Overkill for burned out license plate

[j706]

Do people actually give you reputation points for the things that come out of your mouth? Everything that worries me about the future of our liberty is represented in this thread. No rights are safe when we have people taking such joy in the humiliation and oppression of others. BOTH of these videos ARE A DISGRACE!!




Looks like he runs into a lot of rights-stomping situations. I've got news for you, roadside checkpoints are blatantly unconstitutional. The pastor has some die-hard principles and some big cajones. Unlike his government counterparts.




Just because they think that "THEY ARE THE LAW" doesn't make their orders LAWFUL.

While you are laughing as government oppresses us, our forefathers are crying.




What 3rd World dictatorship do.... nevermind.

Done arguing with you...ignore list you go.

 

[j706]

It seriously makes me want to puke knowing a LEO gets satisfaction out of tasing a person, giving them an "electric ride", and making them "scream like a girl"... Seriously, WHY would you find this comical!?

On another note...

I see nothing wrong with the person being present while the dog sniffs the vehicle. Why should he not be able to see the dog alert to his property? Would you not want the same for yourself? I don't trust ANYONE else's word...I want to see it with my own eyes.

Whether or not you see anything wrong with someone being in a car during a sniff means nothing to be blunt. Most K-9 officers want the car empty for a sniff.

As for someone being able to see the K-9 alert on their car, most people would not know if a K-9 alerted or not. I have been down that road with a few know it all's. And besides it is not required.

 

[XMil]

Done arguing with you...ignore list you go.

A true act of bravery.

 

[dross]

Whether or not you see anything wrong with someone being in a car during a sniff means nothing to be blunt. Most K-9 officers want the car empty for a sniff.

As for someone being able to see the K-9 alert on their car, most people would not know if a K-9 alerted or not. I have been down that road with a few know it all's. And besides it is not required.

Your view seems to be that you will use your powers under the law to their maximum extent at your discretion. Your view also seems to be that a citizen acting "weird" or rude, or like a jerk, then allows you to use whatever power you have.

You also seem to think that if I have a perfectly working license plate that then burns out while I'm driving, I now have surrendered many of my rights. You can stop me for the light, you can order my passengers to produce ID, you can make me exit the vehicle, and if I argue with you during all this, you can handcuff me and then go get a drug dog to sniff my vehicle.

All because my light burned out and I didn't treat you exactly in the way you wanted me to.

Do you really not see a problem with this, or are you so into being a cop that you can't see the citizens' side of this? Can you not see how this makes a mockery of being secure in our persons?

 

[rambone]

This clown squealed like someone was cutting his head off with a pocket knife. A wuss I would say. A drama queen.

Wow.

Speaking of which...

Done arguing with you...ignore list you go.

That's cool man, I figured I was on your ignore list already the way you have no comebacks to anything I say. Its easier to hide than it is to justify the indefensible.

I'll keep debating you as if you were paying attention. I get too much rep trashing your crazy posts.

 

[SirRealism]

Too bad we don't have the "authority" to handcuff/taze/detain cops who act like johnsons. I guess that's one of the perks of the job.

ETA: I wrote that hastily, and I wanted to explain. My only point is that, just because someone's a jerk, he doesn't give up his rights, nor do I think he should be put through hell. If I encounter someone who wants to act like a jerk (LEO, civilian, whoever), I try to limit my exposure to that person... finish business and get on with the day. I do understand why a LEO might think someone who asserts his right not to answer questions and acts weird might be hiding something. But I'm very concerned if someone wants to use his authority just to return the favor, especially if rights are trampled.

 

[dross]

Too bad we don't have the "authority" to hancuff/taze/detain cops who act like johnsons. I guess that's one of the perks of the job.

Oh crap, now you went and did it.

I suggest a cyber-umbrella for you.

 

[Pocketman]

Many a criminal has been found because he/she acted strangely. Routine traffic stops often flush out illegal activities, warrants, contraband, etc.. When the driver started being "uncooperative" the officer's natural instinct alerted to the possibility of something more serious going on. The officer also has to consider the safety of himself, his fellow officers, occupants of the car and passing motorists.

I think what we see here is the result of what happens when both sides become irrational. Sure, we all have rights, but we should also have common sense and courtesy. It's situations like the one in the video that needlessly get people hurt.

 

[Compatriot G]

Whether or not you see anything wrong with someone being in a car during a sniff means nothing to be blunt. Most K-9 officers want the car empty for a sniff.

As for someone being able to see the K-9 alert on their car, most people would not know if a K-9 alerted or not. I have been down that road with a few know it all's. And besides it is not required.

Apparently, the K-9 officer involved in the incident with the Border Patrol didn't know whether his K-9 actually alerted or not.

ARE THEY ALL YOURS?!??: border patrol abuse

 

[CorvetteTom]

Too bad we don't have the "authority" to hancuff/taze/detain cops who act like johnsons. I guess that's one of the perks of the job.

I vote... 'Quote of the Year'!

 

[SirRealism]

Oh crap, now you went and did it.

I suggest a cyber-umbrella for you.

I guess I should have prefaced that with the usual "not all cops, but a few". But I take that as a given that we're just talking about the ones who act like jerks. I have no idea what percentage that is; I try to limit my exposure to law enforcement, courts, etc.

 

[MinuteMan47]

As for someone being able to see the K-9 alert on their car, most people would not know if a K-9 alerted or not. I have been down that road with a few know it all's. And besides it is not required.

Good point. How would anyone know....?? And, maybe you have trained the dog to alert to ketchup packets or something...

...mustard packets if the dog is "dual purpose".

 

[dross]

Many a criminal has been found because he/she acted strangely. Routine traffic stops often flush out illegal activities, warrants, contraband, etc.. When the driver started being "uncooperative" the officer's natural instinct alerted to the possibility of something more serious going on. The officer also has to consider the safety of himself, his fellow officers, occupants of the car and passing motorists.

I think what we see here is the result of what happens when both sides become irrational. Sure, we all have rights, but we should also have common sense and courtesy. It's situations like the one in the video that needlessly get people hurt.

I think you hit on the problem. It was "strange" and outside the officer's experience to encounter a citizen who asked the officer why his passengers had to produce ID, and why he had to exit the vehicle. The officer is probably used to meek compliance and someone who treated him as another man instead of a boss probably alerted his spidey senses.

"Wow, this guy wants to know why I need ID for a burned out license plate light. He must be dangerous."

I get it now.

 

[Pocketman]

I think you hit on the problem. It was "strange" and outside the officer's experience to encounter a citizen who asked the officer why his passengers had to produce ID, and why he had to exit the vehicle. The officer is probably used to meek compliance and someone who treated him as another man instead of a boss probably alerted his spidey senses.

"Wow, this guy wants to know why I need ID for a burned out license plate light. He must be dangerous."

I get it now.

I am not defending the officer's actions. From my perspective, the motorist started out acting like a jerk. The officer should have been professional enough to not get sucked in.

 

[rambone]

When the driver started being "uncooperative" the officer's natural instinct alerted to the possibility of something more serious going on. The officer also has to consider the safety of himself, his fellow officers, occupants of the car and passing motorists.

Maybe he should have just given the driver his tax-slip and went on his way. Some people just want to be left alone. Every cranky driver doesn't need to be humiliated, sniffed with dogs, and treated like the Taliban. Let them go and do something else!!

 

[SirRealism]

I think what we see here is the result of what happens when both sides become irrational. Sure, we all have rights, but we should also have common sense and courtesy. It's situations like the one in the video that needlessly get people hurt.

I agree... irrationality on either side is bad. And common sense and courtesy are all too often lacking all around.

But.... while it can be argued that both sides turned a molehill into a mountain, it makes sense for people to know what their rights are and know how to assert them. Sure, had the guy rolled his window down and complied with everything the officers asked, he would probably have been on his way with much less hassle. But that's not always the case. Because the average guy doesn't have the authority a LEO has, his rights are all he has.

 

[XMil]

I just want to chime in with the idea that not playing 20 questions with a cop is not "rude". Nor is it rude to refuse to comply with unnecessary requests from a cop no matter how strenuously he or she lies telling you that you have to.

 

[dross]

Sure, had the guy rolled his window down and complied with everything the officers asked, he would probably have been on his way with much less hassle.

Yep. And there are lots of places around the world where just producing "your papers, pleez" will get you right on your way. It always goes easier on if you comply meekly with those in authority.

I know you weren't advocating that.

 

[dross]

I just want to chime in with the idea that not playing 20 questions with a cop is not "rude". Nor is it rude to refuse to comply with unnecessary requests from a cop no matter how strenuously he or she lies telling you that you have to.

Isn't this really the crux of the issue? The cops know when they can demand, and when they must ask. The trick is that they can make a request sound like a command, and you don't know the difference. Even if you're correct, they have a couple of "outs" like officer safety or spontaneous probable cause, or any number of other ways to make it your fault.

I've heard it said that if a cop can legally make you do something, he doesn't ask, and he doesn't argue. I think we saw this in the video. They kept trying to find ways to get the passengers out of the vehicle, including giving the request like it was a lawful order.

 

[j706]

Your view seems to be that you will use your powers under the law to their maximum extent at your discretion. Your view also seems to be that a citizen acting "weird" or rude, or like a jerk, then allows you to use whatever power you have.

You also seem to think that if I have a perfectly working license plate that then burns out while I'm driving, I now have surrendered many of my rights. You can stop me for the light, you can order my passengers to produce ID, you can make me exit the vehicle, and if I argue with you during all this, you can handcuff me and then go get a drug dog to sniff my vehicle.

All because my light burned out and I didn't treat you exactly in the way you wanted me to.

Do you really not see a problem with this, or are you so into being a cop that you can't see the citizens' side of this? Can you not see how this makes a mockery of being secure in our persons?

A citizen acting weird like this guy was doing, and he was acting real weird irregardless if anyone else agrees or not, then yes I will use everything in my power that is legal to determine what is going on. It may be that they are just having a bad day or they are just defiant. 99.9% of the people I meet are decent people that cooperate. I know and understand that. I know most people work hard to scrap by and the last thing they need is a ticket to pay. As a result I write very few citations for the minor things. But it is our discretion. If someone chooses to act like a fool than they get what they get. This freak turned a simple little traffic stop into a big drama fiasco. Both of his stops to be precise.

Passengers and the driver can be ordered out of the vehicle. There is no debate on that. Do most officers do that? No they do not. But when the conditions warrant removal then out they are coming whether they want to or not. This guy refused to answer a question about a weapon. That alone would do it.

As for the wielding of our powers, I am very restrained in doing so myself. I can guarantee you that if you was to get stopped you would want to be stopped by someone like me. I don't want to come across as tooting my own horn but I treat people with respect. Even the ones I arrest. As a result in my 13 years I have never had a complaint where I was found to have done wrong. On the other hand I have ran across more than a few drivers like this one. I took whatever cautions the situation warranted. There is no doubt than on one incident had I not done what some would call jackbooted thug stuff, either me or the driver would have been shot. This guy was acting just like the guy in OP. As a result I removed him from his vehicle forcibly after he failed to comply with my orders. He ended up being a freshly paroled murderer with nothing to loose. He was armed and when myself and another officer removed him he attempted to get his stolen gun into action. He later told the BATF that he was full well planning on shooting his way out of the stop.

As I have already posted, this guy was totally unrealistic and unreasonable. He was looking for a confrontation and he found one...no wait he found two!!

As for really "so into being a cop" actually no I am not. I gotta admit I thing the job sucks big time and dread going to work every night.

This thing can be argued to the sun burns out. The facts are the guy has a attitude and has no respect for the law or those that represent it. I did a little digging on the incident and he is on record whining about the border patrol the Texas DPS,the judge and the prosecutor. He drives around with a video camera for Christs sack! IMO he is out looking for a big payday. I think he will be disapointed. Then he will be on youtube whining about how his lawyer screwed him over. The guy is a tool. He has some problems and attempts to justify them by claiming rights violations.

My rant is over. Been up since 1700 yesterday and the little brain is crapping out. I am not posting on this thread anymore. I am not convincing anyone and there sure isn't anyone convincing me to change my mind.

Peace All.