Open carry on my own property

[churchmouse]

Asking because I don’t know.

So, if you lived in the city and had a sidewalk in your front yard with grass between that and the street, stepping on the sidewalk which is surrounded by YOUR property would be illegal, without a LTCH?

Are you supposed to push the mower over it and then JUMP across the sidewalk? How about if you went around the sidewalk on your driveway, if the dsidewalk stopped and started at your driveway?

i could see the street, but that seem ludicrous really.

Reality check here my friend. In most areas you own the property down to the sidewalk. A least that is how it is in our area. That big patch of grass between the walk and the street belongs to the city. Yes we have to mow it but they own it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Asking because I don’t know.

So, if you lived in the city and had a sidewalk in your front yard with grass between that and the street, stepping on the sidewalk which is surrounded by YOUR property would be illegal, without a LTCH?

Are you supposed to push the mower over it and then JUMP across the sidewalk? How about if you went around the sidewalk on your driveway, if the dsidewalk stopped and started at your driveway?

i could see the street, but that seem ludicrous really.

The curb strip isn't, generally, your property in the same way your lawn is. You can't fence it in, trespass someone from it, etc. You may be on the hook for maintaining it, but it's a gov't easement and is public. I honestly don't know how it would shake out in Indiana, but I suspect a sympathetic jury might side with you regardless.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

I would just get the ltch and then not have to worry about it.

 

[JettaKnight]

Nice word Tom. Education with information I like it!

Morgan88

"curtilage sweet curtilage" turns up nothing on Google... till now.




EDIT: It took less than 24 hours for Google to index this.

 

[HoughMade]

With in your cartilage no license is necessary concealed or openly carrying is totally legal.

...but is quite painful.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I would just get the ltch and then not have to worry about it.

This. I even recommend this to people who dont want to carry, but do want to go to the range. It makes it MUCH less of a headache during transport. And, as a bonus, if you ever DO decide to carry, you are ready.

Is there a particular reason you dont want to get a license?

 

[Wstar425]

Reality check here my friend. In most areas you own the property down to the sidewalk. A least that is how it is in our area. That big patch of grass between the walk and the street belongs to the city. Yes we have to mow it but they own it.

You might be right. I’m not in Indiana, maybe that makes no difference?

I always thought home owner paid taxes to the middle of the street and municipality had some distance of right away. 22 feet sticks in my brain, but I wouldn’t go to court over that. How that would shake out as far as property ownership per open carry, I have no idea. We have no license open carry here, so that is not really an issue. We have a Conceal Carry License, and open carry is basically not addressed. The CCL makes it easier to drive, as of right now getting into a car in Wisconsin while open carry turns you into a concealed carrier.

I’m going to city hall to pay my water bill this aft, you’ve piqued my interest, I’ll ask a few questions.

 

[JettaKnight]

You might be right. I’m not in Indiana, maybe that makes no difference?

I always thought home owner paid taxes to the middle of the street and municipality had some distance of right away. 22 feet sticks in my brain, but I wouldn’t go to court over that. How that would shake out as far as property ownership per open carry, I have no idea. We have no license open carry here, so that is not really an issue. We have a Conceal Carry License, and open carry is basically not addressed. The CCL makes it easier to drive, as of right now getting into a car in Wisconsin while open carry turns you into a concealed carrier.

I’m going to city hall to pay my water bill this aft, you’ve piqued my interest, I’ll ask a few questions.

Well... that certainly changes the legality. You probably should have lead with that fact.

 

[KellyinAvon]

You might be right. I’m not in Indiana, maybe that makes no difference?

I always thought home owner paid taxes to the middle of the street and municipality had some distance of right away. 22 feet sticks in my brain, but I wouldn’t go to court over that. How that would shake out as far as property ownership per open carry, I have no idea. We have no license open carry here, so that is not really an issue. We have a Conceal Carry License, and open carry is basically not addressed. The CCL makes it easier to drive, as of right now getting into a car in Wisconsin while open carry turns you into a concealed carrier.

I’m going to city hall to pay my water bill this aft, you’ve piqued my interest, I’ll ask a few questions.

Like Jetta said, that kind of info is particularly important in this case. The default setting on Indiana Gun Owners is Indiana law. I crossed four State-lines yesterday, every one brought something new.

 

[HoughMade]

...I always thought home owner paid taxes to the middle of the street and municipality had some distance of right away. 22 feet sticks in my brain, but I wouldn’t go to court over that... I’ll ask a few questions.

Um...yeah. Definitely don't go to court over it and certainly ask some questions.

As for where you can carry without a license in a state other than Indiana, don't assume that our state law is the same as yours. Also, the term "curtilage" was used above- assuming that applies in your state (I don't know), know that curtilage is not the entire property you own. In Indiana (also as mentioned above), you are not limited to curtilage.

 

[alabasterjar]

You might be right. I’m not in Indiana, maybe that makes no difference?

I always thought home owner paid taxes to the middle of the street and municipality had some distance of right away. 22 feet sticks in my brain, but I wouldn’t go to court over that. How that would shake out as far as property ownership per open carry, I have no idea. We have no license open carry here, so that is not really an issue. We have a Conceal Carry License, and open carry is basically not addressed. The CCL makes it easier to drive, as of right now getting into a car in Wisconsin while open carry turns you into a concealed carrier.

I’m going to city hall to pay my water bill this aft, you’ve piqued my interest, I’ll ask a few questions.

According to the android app CCW:

"Open carry legal, permit not required. Some restrictions apply:
Per 948.605 (2), you cannot carry in a school zone without a license. Per 29.089, you cannot carry on state park land without a license, except if you are hunting with approval. Per 941.237, you cannot carry where alcohol is sold for consumption without a license. Other restrictions may exist.
Per WI Supreme Court Ruling carry in a vehicle requires a permit.

Note: While open carry without a permit is not prohibited by law, law enforcement interpretations and reactions can vary. Contact local authorities with any questions."

IANAL, YMMV, but it appears that you 'may' be able to walk down the sidewalk w/out a permit/ license. The wild card here is that Wisconsin may allow preemption; i.e. your town/ city may be allowed to have rules more stringent than the state.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Asking because I don’t know.

So, if you lived in the city and had a sidewalk in your front yard with grass between that and the street, stepping on the sidewalk which is surrounded by YOUR property would be illegal, without a LTCH?

Are you supposed to push the mower over it and then JUMP across the sidewalk? How about if you went around the sidewalk on your driveway, if the dsidewalk stopped and started at your driveway?

i could see the street, but that seem ludicrous really.

Route 45 answered your question correctly. Yes, given you had to mow that patch of grass, which is public property that you're responsible for maintaining, you would be breaking state law. The same goes for the sidewalk. Petty? Yes. The only exception I see is if you live in a gated community (where the streets are privately owned).

State law compels you to have an LTCH to carry on public property. I think it's ludicrous that one even has to have a license to carry. The supreme law of the land says that bearing arms is an inalienable right. Getting at LTCH is a lot easier, less expensive, and less time consuming than fighting a criminal case.

 

[alabasterjar]

Route 45 answered your question correctly. Yes, given you had to mow that patch of grass, which is public property that you're responsible for maintaining, you would be breaking state law. The same goes for the sidewalk. Petty? Yes. The only exception I see is if you live in a gated community (where the streets are privately owned).

State law compels you to have an LTCH to carry on public property. I think it's ludicrous that one even has to have a license to carry. The supreme law of the land says that bearing arms is an inalienable right. Getting at LTCH is a lot easier, less expensive, and less time consuming than fighting a criminal case.

If in Indiana. OP is apparently in Wisconsin, see post 27.

If you were in a gated community, I suspect LTCH would still come into play on the sidewalk, as that might still be private property (unless you had explicit permission from the owner). A potential mess no matter what.

OP, save up those beans so you can ask the crown for permission to exercise a right!

 

[JettaKnight]

If the sidewalk is in front of my house, it's mine and I own it.
If the sidewalk is in front of a school, they don't own, it's public property.

 

[HoughMade]

The only exception I see is if you live in a gated community (where the streets are privately owned)...

If you were in a gated community, I suspect LTCH would still come into play on the sidewalk, as that might still be private property (unless you had explicit permission from the owner)...

What if a guy lives on a private road ("street" is a little shishy 'round here), no sidewalk, but he owns an undivided 1/10th share of the private road? No gates.

Asking for a friend?

 

[eldirector]

What if a guy lives on a private road ("street" is a little shishy 'round here), no sidewalk, but he owns an undivided 1/10th share of the private road? No gates.

Asking for a friend?

I bullet for your 10-round magazine?

 

[Raskolnikov]

If in Indiana. OP is apparently in Wisconsin, see post 27.

If you were in a gated community, I suspect LTCH would still come into play on the sidewalk, as that might still be private property (unless you had explicit permission from the owner). A potential mess no matter what.

OP, save up those beans so you can ask the crown for permission to exercise a right!

I did miss that he is from WI, and I can't answer his question with any certainty. As far as the gated community in Indiana goes, if an arrest were made, I'd argue A) he has a contractual interest in the property; B) the street is private and receives no public funding; C) as an owner of the property, he automatically has permission to be there. You'd also have to look at the agreement made to live in such a comunity. For example, if one lived in a condo, can he step out into the shared hallway with a firearm? I'd argue that he could.

What if a guy lives on a private road ("street" is a little shishy 'round here), no sidewalk, but he owns an undivided 1/10th share of the private road? No gates.

Asking for a friend?

That's a good question. Sounds like something that would be heavily litigated in court if an arrest were made. I'd argue that since the road is private, and he is a partial owner, that the law does not apply to him.

 

[KittySlayer]

Some great internet legal advice here. From a practical standpoint I would mention that you should probably ask yourself why you are asking this question. If you simply want to be armed for the same reason all of us carry then you received the information you need and proceed with having the tools you deem appropriate for your self defense. And not to drift into an open carry debate but...

If your goal of open carrying on your property is to intimidate or scare your neighbors through your actions or comments you may want to rethink your plan. While you might be able to dot all the "i"s and cross all the "t"s from a legal standpoint such behavior would be inappropriate.

 

[HoughMade]

...That's a good question. Sounds like something that would be heavily litigated in court if an arrest were made. I'd argue that since the road is private, and he is a partial owner, that the law does not apply to him.

Hmmm.....$300/hr for attorney vs. $140ish for new lifetime LTCH.....

 

[Cameramonkey]

I did miss that he is from WI, and I can't answer his question with any certainty. As far as the gated community in Indiana goes, if an arrest were made, I'd argue A) he has a contractual interest in the property; B) the street is private and receives no public funding; C) as an owner of the property, he automatically has permission to be there. You'd also have to look at the agreement made to live in such a comunity. For example, if one lived in a condo, can he step out into the shared hallway with a firearm? I'd argue that he could.



That's a good question. Sounds like something that would be heavily litigated in court if an arrest were made. I'd argue that since the road is private, and he is a partial owner, that the law does not apply to him.

Point of order: OP is not Poster #27. Jlane is the OP, not Wstar45. Jlane indicated he (she?) is in Allen County. I guess there could be an Allen county in another state too, but more likely here.

As you were.