Not Quite Right

[maxwelhse]

That should scare most anyone.

Trade the pistol for massage oil and I'd look like Usain Bolt on my way out of there...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Their hands. Fixed it.

Ha! I actually read it as "their hands" when I replied.

 

[Tactically Fat]

The attitude and mentality of "I'm going to shoot anyone that doesn't belong in my house" is extremely short-sighted at best, and willfully ignorant at worst.

That you cannot think through the potential legal, civil, personal, and mental ramifications of shooting (And potentially killing) an innocent person speaks volumes.

"tried by 12 vs carried by 6" is a faulty and ignorant way to live.

 

[BugI02]

I'm assuming most people on INGO carry regularly, so let me ask you T.Fat. If someone accosts you on the street are you going to wait and see if they're just after you wallet, watch and wedding ring before you draw? And if you draw, are you not willing to shoot?

I fail to see much difference between the two situations. If they're willing to take me on in the street, why would I assume they would be unwilling to do the same breaking into my house when they know I'm home? In either situation my position of pretty much the last line of defense for my wife is going to affect the RoE

 

[maxwelhse]

That you cannot think through the potential legal, civil, personal, and mental ramifications of shooting (And potentially killing) an innocent person speaks volumes.

My doors and windows are locked at all times... I'm curious what "innocent" person is just going to show up inside my house by way of breaking in. Short of Jesus materializing out of thin air and starting the second coming in my living room, nobody inside my house uninvited is innocent and we have laws on the books that reflect that.

I won't guess to the intent of your words, but to me it almost reads like confusion over "within the house" and "on the property". I wouldn't go out back and start shooting unless the situation was clearly not going to get resolved any other way as someone who is outside hasn't made their intentions clear. If you have broken into my house, you've stated your case clearly. I don't care if that person is drunk, high, mentally disabled, whatever. If they forcibly break into the house I have no way of knowing where they're going to stop and I'm not going to make guesses about it. I'm going to ask one time that they stop what they're doing and leave and I sincerely hope they do. I don't want to shoot anyone almost as much as I don't want to be shot. I don't have guns because I'm some tough guy looking for a fight. I have guns because I'm not.

Maybe you're envisioning a situation where we'd all stalk home invaders hoping to shoot them? Speaking for myself, that's absolutely not true. I don't have fire extinguishers because I'm hoping for a house fire either...

 

[fjw2]

You hired Printcraft as home security?

Is Printcraft a sub contractor? Rates please.

 

[BGDave]

Amanda Blackburn. This needs to be a part of your mindset.

 

[Sigblitz]

Yeah, that was horrible. When do they get out? Asking for a friend.

 

[Sigblitz]

They did 3 home burglaries and one at Westlake. Killed a few, raped a couple, took their cars. Blackburn was pregnant when she was raped and murdered.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I'm assuming most people on INGO carry regularly, so let me ask you T.Fat. If someone accosts you on the street are you going to wait and see if they're just after you wallet, watch and wedding ring before you draw? And if you draw, are you not willing to shoot?

I fail to see much difference between the two situations. If they're willing to take me on in the street, why would I assume they would be unwilling to do the same breaking into my house when they know I'm home? In either situation my position of pretty much the last line of defense for my wife is going to affect the RoE

My comment was wholly about in-house use of lethal force against known/unknown intruders inside said home.

My doors and windows are locked at all times... I'm curious what "innocent" person is just going to show up inside my house by way of breaking in. Short of Jesus materializing out of thin air and starting the second coming in my living room, nobody inside my house uninvited is innocent and we have laws on the books that reflect that.

You may think that your house is buttoned up 100% of the time - but what if you make a mistake? And what if, in the totality of circumstances, you carry in an armful of groceries at the same time there's a silver alert for an early-onset alzheimer's patient 1 mile a way who wanders into your home by accident? What if your favorite nephew, whom you've had over to your house hundreds of times, gets sloshed at a party and he has his buddies drop him off at your place because it's the closest? Since he's been there so much he knows how to get in. The "I'll shoot anyone who is in side" crowd will burn him down.

How many news reports do there have to be of a homeowner shooting and killing a spouse or their own child on the mistaken belief that said person was an intruder? The "I'll shoot anyone inside" mentality is what has royally screwed those people. Why? Because they simply cannot envision any scenario at all where an innocent person may be inside their home.

If you read INGO enough, or any other similar message board, you'll read myriad posts of "if they're in my house, they're getting shot". THAT is the attitude that'll get someone strung out to dry 6 ways to Sunday.

We/you/us like to "think" that we're always 100% secure. But we aren't. It just isn't human nature. We forget. Crap happens.

It's the same exact attitude that gets people in trouble when a REAL criminal comes in, does criminal ****, then attemps to leaves once confronted...and gets shot in the back. "but he was in my house!" Sorry - the "shoot anyone inside" mentality doesn't work.

Simply, just because someone is inside your house does NOT give you license to shoot that person. Period. There MUST be a totality of circumstances / thresholds first. And even if those ARE met, you still may be charged / jailed - especially depending on the prosecutor in your jurisdiction.

There is WAY more to a self-defense action (justified or not) than just the act itself. Again - there's the "fight" fight, there's the legal fight, financial/personal fight, and the mental fight.

I urge anyone who reads this post to lookup any and all you can about Varg Freeborn. Yes - that's a real dude's name. Specifically Primary & Secondary Modcast Podcasts #83 and #112 - Primal Violence 1 and 2. And in that vein, anything by Varg that you can find and/or listen to. https://www.violenceofmind.com/

 

[maxwelhse]

How many news reports do there have to be of a homeowner shooting and killing a spouse or their own child on the mistaken belief that said person was an intruder? The "I'll shoot anyone inside" mentality is what has royally screwed those people. Why? Because they simply cannot envision any scenario at all where an innocent person may be inside their home.

Every scenario you've outlined assumed that just because I'm in my house I'm going to forget my 4 rules, specifically rule 4:

Be aware of your target and what's behind it...

 

[Route 45]

Well yeah, you've got to identify your target first. Duh. I don't think I've seen advocacy on INGO for indiscriminate blasting at shadows in the living room.

 

[Michigan Slim]

What's mine is mine. I worked hard for it. I will confront yu outside, while armed. How it goes from there is up to them.
Someone in my house? Now I'm hunting. All bets are off. It is my duty to see that they never do it again.
I have been broken into and stolen from enough. I've had enough.

 

[Doug]

Well, this has generated a lot of discussion and everyone makes their own choices.

My recommendations are:

1. Have a plan.
2. If possible, take a defensive position.
3. If possible, let the police clear the house; they are trained for it and they work in pairs.

 

[Thor]

My doors and windows are locked at all times... I'm curious what "innocent" person is just going to show up inside my house by way of breaking in. Short of Jesus materializing out of thin air and starting the second coming in my living room, nobody inside my house uninvited is innocent and we have laws on the books that reflect that.

I won't guess to the intent of your words, but to me it almost reads like confusion over "within the house" and "on the property". I wouldn't go out back and start shooting unless the situation was clearly not going to get resolved any other way as someone who is outside hasn't made their intentions clear. If you have broken into my house, you've stated your case clearly. I don't care if that person is drunk, high, mentally disabled, whatever. If they forcibly break into the house I have no way of knowing where they're going to stop and I'm not going to make guesses about it. I'm going to ask one time that they stop what they're doing and leave and I sincerely hope they do. I don't want to shoot anyone almost as much as I don't want to be shot. I don't have guns because I'm some tough guy looking for a fight. I have guns because I'm not.

Maybe you're envisioning a situation where we'd all stalk home invaders hoping to shoot them? Speaking for myself, that's absolutely not true. I don't have fire extinguishers because I'm hoping for a house fire either...

^^^this exactly^^^

Anyone willing to steal from you, break into your house, take your choice of felony has already gone through the decision making process that will end your life. They will kill you to not get caught by the law.

 

[Thor]

To the OP. Why stop that reasoning with the house? Why not include the country? If people just want to come and take our stuff why should we stop them? We can always make more.

 

[Lost Californian]

um, this....

 

[Doug]

To the OP. Why stop that reasoning with the house? Why not include the country? If people just want to come and take our stuff why should we stop them? We can always make more.

Seriously?
Individuals are different from countries and there is no effective, recognized authority to police the world.

I will protect me and my family, but I think it's stupid to shoot somebody over a $600 TV and then spend $30,000 or more on attorney's fees for the criminal trial and civil suits that may result.

As I understand the concept of "justifiable homicide" you must be able to articulate why you "reasonably believed the person presented an immediate, unavoidable threat of death or grievous bodily harm to yourself or another individual."
Breaking in and continuing towards me after being ordered to stop qualifies; carrying my TV out the back door doesn't.

Do what you think best.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Y'all can do what you want. I do not pay your bills.

I HIGHLY suggest education, from experts, on the legal system. It'll cure a lot of ignorance.

 

[thelefthand]

If you cross my threshold uninvited, or attempt to cross my threshold by force while I'm in my home, someone will take what's left of you out in bags and buckets. It's not my responsibility to ascertain why you are present. My responsibility is to protect my family by stopping the threat. Providing for and protecting my family is NOT the governments responsibility. That responsibility was placed on my shoulders by my creator. I have the training, the equipment, and the will to do so. Do I want this to happen? Absolutely not. It would undoubted go down as one of the worst, if not the worst day of my life. Never the less, if that day comes, I will flip my switch and go to work in order to protect my family. As for the threat, God help them.