No Gun at Church Anymore

[Loopie159753]

I have only been carrying my gun for 4 months now. I carry from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. I carry everywhere I am legally able to. So church is no exception. Now I am not against OC but I didn't feel comfortable doing so when I started carrying. So for the first 2 1/2 months I would make sure to cover my gun up. I usually just wear shirt tie and slacks on Sunday. I would have to wear a suit jacket though in order to cover up. I hate wearing suit jackets, so much that I only own one of them. Any other day I am at church it’s just an untucked polo and jeans so there is no problem covering up. I must note that I control everything in the sound booth at church so I am not out in the open until the beginning and end of church.

About a month and half ago I felt comfortable to open carry only on Sundays due to the fact that I was sick of wearing the suit jacket. Little by little people started to notice and only a few people asked about it. I never got the feeling that they were scared or concerned so I felt at ease. About a month ago is when the Pastor noticed. He asked if it was real and if I was a cop. I said yes it was real and that I wasn't a cop. That was the end of the conversation.

Yesterday at choir practice I was called into his office. I won’t go into detail about everything he said but basically he didn't want me bringing the gun to church anymore. He wants me to think it over and let him know what my decision is before Saturday (that’s when were having a conference for the district at our church). He didn't actually say it but my ultimatum is no more gun at church and I continue the sound booth or no more sound booth. I love running the system and everything but I feel really strong about my beliefs and right to carry a gun. I feel I need to stand up for what I believe even for something like this because I feel if I don’t I’m going to lose that right. Not only that but If I can’t stand up for what I believe here what makes me think I am going to be able to do it anywhere else. I know that some people don't think you should carry at church and that’s fine. I have nothing against those people but I don't feel a church is any safer from danger than a gas station or any other place for that matter. Our church isn't in the best of neighborhoods either and I am usually the first one to church. I am usually there by myself for a 1/2 hour to an hour before someone else shows up. I must also note that I have only been attending this church for over 2 years and the only reason I started going here was because they needed someone to run the projector. So it’s not like this was the church I was raised in I can always go back to my original church. At this moment I feel I have a decision but I wanted to hear what everyone else thought. If I decide to leave I am not going to do so in a way that is disrespectful or in any way leave a bad name for myself.

 

[Love the 1911]

Have more conversations with your Pastor. Explain why you carry and ask why he doesn't want you to. Also, explain your plan for something (robbery, both armed and strong-arm, assault, etc) happening and how you plan to react. Also, ask him if he's against the gun or if other members of the congregation approached him about it.

I carry every day also. I also carry at church (I always CC). I've told my Pastor that I carry and that if someone comes in to steal money, they can have it. If you shoot someone for taking off with the collection plate, it is likely that you will spend more defending yourself in both criminal and civil courts than was even in the plate. If I feel that someone's life is in danger, I will act appropriately to make sure people are as safe as possible.

Good luck, hope your Pastor will understand.

 

[JohnP82]

Wow that sucks. Very sorry to hear about your situation. Got some serious thinking to do. Good luck

 

[Rookie]

Seems pretty simple to me. Church is supposed to welcome people from all walks of life. I highly doubt your pastor would have an issue with a homeless person attending church, even if he stunk. I would explain to him that your gun is no different than a cell phone, it's a tool for a specific job. If he still wants to give an ultimatum, conceal or find another church.

 

[Sylvain]

If you are not welcome the way you are (with your gun) in that church then I think its time for a new church.
I would talk to the pastor first.Most of the people who are anti-gun are just ignorant, once you explain them things if they have common sense they will change their mind.
Some will be anti-gun no matter what you tell them, even if you happen to save their life with your gun.
The fact that he asked if you were a cop shows that maybe he thinks that its only legal for cops to carry or that he thinks only cops have the proper training to carry.
Most of the non-gun people always think that LEOs have more training than the average armed citizen.Once they learn the truth they are actually scared by LEOs carrying a gun lol.
Tell him about your training, the fact that its legal, how you could protect everybody in the church if something were to happen.

 

[ATM]

Your decision, of course, but if I wanted to stay at that church and remain armed I would likely offer the compromise of keeping it concealed so it couldn't be considered a distraction from worship.

There is really no other argument to be made against carrying in a church that can't be fairly easily refuted.

Hopefully, you can have more conversation on this matter and try to get at the root of the pastor's issue. More than likely, he holds a misconception or two which you could address together as a learning experience.

I have used many resources in debating the topic of carry in church and one of the best I've found online for sheer volume of church violence statistics and good additional links is here:

Carl Chinn

Report back with any specific issues he notes as there are many other topic-specific resources available on this subject.

 

[LPMan59]

Church is supposed to welcome people from all walks of life.

sorry, i couldn't help it.

 

[Rookie]

Key word: supposed

 

[lovemachine]

IMO, you can try to talk your pastor more about this. But it is unlikely he'll change his mind. As far as you know, another member could have been complaining about you.

What I would do, is just conceal. Buy yourself a nice IWB holster. I carry the Comp-TAC MTAC. Awesome IWB holster. I use it everyday. And it works very nicely when I go to church. I just have to cover it with a short sleeve dress shirt, and you can't tell I'm carrying.

Just make everyone happy. What they don't know won't hurt them. And you won't feel forced to find a new church, and/or lose the sound section.

 

[fergie22]

i`m not sure what you carry but an ankle holster might solve the problem of concealing but not the problem of the pastors feelings on the subject jmo

semper fi

 

[jd4320t]

I have a question and I'm not trying to be a smartass or start trouble.

How can the OP CC if his pastor asked him not to carry in the church? Should he lie to the pastor?

 

[lovemachine]

I have a question and I'm not trying to be a smartass or start trouble.

How can the OP CC if his pastor asked him not to carry in the church? Should he lie to the pastor?

A white lie never hurt anybody

I would just tell him that I understand your concerns. A lot of people are a little intimidated about guns. Me, I carry to protect my life, my families life, and other lives around me. There are a lot of evil people in this world, and you have to protect yourself from it. And sadly, the church can't protect you from everything.

And I would offer to take the pastor shooting too.

 

[vesan87]

Offer to take the pastor shooting. Show him firsthand the safety and training involved.

 

[Indyal]

Loopie, I suggest that you have a discussion with him about why you carry and the legality of it. You might do a google search for the line, "he who does not have a sword..". This will lead you to various sights that discuss the concept of self defense from a Biblical standpoint.

 

[Mr.Strato]

"He asked if it was real and if I was a cop"
"been attending this church for over 2 years "

Those 2 statements would indicate you and the pastor don't /haven't communicated much. I mean, you are on the "worship team" and he doesn't know what you do for a living? For all he knows you might run the powerpoint presentation down at the whorehouse!

Back in the old West days they used to hang their gunbelts in the vestibule.
Look, respect his decision, sounds like it's a non-denominational church?
If so, HE is THE decision maker. (Sounds like this isn't an issue to take to "conference" or "assembly").
Go find yourself a church that welcomes open carry and untucked polo shirts- they're out there.
You said:"he didn't want me bringing the gun to church anymore".
Sounds like cc is OFF the table. Just respect the man's decision.

 

[Love the 1911]

Don't CC and lie. If you must use your weapon in the church in the future, your Pastor could decide to throw you to the wolves instead of allowing the church to take any responsibility of a shooting.

 

[maxmayhem]

HOW I WOULD HANDLE IT

A Biblical Approach
I Corinthians 8 (Read and study this chapter 8 and understand that it is talking about not doing something that you feel is not a sin(or wrong) because others think that it is wrong . You do this because you do not want others who are weak in faith to "stumble" This verse fits your situation perfectly.)
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weakI Corinthians 8:9
Application of this principle to the situation:
If you feel that you should go to that church then I would not put your gun ahead of God and other members.
The big picture here is that many people go to church to learn about God and hopefully get saved. I would not want to discourage anyone person from knowing Christ personally. I would daresay that many Christians are in favor of you having your gun rights. Others may be against and many more are on the fence. I would not want my gun to be the reason people stumbled and did not go to church. I certainly would not want someone to be afraid to go to church even if they were a gun hatin' lib. Yes, you have the liberty to carry your gun. There is no sin in taking your gun to church. The pastor is hearing another side of the story and feels it is best that you not carry it. I do not think that most pastors would ask you to do something that you did not want to do unless there was a good reason. I would seek a compromise in this situation with an ankle holster. Tactically, this is the best approach anyway because if a shooter come in then you can go down to the pew for cover and comeback shooting and save the life of the lib and convert him to a gun totin' conservative.

 

[maxmayhem]

Good Advice

I would talk to him about your legal right to ccw and the advantages of it. I would not ccw and lie or break an agreement to carry...

Don't CC and lie. If you must use your weapon in the church in the future, your Pastor could decide to throw you to the wolves instead of allowing the church to take any responsibility of a shooting.

 

[maxmayhem]

Good Question

This is a good ethical question...I think you cannot lie or break the agreement and carry concealed..I would agree to not open carry and advise that you will conceal carry as a compromise...that seems reasonable...

I have a question and I'm not trying to be a smartass or start trouble.

How can the OP CC if his pastor asked him not to carry in the church? Should he lie to the pastor?

 

[iChokePeople]

My primary reaction is to the fact that after that much time and involvement, your pastor doesn't even seem to know you. IMHO, that's a pretty big deal.