Obama apologizes for bombing of Laos

[Timjoebillybob]

A worker at Walmart - or in the US military - should not be subsidized by the US taxpayer with food stamps or other programs. Walmart can afford to pay higher wages, as can many other companies.

Yes they do.

I agree on the Walmart worker, why should others be forced to subsidize their lifestyle? Cut the programs, or at the least time limit them. How many of those workers who are being subsidized have big screen tvs, cable/satellite, cell phones with unlimited data and everything else, high dollar clothes, etc. Heck there are places all over that sell used clothing, rice and beans are cheap and what most of the world lives on, HBO isn't necessary for life... Heck my cell phone cost me $10 and I pay that about every month or so.

For the military, all their pay/benefits come from the taxpayers anyway. What does it matter what it is called?

BugIO2 wrote (in blue):

Let's see:

National debt is not "the deficit". Also national debt under Obama is called "inherited debt". Two unfunded wars do that.


The only folks who have money to invest in stocks are the 1%. How much have you invested in the last 5 years? Also, companies buy back their own stock to inflate the price.

Iraq devolved for 2 reasons: first, Iraq ordered us out under Bush, who agreed to do so.

Nope, debt is not the same as deficit, and Obama has the deficit down to almost where is was when he took office.

Really? How many of the 99% have a 401k and such? And if the companies are buying back their own stock to inflate the price, how is that a plus for Obama?

Didn't you just give credit to Obama for getting the troops out of Iraq? So he gets the credit for something that Bush did? But Bush gets the blame for something that happened under Obama? Is this like common core politics? You also didn't mention Libya, what was the effect of his actions regarding that? Or his involvement of US troops in Somalia, or trying to get Congressional approval for attacking them and also stating he had the authority to do so regardless of whether they consented or not?

For Afghanistan, in Dec 2007 there were about 25k US troops there, in Dec 2009 there were about 66k and Obama had ordered another 33k deployed there. There are currently about 10k there of which Obama has said he will leave. So yes Obama has reduced the number of troops there to lower than when he took office, after increasing it 4x.

You wrongly assume personal opportunity exists equally for all, in all parts of the country. Southwestern Indiana isn't southwestern Appalachia or southwestern Louisiana...

Nope, not at all. I don't have the opportunity to become a NBA or NFL player due to my physical abilities. And yes the opportunity exists equally no matter where you are, everybody has the opportunity to advance as far as they can, dependent on their abilities/desires. Or are you saying that folks in let's say south western Appalachia can't improve themselves enough to move elsewhere to where they can find more opportunities? Or are you saying that the govt should force businesses to move into those areas to provide more opportunities?

 

[david890]

Sorry david, I've got to agree with CM.
As I'm a Pipefitter, I can tell you an APPRENTICE (which is what CM said) does not make $25/hr on average, depending on location. Your bigger cities where the Union is stronger they will get a little more, but not usually starting at $25.

I never said $25/hr was a "starting" salary, that's the "average". We'd also need to see Median ($24) and Mode (not list) numbers before making another other conclusions. I have no doubt it's higher than the current $7.25/hr federal minimum wage.

A few years ago, Heavy Equipment operators were paying 1st year apprentices about $14/hr

Is that to start, the average of all operators, the median of all or the mode of all?

 

[david890]

I don't have the opportunity to become a NBA or NFL player due to my physical abilities.

That is not the kind of opportunity that I'm talking about, and you know it. A person with the physical abilities should (and probably would) be scouted, regardless of location. No one expects the NBA or NFL to hold tryouts for folks in a wheelchair, or 90-year-old veterans.

And yes the opportunity exists equally no matter where you are, everybody has the opportunity to advance as far as they can, dependent on their abilities/desires. Or are you saying that folks in let's say south western Appalachia can't improve themselves enough to move elsewhere to where they can find more opportunities? Or are you saying that the govt should force businesses to move into those areas to provide more opportunities?

A subsistence farmer in Bangladesh can be CEO of Apple, if they only have the desire and ability? Is that how it works??

A person making $7.25/hr in a region with high living expenses can just move? No job waiting, just hope there's one available? Using that logic, you should IMMEDIATELY quit your job and move. I have no doubt you could make more somewhere else. After all, whatever your particular skillset, there's a "highest paying job" somewhere else. Taking it away from the existing worker might be a problem.

 

[Woobie]

That is not the kind of opportunity that I'm talking about, and you know it. A person with the physical abilities should (and probably would) be scouted, regardless of location. No one expects the NBA or NFL to hold tryouts for folks in a wheelchair, or 90-year-old veterans.



A subsistence farmer in Bangladesh can be CEO of Apple, if they only have the desire and ability? Is that how it works??

A person making $7.25/hr in a region with high living expenses can just move? No job waiting, just hope there's one available? Using that logic, you should IMMEDIATELY quit your job and move. I have no doubt you could make more somewhere else. After all, whatever your particular skillset, there's a "highest paying job" somewhere else. Taking it away from the existing worker might be a problem.

So in light of all that, your solution is to raise the minimum wage to some magical level where everyone is happy?

Screw the guy that scraped his way to $15/hr. He's now making minimum wage again. He loses his purchasing power, but we really got the 1%, didn't we?

Screw the people making less than the new minimum wage. 1/2 of them will lose their jobs, but they'll be happy knowing the ones who kept them are making.....minimum wage.

Screw the owner who built the business with his own blood, sweat, tears, divorce, hair loss and poverty. He now has profit, so let's force him to lay off half his people and take a hit to his income just to keep the rest employed. Or between that and the ACA, maybe he'd be better off just closing the doors.

 

[churchmouse]

When I 1st hired into the trade I retired from I was minimum wage. $170 per.
I was happy to get the job as we were in the depths of a recession.
I learned very quickly from some really fine craftsmen and soon stepped up my game. The money came but only through me "BUSTING" my "A$$" to make it happen.
Then after a year or so and proving my worth I stepped up into the next level. It all came with "Time....."Hard work".....and me be willing to show my employer I was worthy.
There were no magic numbers to coddle me. There were no guarantees to make me feel comfortable. There were no laws that made it hard to fire me.
That is what made me extremely good at my craft. That is what put me at the top of the list when I wanted to move on from a position to another.
I.............................................wait for it......................."Earned" it.

What the hell has happened to this country. I am just so sad by all of this. Stop it. Make these snowflakes earn it. Work for the money. I actually had to have some serious skills to move up the pay scale. Holy Mother we are so doomed.

 

[HoughMade]

...Holy Mother we are so doomed

Maybe, but I take solace in the fact that I know several young people who are willing to start at the bottom, for minimum wage and to work hard for anything above that.

Want more than minimum wage, do your job in a way that proves you are worth more than minimum wage. I made minimum wage for about 6 months when I was 16. After that, i got my first raise and never made minimum wage again. My son (19) worked for minimum wage for almost a year, got a raise, and will probably never work for minimum wage again. It's a slow, hard hike up the ladder, but no one owes anyone anything other than to pay them what they agreed to work for.

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe, but I take solace in the fact that I know several young people who are willing to start at the bottom, for minimum wage and to work hard for anything above that.

Want more than minimum wage, do your job in a way that proves you are worth more than minimum wage. I made minimum wage for about 6 months when I was 16. After that, i got my first raise and never made minimum wage again. My son (19) worked for minimum wage for almost a year, got a raise, and will probably never work for minimum wage again. It's a slow, hard hike up the ladder, but no one owes anyone anything other than to pay them what they agreed to work for.

This is true I am sure. I know several young men that are willing to work.

The thing I am seeing are those who actually believe that increasing the minimum wage will do any real good.
These are entry level jobs or second jobs for those who may need the extra income. At least that is the way I see it.
This will only further trap the underachievers.

 

[BogWalker]

Let's fire up the printing presses and devalue our currency. Yeah! That'll really show those rich fat cats!

 

[david890]

These are entry level jobs THAT DON'T PAY A LIVING WAGE.

But, hey, what about that Obama apology to Laos???

/Lock the thread...

 

[Woobie]

But, hey, what about that Obama apology to Laos???

/Lock the thread...

Lol

I accept your surrender.

 

[BogWalker]

But, hey, what about that Obama apology to Laos???

/Lock the thread...

Why would we lock the thread? Sure, the conversation has derailed, but that's not really forbidden, and everyone has kept it pretty well civil.

But, yeah, 'bout Obama.

Obama: Americans Too ?Lazy? to Know Anything About the Rest of the World - Breitbart

Here he is badmouthing his own citizenry to a foreign nation.

 

[jdmack79]

but no one owes anyone anything other than to pay them what they agreed to work for.

I wish politicians thought the same way about teachers. I agreed to work for a certain rate and signed a contract stipulating what my pay would be. Per the contract, we're supposed to have small incremental pay increases yearly. I've been at the same school system for three years and have yet to receive an increase. It's pretty frustrating to have a contact saying I should be paid at a certain rate and yet I'm receiving so much less. I could make A LOT more money doing something mindless like driving a truck at Crane.

 

[Alpo]

Surprised this hasn't been posted in some manner but I don't believe it has. I just read where Obama has apologized for the United States bombing of Laos during the Viet Nam "conflict."

Anyone spending more than one day in Viet Nam knew the Viet Cong were using Laos as a travel corridor for North Vietnamese soldiers and supplies. Kinda made it hard to win a war when your Congress won't let the military engage the enemy due to a "boundary line" drawn by politicians.

Obama continues his apology tour(s). Makes me want to puke.

I don't think an apology is necessary. Maybe an "oops!"

But, we ought to clean up our messes. Your momma told you the same thing, I suspect.

 

[BugI02]

BugIO2 wrote (in blue):

Let's see:


- 73 months of continuous job growth Well, I'm sure FDR had quite a record of job growth too. Pretty easy when you start fron the ground floor

Having 1/3 of the country out of work isn't a great place to start. War also creates a lot of jobs.

From: Record 94,708,000 Americans Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Drops in May
A record 94,708,000 Americans were not in the labor force in May -- 664,000 more than in April -- and the labor force participation rate dropped two-tenths of a point to 62.6 percent, near its 38-year low, the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Friday. Glad you agree with me, david

- reduced deficit Yeah. Increase it 4x, then reduce that to 3.9x

National debt is not "the deficit". Also national debt under Obama is called "inherited debt". Two unfunded wars do that.

You are correct, I was thinking of the structural debt. So FY2008 deficit, in constant dollars $511.1 billion. FY2009 deficit $1578.8 billion Increase of 3.1x FY2016 estimated (CBO) $616 billion so fought that down to 1.2x
That picture seems better, but drilling down the smallest Obama deficit is bigger than any Bush deficit, except 2004 (which is a tie). So Obama added massively to the structural debt (that's how deficits get covered, you know) so I likely gave him too much credit (as in any) for marginally reducing the structural debt. I will concede we were referencing different quantities, which both look spectacularly bad for BHO


- stock market at historic highs Keep interest rates artificially low so more people will invest in stocks looking for a return that can beat (anemic) inflation. Bubbles often contain high points right before they pop

The only folks who have money to invest in stocks are the 1%. How much have you invested in the last 5 years? Also, companies buy back their own stock to inflate the price.

I do not have a pension, I have a 401K and a Roth. I am far from the 1%, but I have money to invest because my wife and I live well within our means and save 28% of our income. We also bought much less house than we could have afforded because we based our decision on what we rationally needed and spent more money on top neighborhood. I own quite a bit of stock, much of it selected using the Buffett method and weighted toward solid, dividend paying corporations

- troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan And about to go into Syria, while Iraq and Afghanistan devolve into similarly failed states

You have no evidence we're "about to go into Syria" in any substantial numbers. Certainly nothing like Iraq/Afghanistan.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/22/hillary-clintons-likely-pentagon-chief-already-advocating-for-more-bombing-and-intervention/

Iraq devolved for 2 reasons: first, Iraq ordered us out under Bush, who agreed to do so. The timeline put the withdrawal under Obama's tenure. Second, al-Maliki fired all military officers and dissolved the Baath party. These were majority-Sunni institutions in a majority-Shia country. Put 30,000 trained soldiers out of work, with no other options (given what the army and the Baath party had done under Saddam)and you get something like ISIS.

From: ​http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/iraq-who’s-blame
Consequently, eleven years since the invasion, Iraq is a state more deeply divided than it has ever been, with ethno-religious groups seeking co-optation rather than reconciliation and with political and ethnic entrepreneurs capitalizing on ethnic and sectarian cleavages. Fuelling this crisis is a perennial security vacuum created by an exogenous intervention and a botched state-building attempt by an occupying power. Thus, the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq in December 2011 effectively left a country in political, economic, and social turmoil with a weak security sector.


Equally damaging has been Maliki’s targeting of prominent Sunni-Arab politicians and his disinclination to govern inclusively and respond to Sunni and Kurdish demands and dissatisfaction with his party and government, which have cemented an increasingly divided political arena and society. Likewise, the reluctance of Sunni Arabs and Kurds to commit to an institutional solution to their political, economic, and social grievances, coupled with their disinclination to accept Shiite leadership has equally hampered the political process. Thus, the absence of national reconciliation and political figures able to handle the country’s range of problems—ethnic and communal fault lines, functioning institutions, protection for minority groups, lagging socioeconomic development, mounting corruption, and a crippled and failed security sector incapable of providing basic levels of order and stability—have collectively contributed to Iraq’s domestic instability. Perhaps a tie on this

- assassinated Scalia That was probably Sauron

Works for me!

.

 

[david890]

But, yeah, 'bout Obama.

Obama: Americans Too ?Lazy? to Know Anything About the Rest of the World - Breitbart

Here he is badmouthing his own citizenry to a foreign nation.

First, Breitbart? Really? The website whose CEO is Trump's campaign manager? Hardly impartial...

How does "you can feel lazy" conflate into "Americans too lazy"?

/Click-baitey headline...

 

[churchmouse]

But, hey, what about that Obama apology to Laos???

/Lock the thread...

Sigh......................So out of all that you sound bite me. We have seen this style many many times over around here.

What a total waste of time/energy.

Yes, this has been a very civil discussion about some points you have "Stressed" and we have dismantled handily.

 

[pudly]

I wonder when Obama will apologize for all of the countries he is responsible for bombing...

 

[churchmouse]

I wish politicians thought the same way about teachers. I agreed to work for a certain rate and signed a contract stipulating what my pay would be. Per the contract, we're supposed to have small incremental pay increases yearly. I've been at the same school system for three years and have yet to receive an increase. It's pretty frustrating to have a contact saying I should be paid at a certain rate and yet I'm receiving so much less. I could make A LOT more money doing something mindless like driving a truck at Crane.

Not being a wise guy my friend but you are free to go pursue a better job if they are not holding up their end.
I always did when this happened.

 

[david890]

From BugIO2 (who still doesn't know how "Reply with Quote" works...)

"A record 94,708,000 Americans were not in the labor force in May -- 664,000 more than in April -- and the labor force participation rate dropped two-tenths of a point to 62.6 percent, near its 38-year low, the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Friday."

Bullsh*t. If 95M are not in a labor force of 254M, that means 37% of eligible workers aren't participating. Are 1/3 of your neighbors sitting at home?

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/22...advocating-for-more-bombing-and-intervention/
SecDef has to be confirmed. You think the Senate confirm her? They won't even confirm Garland.

"Fuelling this crisis is a perennial security vacuum created by an exogenous intervention and a botched state-building attempt by an occupying power. Thus, the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq in December 2011 effectively left a country in political, economic, and social turmoil with a weak security sector.

Equally damaging has been Maliki’s targeting of prominent Sunni-Arab politicians and his disinclination to govern inclusively and respond to Sunni and Kurdish demands and dissatisfaction with his party and government, which have cemented an increasingly divided political arena and society."

So, you're suggesting the US should just ignore a treaty with Iraq? That treaty stated:

"The Bush Administration later sought an agreement with the Iraqi government, and in 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory".

So, just ignore that and keep troops there? BTW, thanks for confirming my claims re: al-Maliki (supported in his bid for office by GWB). He's a Shia, ran a Shia-dominated government, including the military. It was that Shia-populated military that ran in the face of Sunni-backed ISIS.

 

[david890]

Not being a wise guy my friend but you are free to go pursue a better job if they are not holding up their end.
I always did when this happened.

So, just quit and hope for the best? Is that how it works when the other party doesn't hold up their end? Sounds like you CONDONE - and possible support - Trump's refusal to pay contractors...