One-handed: straight vs bent arm?

[Coach]

Curious, why no Harries?

Because by the time I get into that position I can be done shooting using the others. Plus I may be braced with harries but I do not have any where near the same recoil control that I have with two hands. I teach it and demonstrate it in the low light teaching I do as an option and let the clients decide if it works for them.

 

[rhino]

My philosophy on SHO and WHO shooting is to only change the things I have to change. I want all of my freestyle shooting experience to help me not hurt me. I don't like change as a rule and I think doing things different SHO or WHO is counter productive.

I don't change the cant of the gun. I don't change my stance or shift my feet. I don't lean in different or doing anything special. If I am using a flashlight I will use the neck index technique or the FBI method. The neck index is close to what I do in the gun games. I use the same eye shooting WHO or SHO. So I am naturally doing what I do not something special.

With only 1 hand on the gun the gun is going to recoil differently than with 2 hands on the gun. I have to manually put the gun back on target following each shot to a much great degree than I have to do with two hands on the gun. That takes a little more time but not much. Everyone is better with two hands on the gun if they have a proper grip. But over all if I call my shots and press the trigger well I will be fine SHO. The same is true for WHO but it is much harder to do. I am not left handed. In the games SHO and WHO is mainly about the points. On the street it is about getting a good hit with the first shot. Essentially the same thing one just hurts more than the other.

We have talked about this outside of INGO a few times and you know we're on the same page. Another thing to consider is, when people choose to practice shooting one-handed in a special stance, they can get really good at shooting that way. But then what do they do if they can't stand that way when they need to shoot or doing what it takes to shuffle and adjust costs too much?

In USPSA, we see people shift their feet and body after the buzzer to shoot strong hand only. It invariably costs them time they can't really afford and they'd be better
served by learning to shoot with one hand regardless of the position of their lower body or torso. In a defensive or training situation, again you may not have time to shift you feet. Or, the movement you may need to make to make yourself harder to hit won't coincide with your special foot position for shooting one-handed. Or you might be sitting in car or knocked on the ground.

As with shooting with two hands . . . "stance is a luxury." If you have the opportunity to stand the way you prefer at no cost, then go for it. If you can't then it's a good idea to be able to shoot with both hands and either hand one at a time regardless of how you are standing or not standing.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Because by the time I get into that position I can be done shooting using the others. Plus I may be braced with harries but I do not have any where near the same recoil control that I have with two hands. I teach it and demonstrate it in the low light teaching I do as an option and let the clients decide if it works for them.

Good points!

This isn't a Harries vs two handed shooting discussion. It's a Harries vs FBI, etc. Harries is faster in that regard, especially for newer shooters.

The light is very mobile for me depending on the cover/structure. Leftward opening corners Harries is the only option.

 

[Trapper Jim]

No one can shoot the same splits SHO as they can with 2 hands on the gun and a proper grip. If you grip sucks you are shooting SHO and don't even know it. If you understand a few things about SHO shooting you can be pretty close to as fast. Someone like me who is not a fast runner the overall time on this stage should be close to the same with either set of tactics. A good SHO shooter and slow feet. Do what I did. Fast with the feet and suck at SHO then run and shoot your way back.

There is a best way to do it. But the same best way does not fit all people. I normally live and let live. But I saw some pretty stupid plans standing there watching two squads shoot it.

If you carry a gun for self defense. You should be practicing SHO. If you don't own 10-15 yards around you with your strong hand. You are not really armed. If you are a gamer. Many classifiers contain SHO. You should practice it. In both worlds you will be more well rounded if you practice it. WHO shooting as well.

I agree with ​

“In both worlds you will be more well rounded if you practice it. WHO shooting as well.”

And since it was brought up please keep in mind that the shooting purpose has come first in most of these discussions. There is nothing wrong with that as it is a sign of the times. I see many shooters entering the gun culture today with the sole purpose of defensive shooting. Many play the sports as an only practice in defensive training. While this can be fun and entertaining, I believe that the shooter should master the most complete art of shooting they can and then adapt to whatever cause they want or need the firearm for. Plinking, Hunting, Ranching, Security, M&P, Collecting ,and Defense are just some purposes. All of the shooting sports i.e Precision Pistol (Bullseye), F-Class, Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays, Action Pistol, PPC, SCSA, SASS, IHMSA, Gunsmithing, Handloading, History etc. are a great study ground. Freestyle, WHO, SHO, SWM, Prone, etc. are all great exercises but If we only practice what we like or are comfortable with, then we limit ourselves to that application. Just like driving, one should learn to drive a stickshift as well. Endeavor to expand your ability. But consider this, there are many people who have never learned to drive one or cared to if they even knew what one was. I know that many may not have the resources to expand into the whole arena but you might be surprised as to how little it takes to move yourself to a broader area. SHO only shooting is a good exercise and Bullseye Competition owns it for precision. By expanding your horizons, you do not limit yourself to practicing for one style that statistically and hopefully you will never use. At the same time the vast knowledge and skill set that one may achieve can enhance your defensive shooting skills. In other words become well rounded and use what you need when you need it.​

 

[rhino]

Good points!

This isn't a Harries vs two handed shooting discussion. It's a Harries vs FBI, etc. Harries is faster in that regard, especially for newer shooters.

The light is very mobile for me depending on the cover/structure. Leftward opening corners Harries is the only option.

. . . if you can do it.

Harries is difficult to do correctly for people with short, thick arms and thick torsos. In more cases, people don't even know how do to it properly in order to get as much support from the light holding arm as possible. A lot of that is because they're mimicking what they've seen (or think they saw) and lack the nuances that make the difference between a small amount of added support and just holding the backs of hands and wrists touching so it looks light.

 

[Jackson]

I personally use only the neck/head index. I don't find Harries (Harry's?) to be all that supportive and the gun ends up closer to my face than I prefer. I can't seem to use the sights as effectively like that. I find that punching the gun out and getting agressive behind it is just as good or better from a shooting perspective than the weak support of Harry's and bent arms.

The light is generally where it needs to be to see the sights well or its easy to adjust without thinking because it's close to my line of sight (adjustments are intuitive, I guess).

On another note, all this one hand talk has motivated me. My next three range sessions will be done completely with oe hand.

 

[rhino]

I personally use only the neck/head index. I don't find Harries (Harry's?) to be all that supportive and the gun ends up closer to my face than I prefer. I can't seem to use the sights as effectively like that. I find that punching the gun out and getting agressive behind it is just as good or better from a shooting perspective than the weak support of Harry's and bent arms.

The light is generally where it needs to be to see the sights well or its easy to adjust without thinking because it's close to my line of sight (adjustments are intuitive, I guess).

On another note, all this one hand talk has motivated me. My next three range sessions will be done completely with oe hand.

After I took my fall at Parabellum and my shoulder was to jacked-up to draw, I shot a Steel Challenge match weak hand only.

 

[lonehoosier]

After I took my fall at Parabellum and my shoulder was to jacked-up to draw, I shot a Steel Challenge match weak hand only.

I have done this many times and I can tell you I’m glad I’ve done this along with practicing because I’ve had two surgery on my strong side elbow in the last year. I feel very confident carrying weak side.

 

[riverman67]

I haven't done a ton of low light work but I have been exposed to the many different ways to hold said light while shooting.
This harries thing would be my last choice. Neck or head index the first choices.
Harries just flat feels weird and while I'm sure with enough reps this could be remedied I don't think for me there are any benefits to doing it.

I practice SHO and WHO regularly
not enough but regularly.

 

[devildog70]

I'm a fan of neck index and FBI. I find Rogers to be the most stable, but based on a ton of low light training, and also based on research others have done, flashlights tend to stay in the position they started in at the beginning of the conflict. Unless you start in Rogers, or Chapman, or Harries, the chances of you ending up there are slim to none. For me, if I am using a handheld light, it is specifically because I don't want my light married to my muzzle. For times where it is ok for my light to follow my muzzle, I have WML's (and yes, all of my carry guns have lights).

 

[Jackson]

So, does anyone have any specific drills or exercises they like to run with one hand?

 

[riverman67]

I usually start with with slow fire groups to determine just what type of a **** show that particular session is going to be.
If that works out. I move on to multiple targets/shots per target. Transitioning to SHO or WHO after a reload things like that.
I dont usually get too crazy when working with one hand attempting to improve the shooting is hard enough.

 

[cedartop]

So, does anyone have any specific drills or exercises they like to run with one hand?

Yes.

 

[Jackson]

Yes.

Thanks for that detailed and informative post, Mike.

Care to share any favorites?

 

[Trapper Jim]

Yes.

Yes. I like to shoot 50 yards at a bull’s-eye target with one hand to try to score a 88 or higher. I use a model 41 and model 19.

 

[Jackson]

Yes. I like to shoot 50 yards at a bull’s-eye target with one hand to try to score a 88 or higher. I use a model 41 and model 19.

Which bullseye do you use? An NRA B-6?

 

[Trapper Jim]

Which bullseye do you use? An NRA B-6?

B-6 yep. I use the square backers and invest in the whole target instead of repair centers

 

[cedartop]

Thanks for that detailed and informative post, Mike.

Care to share any favorites?

Sure,

Vickers 300 NRA B-8 Bullseye repair center. No time limit.

5 yards WHO 10 rds
10 yards SHO 10 rds
20 yards FS 10 rds

The goal here is to shoot 300. I am happy to keep them all in the black. This is a good warm up and works for me trigger control and patience.

Fixed time standards. 3 USPSA targets 1 yard between edges.

10 yards 2 shot on each from the draw and transfer to WHO. 4 seconds is the goal par. I am at 5 right now.
20 yards 2 shots on each from the draw SHO. same par.
30 yards 2 shots on each FS from the draw. Same par.

Clearly these two drill come at things from different directions but both are drills I use frequently as in almost every time I live fire.