Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning.

[Sylvain]

Since I didn’t retain much, if any, from my freshman French class I have no idea what is being said in clip (not magazine) about the US helping France rebuild the church. If they are talking about government dollars (taxpayer dollars) then my question is WHY? First, why would we send money to France for anything ? Secondly, isn’t this in some way having the government support religion (Catholicism) ?

The video has English subtitles.

It doesn't say anything about sending money.Clearly France has enough to pay for the reconstruction of Notre Dame.

Notre Dame is a national historical building in France, just like the Eiffel Tower.It doesn't belong to the Catholic Church so helping with the reconstruction is not supporting religion.

It's just a nice gestsure saying "the US stands with you as you rebuild that building".

Here's the transcript:

[FONT=&quot]This morning, President Donald J. Trump, on behalf of the American people, offered his condolences to President Emmanuel Macron of France for the devastation caused by the fire at the Cathedral of Notre Dame de Paris. The United States stands with French citizens, the city of Paris, and the millions of visitors from around the world who have sought solace in that iconic structure. The Cathedral has served as a spiritual home for almost a millennium, and we are saddened to witness the damage to this architectural masterpiece. Notre Dame will continue to serve as a symbol of France, including its freedom of religion and democracy. France is the oldest ally of the United States, and we remember with grateful hearts the tolling of Notre Dame’s bells on September 12, 2001, in solemn recognition of the tragic September 11th attacks on American soil. Those bells will sound again. We stand with France today and offer our assistance in the rehabilitation of this irreplaceable symbol of Western civilization. Vive la France![/FONT]

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Well, since that thing was built, we discovered the scarf joint. A perfectly acceptable way to join timbers to accommodate longer spans.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

This guy is little flaky, but he's a pretty amazing carpenter.

[video=youtube;0p_jCW5UcI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=0p_jCW5UcI0[/video]

 

[hoosierdoc]

Well doc, I don't agree with the institutions agenda.... in fact I disagree with much of it. But the 'study' wasn't theirs, they just quoted a 7-year study of excess waste by Americans. Most of the study involved paper waste, alcohol, entertainment and single-driver commutes (in urban areas).

Tell me, WHY would they make up such numbers? How would that be, in any way, to their advantage?

I don’t consider alcohol, entertainment, or single driver commutes a waste. Definitions are important.

ads are wasteful. Who needs ads? All advertising spending is thus a waste.

 

[JeepHammer]

Right protected, not granted, by the Constitution. The Constitution does not grant rights; it merely acknowledges and protects pre-existing rights - rights that are granted by God.

In that sorta, kinda, maybe world that lawyers & believers live in, you might have a point...

The truth is, the guys that put on the uniform & protect/enforce the rights the Constitution GRANTS you,
Police, Military, Judges Robes are the uniforms,
And without them ANYONE can be hunted in the streets for any reason.
Exactly ZERO cases of any 'God' swooping down and protecting anyone can be proven,
While military keeps terrorists & Communists from kicking your door in,
Under the rule of law, Police (capital 'P') keep criminals & crazies from carrying you off,
Judges lock up the criminals & crazies to keep them from coming back, or going after someone else.

Recent VERIFIABLE history,
Christians murdering Muslims (crusades)
NAZIs murdering Jews, Gypsies, Gays, mentally challenged, trade unionists, etc.

Currently,
Tribes murdering each other,
Muslims murdering everyone,
Communists murdering Democrats (that's Democratic government citizens)
Gangs murdering each other, etc.
White Supremacists murdering anyone that's not white & Christian,

It's either the law of the jungle, or it's the law of the land. Period.
You want to debate semantics of language in nearly 250 year old document rather than acknowledge the intent of that document that keeps YOU safe...

I'm a Constitutionalist, I'm reading and learning about the Constitution, and the INTENT of the Constitution even though I'm old & fat,
The more I learn, the more I appreciate it.

I don't have an opinion on YOUR choice of religion, the Constitution GRANTS you the protections & rights to practice what ever religion you stumble into, and it's none of my business.
To me, religion is a waste of time & effort at best, and directly opposed to other parts of the Constitution, the reason separation of church & state is so hotly debated...

Everytime Mike Pense (or nay other religious zealot) opens their mouth to change feet, my personal impulse is to get a cattle prod and shock some sense into them.
My rational, thinking side supports the Constitution and gets away from them as quickly as possible as not to infringe upon their granted rights.
I'm running out of escape routes, and I find myself eyeballing the cattle prods at the farm store longer & longer...

Religions, flat Earth, science denier, white supremacist, etc, it's your RIGHT to waste time & brain power on.
I don't like what you say, but I spent 16 years in the military, gave both knees, one hip, my back, my neck, half a lung, 2' of guts & a shoulder so YOU could believe what ever you want.
I paid my price willingly, so at least TRY to act like you aren't entitled to something more from me, or anyone else.

Try to keep the emphasis on the PEOPLE (not 'Gods') that keep you safe, protect your GRANTED rights, and give life & limb doing so.

 

[chipbennett]

Right protected, not granted, by the Constitution. The Constitution does not grant rights; it merely acknowledges and protects pre-existing rights - rights that are granted by God.

Not sure if quoting because you agree, or because you disagree?

To understand my perspective/philosophy better: know that I believe that the founding document of our country is not the Constitution, but rather the Declaration of Independence. And as our founding document, it records the raison d'etre and foundational purpose and philosophy of our government:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Essentially, our founding document establishes that each individual is endowed by our Creator with certain rights, and that the primary and sole purpose of government is to secure those rights. Further, even once government is established to secure those rights, the people (i.e. the collective of individuals) retain the right (power and moral authority) to keep that government in check - up to and including abolishing and replacing it - when government becomes destructive toward its sole, stated purpose.

The landscape changes entirely if one changes the baseline assumption from one of rights granted by our Creator and protected by the Constitution, to one of rights granted by the government through the Constitution.

 

[JeepHammer]

Their 'Creator', you mean our moms & dads?

I'm not a science denier, so evolution created humans, two humans created me and everyone.

When the 'Creator' shows up with irrefutable PROOF they created humans, then it becomes science FACT,
Not creationism superstition or folk tales...

Until then, and ONLY until then, it will be up to Constitutionalists to protect the rights the Constitution GRANTS you....

And make no mistake, it's a GRANT.
The Constitution can be CHANGED at any time to remove said protections and leave you free game for anyone that doesn't like the way you part your hair...

ANYONE that's ever been where the rule of law doesn't exist can verify that for you in case you haven't been to the crap holes of the world...

 

[GREEN607]

Their 'Creator', you mean our moms & dads?

I'm not a science denier, so evolution created humans, two humans created me and everyone.

When the 'Creator' shows up with irrefutable PROOF they created humans, then it becomes science FACT,
Not creationism superstition or folk tales...

Until then, and ONLY until then, it will be up to Constitutionalists to protect the rights the Constitution GRANTS you....

And make no mistake, it's a GRANT.
The Constitution can be CHANGED at any time to remove said protections and leave you free game for anyone that doesn't like the way you part your hair...

ANYONE that's ever been where the rule of law doesn't exist can verify that for you in case you haven't been to the crap holes of the world...

We'll pray for you, sir.

 

[chipbennett]

Their 'Creator', you mean our moms & dads?

I'm not a science denier, so evolution created humans, two humans created me and everyone.

When the 'Creator' shows up with irrefutable PROOF they created humans, then it becomes science FACT,
Not creationism superstition or folk tales...

Until then, and ONLY until then, it will be up to Constitutionalists to protect the rights the Constitution GRANTS you....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

And make no mistake, it's a GRANT.

So, you truly do not believe that humans have certain rights, merely by virtue of their existence - or by virtue of staking and defending claim to them, or for any other reason than that government grants them?

And how does that even work? The government only has powers derived from the governed, and acts only with the consent of the governed - i.e. the people. If those powers - much less, rights - do not come first from the people themselves, how does the government obtain that power - particularly, the power to grant rights?

The Constitution can be CHANGED at any time to remove said protections and leave you free game for anyone that doesn't like the way you part your hair...

ANYONE that's ever been where the rule of law doesn't exist can verify that for you in case you haven't been to the crap holes of the world...

No, the Constitution does not grant rights, and you just demonstrated the danger of such thinking. Yes, the constitution can be changed. The bill of rights can be ripped out. The difference between you and me is that I believe that changing the constitution has no impact on my claim to (or my defense of) inherent, inalienable rights - whereas you apparently believe that changing the constitution would morally justify the government then infringing upon those no-longer-protected rights.

What a sad, nihilistic existence such a belief system must be.

We saw its inevitable outcome in the 20th century.

 

[thunderchicken]

Jeep- thank you for your service and extreme sacrifice. I can't imagine the pain you must have endured.
As for your logic displayed within this thread, it seems to me you must be miserable. I say that because when I read your posts they have all come across as coming from a bitter soul full of anger. I hope that I'm wrong about that. In either case, with no offense meant I will pray for you. May God bless you

 

[Trigger Time]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.



So, you truly do not believe that humans have certain rights, merely by virtue of their existence - or by virtue of staking and defending claim to them, or for any other reason than that government grants them?

And how does that even work? The government only has powers derived from the governed, and acts only with the consent of the governed - i.e. the people. If those powers - much less, rights - do not come first from the people themselves, how does the government obtain that power - particularly, the power to grant rights?



No, the Constitution does not grant rights, and you just demonstrated the danger of such thinking. Yes, the constitution can be changed. The bill of rights can be ripped out. The difference between you and me is that I believe that changing the constitution has no impact on my claim to (or my defense of) inherent, inalienable rights - whereas you apparently believe that changing the constitution would morally justify the government then infringing upon those no-longer-protected rights.

What a sad, nihilistic existence such a belief system must be.

We saw its inevitable outcome in the 20th century.

Bingo! Mic drop.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

And how does that even work? The government only has powers derived from the governed, and acts only with the consent of the governed - i.e. the people. If those powers - much less, rights - do not come first from the people themselves, how does the government obtain that power - particularly, the power to grant rights?

From someone with more curiosity than knowledge:

Some governments obtain power through collective will of "the governed", but I'm not sure that it can be correctly assumed that the power is derived through mandate from ALL of "the governed", or even from MOST of "the governed" in every case. In democratic systems, it most likely starts out that way, naturally. The more closely-aligned the mind-sets of a people are, the less need of extensive governmental dictates. The more that mind-sets of a people diverge, either through changes in perspective, like evolution from rural agriculture living to urban industrial living, or through immigration of people who come with their own pre-set perspectives, the greater need for extensive governmental dictates.

And I would maintain that many governments have existed that have power that is derived from forces that are partially, or entirely other than from the people it governs. In America, for some period of time prior to 1776 that was the case, until it wasn't. The government of King George operated without the Colonist's consent for some period of time before changes were made. In other cases the people weren't as able to throw off the yoke of tyranny.

Edit: Only after re-reading my post, I realize that when you referred to the government, you probably weren't referring to ALL governments.

 

[JeepHammer]

Jeep- thank you for your service and extreme sacrifice. I can't imagine the pain you must have endured.
As for your logic displayed within this thread, it seems to me you must be miserable. I say that because when I read your posts they have all come across as coming from a bitter soul full of anger. I hope that I'm wrong about that. In either case, with no offense meant I will pray for you. May God bless you

Don't be patronizing, the backhanded insults don't help either when you are trying to get a point across.

Miserable?
Most people don't roll over and take Tylenol so 45 minutes later you can use a cane or walker to drain the bladder.
I won't fill up on opioid pain killers and be quiet, pain let's me know I'm still alive, so the fight carries on. Never quit...
That's neither here nor there, it's my issue, not a collective national issue.

What is miserable is 3% pay the price in the military, the 97% completely waste the benefits they are granted.
Because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you sould expound on the joys of child rape or any other thing that passes through your brain.

The fact of the matter is, not everyone is 'Created' equal.
Equal rights is the idea of man, and it has to be enforced simply because the humans will prey on each other.
This is simply human history, from the dawn of humans to current day.

The IDEA we can be better as a nation, or the entire human race, is what the Constitution is.
You have to ACTIVELY work every day...

Like the road rage thread, it immediately devolved into people trying to justify their road rage incidents.
When I said I simply ACTIVELY refused to participate in road rage, I got hate mail from users saying that it was self serving to NOT participate in road rage, rather opting to defuse the situation by allowing following distance or letting a road rager go on down the highway...

To that guy, I'm a selfish idiot by NOT creating or participating in a dangerous situation...

I choose NOT to keep voting for the same people that caused every bit of the issues we have today.
I choose NOT to participate in the idiotic attacks on MY OWN PEOPLE, I'll save that wrath for the people that created & fostered the situation.
I choose NOT to participate in road rage, what we don't need is another moron doing dangerous things on the highway.
I choose NOT to participate in religion, their right to religion is constitutional, but they have no right to dump it on me at every turn, berate & insult when I don't drink the kool-aid.

I choose NOT to participate in arguments that have no point, flat Earth, science denying, religion, sports, white supremacists/NAZIs, child rape, etc. hold no interest for me, I'm NEVER going to subscribe to those ideas, always debated endlessly under the guise of 'Free Speech'...

Now, if you want to talk about what we can do to IMPROVE the human or US situation, then we can talk.
CO2 reduction, clean environment, stable & clean food supply, reduction-ending the big money control of our government, keeping foreign powers from meddling in our government,... I'm all for dealing with those current & ongoing threats.
Eyes forward, you can't do much about the past since humans can't time travel...

 

[Trigger Time]

Don't be patronizing, the backhanded insults don't help either when you are trying to get a point across.

Miserable?
Most people don't roll over and take Tylenol so 45 minutes later you can use a cane or walker to drain the bladder.
I won't fill up on opioid pain killers and be quiet, pain let's me know I'm still alive, so the fight carries on. Never quit...
That's neither here nor there, it's my issue, not a collective national issue.

What is miserable is 3% pay the price in the military, the 97% completely waste the benefits they are granted.
Because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you sould expound on the joys of child rape or any other thing that passes through your brain.

The fact of the matter is, not everyone is 'Created' equal.
Equal rights is the idea of man, and it has to be enforced simply because the humans will prey on each other.
This is simply human history, from the dawn of humans to current day.

The IDEA we can be better as a nation, or the entire human race, is what the Constitution is.
You have to ACTIVELY work every day...

Like the road rage thread, it immediately devolved into people trying to justify their road rage incidents.
When I said I simply ACTIVELY refused to participate in road rage, I got hate mail from users saying that it was self serving to NOT participate in road rage, rather opting to defuse the situation by allowing following distance or letting a road rager go on down the highway...

To that guy, I'm a selfish idiot by NOT creating or participating in a dangerous situation...

I choose NOT to keep voting for the same people that caused every bit of the issues we have today.
I choose NOT to participate in the idiotic attacks on MY OWN PEOPLE, I'll save that wrath for the people that created & fostered the situation.
I choose NOT to participate in road rage, what we don't need is another moron doing dangerous things on the highway.
I choose NOT to participate in religion, their right to religion is constitutional, but they have no right to dump it on me at every turn, berate & insult when I don't drink the kool-aid.

I choose NOT to participate in arguments that have no point, flat Earth, science denying, religion, sports, white supremacists/NAZIs, child rape, etc. hold no interest for me, I'm NEVER going to subscribe to those ideas, always debated endlessly under the guise of 'Free Speech'...

Now, if you want to talk about what we can do to IMPROVE the human or US situation, then we can talk.
CO2 reduction, clean environment, stable & clean food supply, reduction-ending the big money control of our government, keeping foreign powers from meddling in our government,... I'm all for dealing with those current & ongoing threats.
Eyes forward, you can't do much about the past since humans can't time travel...

I have combat injuries too and take meds daily for the rest of my life. Some days i dont want to get out of bed either, but I do. Life goes on. We can die and no one will give a ****, or we can live and be a thorn in the side of ass hats. I chose to be a thorn and have fun. Living hurts every day. Some days im in better moods than others. I get what you are saying. Ive still got shrapnel in my body too. I feel it. It reminds me when i want to forget but cant. But im alive and thats ****ing amazing so im gonna continue to fight for the causes I believe in, just like you obviously do too. But I also try my best not to let this crap define me. I want to enjoy the 2nd chance at life I got and I dont want to be a miserable SOB all the time to my family or friends. But people better stay off my lawn

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Now, if you want to talk about what we can do to IMPROVE the human or US situation, then we can talk.

One of the things that I often spend time debating in my own mind is the possibility that human decision-making might have no significant bearing on the human or US situation.

I've read that, in any given forest, approximately 20% of trees cover most of the canopy and get most of the sunlight. That didn't happen because the trees voted on it.

 

[JeepHammer]

I have combat injuries too and take meds daily for the rest of my life. Some days i dont want to get out of bed either, but I do. Life goes on. We can die and no one will give a ****, or we can live and be a thorn in the side of ass hats. I chose to be a thorn and have fun. Living hurts every day. Some days im in better moods than others. I get what you are saying. Ive still got shrapnel in my body too. I feel it. It reminds me when i want to forget but cant. But im alive and thats ****ing amazing so im gonna continue to fight for the causes I believe in, just like you obviously do too. But I also try my best not to let this crap define me. I want to enjoy the 2nd chance at life I got and I dont want to be a miserable SOB all the time to my family or friends. But people better stay off my lawn

You can't tell someone that hasn't had a serious injury the difference between pain & injury.
Have shrapnel cut your guts up for 35 years, and then loose 2' of guts because it's so damaged and been poisoning you for 35 years there isn't any other way to fix it and you will understand.
Missing the digestive tract is bad, but not having blood poisoning every month or two is something I don't miss.

Have the discount store replacement joints degrade so badly they are heavy meal poisoning you, and you can't get the VA to do anything about it, so you have to beg & borrow money to get replacements yourself, and you will understand.
Giving a 25 or 35 year old man a replacement joint that was intended for a 68 year old grandma then can't understand why he wears it completely out in 4-5 years is normal for the VA...
I'm on my 4th set of knees and my 3rd hip, the new elliptical knee is a HUGE improvement over the round ball knees!

After 16 years in the Marines, mostly deployed into the worst crap holes on the planet (Marines don't deploy to Disney Land) just POs me off to no end almost every day when AMERICANS ATTACK AMERICANS!

The NSA tracked the Russian toll Mills, just ONE produced 33,000 memes a week, 100% to divide Americans.
The Chinese cracked the government data bases, and vacuumed up the personal information on nearly every government employee that had records on computer. That military, CIA, FBI, NSA, politicians all the way down to park rangers.
Seems some idiot decided to store those records on a FDA server with one simple password...

The NSA published China has invaded & infected EVERY single power grid, down to identify the type & brand of controllers,
And in case you don't know, that's how the NSA blew up Iran's uranium centrifuges to stop their nuclear program.
Works equally well to destroy the power grid, a little harder to destroy the water systems, but easier to blow up refineries & pipeline grids.

When 100% of power, water, refinery & pipeline grids report outside control & malware, someone should take notice and do something!
This is no time to be a 'Conservative'...

The congressional investigation into Hillary's private email server revealed the state department server was 'Penetrated' 191 times while she was Sec-State.
They didn't elaborate on how far the government servers were 'Penetrated', when that nugget fell out the line of questioning was stopped in open testimony...
The other nugget that fell out that Hillary's private server was protected by a CIA cyber security guy, and wasn't penetrated even once.
I don't agree with deleting emails, but you simply can't argue the official server was more secure in any way...

China has the keys to the kingdom.
They don't need an EMP, nukes, ICBS, they can crush us with a few key strokes, and that's simply unacceptable.
Although the NSA, cyber command, the military have urged Trump to give the command to harden these computer networks (they can't legally do it without president or congressional act) neither Congress or Trump has given the order.

Russia is doing exactly what they said they would do back in '62,
They are crushing us without firing a shot...
The propaganda is overwhelming and relentless, the sheer volume of propaganda via 'Social Media' is staggering.

For those of us that spent a career completely dependant on the man next to you for your life, we KNOW how this crap creeps in and poisons the unity.
When you are at odds with your own people, you aren't paying attention to the actual threat or enemy.
I don't hate 'Democrats' or 'Republicans', I hate they are distracted arguing/ranting/fighting with each other while China holds the keys to the kingdom, and Russia is making us erode our own power & freedoms.

Internal conflict creates confusion & inaction, and we are vapor locked as a country, only occasional things like 9/11/01 wake us up for a second and get everyone moving in the same direction for a while.
Even that prompting eroded & faded, and those forgetting the past are doomed to repeat it...

 

[Trigger Time]

The world is ****ed up. Were just trying to get Notre Dame rebuilt. Gotta start somewhere.

 

[JeepHammer]

One of the things that I often spend time debating in my own mind is the possibility that human decision-making might have no significant bearing on the human or US situation.

I've read that, in any given forest, approximately 20% of trees cover most of the canopy and get most of the sunlight. That didn't happen because the trees voted on it.

I'm neither a tree or a plant.
I own a chainsaw.

The issue is the folks that can't see the forest for the trees.

The human race is almost certainly an evolutionary dead end.
Humans have always taken the 'Easy' path, choosing to ignore the effect on the biosphere while reproducing out of control and consuming every resource.

There is most certainly going to be a catastrophic reduction in the numbers of humans,
I just don't know if humans have already created conditions that will cause total extinction.

Technologies will only save some simply because of the resources needed for those technologies, there simply isn't enough resources for the ever expanding number of humans...
The question will be how long the technologies can be maintained, and if the short term survivors depending on technology can evolve to survive in the new environment without the technologies when they fail.

Hopefully I'm long dead before the real pain & suffering begin.
The old & disabled, and the very young will be the first to suffer...
The doomsday religions and the insanely greedy have pushed the agenda so far along it's inevitable, it's just a question of *If* the changed biosphere can support human life as we know it at all.

Doomsday cult religions won't be happy until everyone is dead and their 'God' comes back to survey the damage,
The insanely greedy won't be happy until every resource has been monetized and that money has been concentrated at the top.
Don't kid yourself, food & water has already been monetized and they are busy monetizing air. Air cleaners are a big & growing business.
To create a demand for clean air, you first have to poison the free clean air on a global basis, which is already done & getting worse.
This includes governments taxing everything... The rich & powerful only want more money & power...

Everyone 'Believes' what they want, but the science doesn't like.
The only mistake the science made was not realizing how much pollution increases would happen over the past 100 years or so...
It's not like science hasn't been warning about this, raising LOUD alarms for the last 60 years or so saying we were very close to the tipping point,
And big energy got trillions in grants & tax credits! It was expensive waging a disinformation campaign before social media of the last few years, it's much cheaper for big energy/industry now.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I'm neither a tree or a plant.
I own a chainsaw.

The issue is the folks that can't see the forest for the trees.

Nicely done.

 

[wagyu52]

 

[JeepHammer]

Nicely done.

I'm none too smart, there is a reason I'm on a random internet forum and wasn't sitting next to Steven Hawking...

I did have a glimpse of what humans can & will do to each other & their biosphere...
And who the proponents of ultimate demise are.

I'm not a 'Save The Planet' type, the planet is a chunk of rock & metal, was here before any life, and will never know life was ever here.

I'm all for saving the biosphere as much as we can, humans *Might* evolve enough to survive, and if not, maybe something can & probably will evolve & survive if we don't screw things up totally...

I'm not inclined to surrender, I don't think it's in me.
So, I'll try to talk sense I to people until I die, not that it will do any good. I waste time on things all the time, like I said, none too bright...