consequences of a situation like this, it is by no means certain (as illustrated above). And, from the way I've seen many people mainpulate their XDs, the result would be no different.

Bottom line - know how your equipment works and reholster carefully every single time. There are no extra credit points awarded for reholstering fast. Gunfights aren't won by the person who reholsters the fastest. There's just no reason to do it without due care.

Stay safe.

 

[Relatively Ninja]

That's how the XD grip safety works. If you doubt me, try it yourself on a XD pointed in a safe direction.

I decided to go try this myself, and you're almost right. I'm not posting this to try and prove you wrong, I think you brought up a very good point. Here are the results to this "experiment".

I took an unloaded XD that was ready to fire, pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger without touching the grip safety. When I pressed the grip safety, the gun DIDN'T go off. The trigger has to be pulled a very very tiny bit harder after the grip safety is pressed. I don't know how the two safeties work together from a mechanical point of view, but it appears that the grip safety will not allow the trigger to be pulled all the way even if the trigger safety is deactivated.

This means there are two possibilities for the scenario of someone catching the trigger of their XD on their holster. Really it comes down to how you draw.
1) If you apply any downward pressure WHATSOEVER as you draw (also pressing the grip safety), the gun goes bang.
2) If you apply absolutely zero downward pressure as you draw (in theory) the gun would not fire because you didn't give it that little extra press downwards.

However, this little piece of additional safety is no substitute for checking your gear and not holstering your gun in such a worn holster. Thank you for giving me the motivation to go check it out for myself!

 

[INyooper]

However, this little piece of additional safety is no substitute for checking your gear and not holstering your gun in such a worn holster. Thank you for giving me the motivation to go check it out for myself!

Which, ultimately, makes the point that a gun's "safety" is really lodged between the ears of the person handling the firearm (pistol, rifle, whatever). If that's true, then all the "external" safeties (firearm and/or person) will not, necessarily, make a firearm any "safer" (and I use the quote marks because there are a number of folks who believe that a little switch on the side of the firearm makes it incapable of injuring anyone and, in thinking so, they are prone to develop a false security in that switch that magically makes a firearm "safe").

 

[Yosarian87]

Safeties for guns= Grey matter between ears...when people ask me where my safety on my Glock or any other firearm i hold up my hand wiggle my finger and then point to my head. Albeit there are safeties on many of my guns, but never the less it's usually user error. Much like in the instrument world it's rarely the instruments fault it's usually the thing between the seat and the instrument.

 

[gunman41mag]

Looking at some of your post,I'm wondering if you talk like you type..that could get real annoying. "Hey GUYS how ARE you DOING?..I LIKE to add all CAPS to MY post in RANDOM spots...It's ALMOST like TORRETS"
And I would also like to add...frame mounted safeties on a glock is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard...especially the part where someone would be willing to pay $125 for it..well its almost the stupidest thing Ive ever heard,the other day when you said you cant run lead bullets through a glock was pretty stupid....or ignorant...or "I just repeat what all the "cool" guys say on the internet" not sure which one it is.

The only way you can shoot lead out of a GLOCK is if you drop-in an AFTERMAKET BARREL, you shoot lead out of the factory GLOCK barrel & your GLOCK will blow-up

 

[RelicHound]

The only way you can shoot lead out of a GLOCK is if you drop-in an AFTERMAKET BARREL, you shoot lead out of the factory GLOCK barrel & your GLOCK will blow-up

You're just full of misinformation aren't you? I have shot thousands of rounds of lead from Glocks and have never had a problem...a lot of the guys I shoot with have shot lead from thier glocks and none of them have ever had a problem. you should stop getting your info from internet commandos. the ONLY thing LEAD will do is CAUSE fouling...just a little QUICKER than jacketed ROUNDS...thats a simple FIX..just clean your gun a LITTLE more often. You dont need a AFTERMARKET barrel TO shoot LEAD from your GLOCK. IF you believe that THAN you are a SUCKER....or a PARROT and you JUST repeat whatever you SEE on the net typed by UNINFORMED people.

 

[BlueEagle]

My head hurts from reading all that oddly-timed shouting....

About the grip safety on the XD's; I believe that, if you had a leather holster that was pressing back on the trigger, the tension in the leather would likely be enough to depress the trigger the rest of the way back in the event that you disengaged the grip "safety." In addition to the fact that, to disengage the grip safety, you have to apply pressure to the back of the weapon, which is LIKELY, (but not absolutely,) going to put more pressure on that trigger via the leather.

In addition, I think that many people carry guns with a round in the chamber, safety off. Either using a DA trigger as a form of "safety" or just proper trigger control. Obviously any gun in this condition would've gone off as well. I think that the Glock, or any model of gun with the trigger-blade type system actually had a bit better chance of avoiding an ND than other systems. I say a bit, because obviously it didn't, but if that leather had been in a slightly different place, or folded a slight different way, it might have completely missed the trigger blade and avoided an ND.

But honestly, I don't think I would've wanted that; I think it worked out much better the way it did. Because if this hadn't happened when it had and brought his attention to the matter...when would it have happened? Who would've been hurt? As far as ND's go...this is about the best you can hope for, short of having one while you are on the range, aimed at the target.

 

[dpetreikis]

Use common sense and proper application of firearm safety rules and we should all be ok...

 

[kingnereli]

Oh, really?

Here's what happened in the article - man holstered gun in holster with a crease in it. Crease engages trigger and pushes it to the rear, firing gun.

How might this situation play out with an XD?

Scenario 1 - Person reholsters gun with full firing grip. Bang. No difference.

Commentary: Most of the people that I've seen reholster XDs do it with a full firing grip. Ergo - zero benefit from the grip "safety" when reholstering. Those who understand their XDs can modify their grip on the reholster, such as shifting your thumb to the rear of the slide, to take advantage of the grip "safety" when reholstering. If doing it that way, then, yes an XD shouldn't go "bang" on the reholster. Stay with me here.

Scenario 2 - Person reholstered gun as in scenario 1, but used a grip taking advantage of the XD's grip "safety". Therefore no discharge ocurred on the reholster. The pistol is now in the holster with the trigger held back by the crease.

Commentary: What happens if the person takes a full firing grip on the gun to draw it? Answer = "bang." That's how the XD grip safety works. If you doubt me, try it yourself on a XD pointed in a safe direction. First, pull and hold the trigger to the rear + then engage the grip safety = click/bang. There's no order in which those 2 actions events have to occur.

So, while it is possible that the grip safety on an XD could give a user that little something extra to avoid the consequences of a situation like this, it is by no means certain (as illustrated above). And, from the way I've seen many people mainpulate their XDs, the result would be no different.

Bottom line - know how your equipment works and reholster carefully every single time. There are no extra credit points awarded for reholstering fast. Gunfights aren't won by the person who reholsters the fastest. There's just no reason to do it without due care.

Stay safe.

I hate to revive an old thread here but you're just really wrong. The AD happened when he was putting on his seat belt not while re-holstering. The grip safety would have been engage for the whole car ride home and this would not have happened. Secondly, the thumb on the back of the slide trick works when taking the gun out of the holster as well. This exact scenario with an XD would have found the man putting his pistol safely on his nightstand with his leg, clothing and door frame unharmed. The main lesson to learn here is to make sure your gear is in good shaped but it's also a fantastic lesson in why, for pistols with a relatively short and light trigger pull such as single actions or striker fired guns, responsible carry equals external safety.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I hate to revive an old thread here but you're just really wrong. The AD happened when he was putting on his seat belt not while re-holstering. The grip safety would have been engage for the whole car ride home and this would not have happened. Secondly, the thumb on the back of the slide trick works when taking the gun out of the holster as well. This exact scenario with an XD would have found the man putting his pistol safely on his nightstand with his leg, clothing and door frame unharmed. The main lesson to learn here is to make sure your gear is in good shaped but it's also a fantastic lesson in why, for pistols with a relatively short and light trigger pull such as single actions or striker fired guns, responsible carry equals external safety.

I agree with your sentiment, but want to add a word of caution. I'm not sure about XDs, but an XDm whose trigger is in this sort of bind will discharge if you depress the grip safety. That's a long series of unlikely events, but it *is* possible. Of course, I don't go around fingering the grip safety all the time...but it's not infallible.

It's this sort of situation that has me nail-biting in a decision between sticking with my XDm 40 or switching to a Glock 20 10mm. I really like the idea of the 10mm Auto's extra kinetic energy delivered to the target, but I really prefer the XDm platform. I really wish Springfield would make this easy on me

 

[jd42k]

Ouch..Seen that some time ago.
This is one reason perhaps I choose a kydex material as once given a shape it won't change. i.e. Crossbreed Super tuck IWB.

 

[jeremy]

My takeaways from this...
1.) Always buy Quality equipment...
2.) Always check YOUR equipment...
3.) Never CC...

 

[ATF Consumer]

Don't buy cheap, thin flimsy leather holsters that don't completely cover the trigger...
There is no way the one I have would ever do that, it is stronger than Kydex and made from horsehide...

Oh, and it's for sale...
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-3_holsters_for_glock_26_27_a.html?highlight=

 

[parsimonious]

I have a feeling the bullet hole wasn't the only thing ruining those pants.