Overkill

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

"I'd rather have and not need it, than need it and not have it" sounds about right.

 

[youngda9]

While I agree that no one should ever need more than that, you also can NOT be over prepared.

I would like to squash this fallacy. You CAN be over prepared. If he was running around wearing body armor, and a helmet many would think he is over-prepared. If he was wearing a radiation suit around town because he was fearful of a reactor explosion(when there is no reactor around) we would all say he is over-prepared. I could make up stuff like this for hours.

We are over-prepared if we carry things that we never NEED, Period. If we all carried 2 extra mags, then 99.9% of us ARE over prepared. The odds of us needing our guns are tiny, the odds of us needing to fire our guns are smaller than that, a typical gunfight lasts 3-5 rounds, a typical gunfight is over in just a few seconds, VERY few civilian gunfights require reloads(can anyone provide links to some because I've never read about it in the thousands that I've read about)...so YES, clearly he is OVER PREPARED. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

(JoshuaW, sorry to quote directly from you, but I see this thought from many others on the forum as well)

 

[runandgun44]

But of course you're paranoid. You're paranoid for owning, let alone carrying a gun. OMG! Don'tcha know those things are dangerous?! Nobody needs a gun! Well, except for the police and military, but that's different.
And did you get permission from "the authorities" to carry that thing, after turning in your fingerprints, personal information, SSN and being investigated and entered into the gun owner/carrier database? Oh, you did, eh? Well, I guess you're OK, but nobody needs more than six rounds. And cover that thing up! What're ya, tryin' to show off or scare people? Oh, it is covered up. That must mean you're up to something. Or you're just paranoid.

A knife, you say? Don'tcha know those things are dangerous?! Whad'ya need with a knife? Nobody needs to carry a knife around. What kind of knife? You're just paranoid.

Went and got some training, huh? What're ya training for? That must mean you're paranoid!

What have you got hidden in those bags? Groceries, you say. How many? What kind? Stocking a weeks worth, you say. Nobody needs more than one or two days worth of groceries. You're not stocking, you're hoarding. What're you planning? You're just paranoid!

Mind your own ****'n business, you say. What've you got to hide?
You're just paranoid.

LOL, reminds me of this from the movie "Tommyboy"
Employee at gas station "I'm picking up on your sarcasm."
Richard "I should hope so, I'm laying it on pretty thick"

The first time I started considering high capacity and extra mags was when I read a story about a guy from Texas. I think his name was Terri Neel. Anyway, he was on his way to the range when he saw three gang bangers shoot down a LEO. He engaged them with a 9mm. He was able to keep them pinned down as he went through magazine after magazine (15 rounders, I think) until back up arrived. Ended up saving the LEO's life.

I'm not thinking I need all the extra ammo to shoot one BG 50+ times. More along the lines of, what if I am outnumbered 3 to 1? Or more.

Not to disparage, but one guy mentioned he only carries 2 rounds in his gun. Even if you carry 6 or more what if you are confronted by multiple BG's all armed? I guess you can play "what if" all day.

 

[patton487]

I always carry at least one extra mag, along with a back up.

 

[Notavictim646]

In the unlikely event that a person is ever in a self defense shooting, whether or not he/she was over prepared may be judged in the courts. Remember, a jury of your peers may not mean people who think like you do or are willing to look at it from your point of view. I would expect there are more cases of folks losing their life savings defending their actions in court than there are folks who would be alive if they had just had a third Magazine.
IMO the balance is somewhere between staying home all dressed up in body armor, and being in a place I know better than to be in when I've no real business there. To each his own. Hope it's all academic

 

[JoshuaW]

I would like to squash this fallacy. You CAN be over prepared. If he was running around wearing body armor, and a helmet many would think he is over-prepared. If he was wearing a radiation suit around town because he was fearful of a reactor explosion(when there is no reactor around) we would all say he is over-prepared. I could make up stuff like this for hours.

We are over-prepared if we carry things that we never NEED, Period. If we all carried 2 extra mags, then 99.9% of us ARE over prepared. The odds of us needing our guns are tiny, the odds of us needing to fire our guns are smaller than that, a typical gunfight lasts 3-5 rounds, a typical gunfight is over in just a few seconds, VERY few civilian gunfights require reloads(can anyone provide links to some because I've never read about it in the thousands that I've read about)...so YES, clearly he is OVER PREPARED. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

(JoshuaW, sorry to quote directly from you, but I see this thought from many others on the forum as well)

I dont mind, dont apologize.

See, you might say someone is over prepared, but if someone can carry that stuff, or wear it, and be fine with the extra hassle, more power to them. I see what you are saying, that technically if you never use it, you are over prepared. I get that.

However, it is a trade off. It is no problem for me to carry 25 rounds (and 50 more in my car). I should never need 25 rounds. Heck, I should never need 1 round. However, if I do, I will be happy I have it. if I wanted, I could carry a gas mask and bio hazard suit in a bag if I wanted, or I could stash it in my car. I have both items (different story entirely).

My point is that you may technically be over prepared, but why does it matter? If it doesnt bother whoever it is that is carrying whatever it is, then it doesnt matter. Only an individual can determine if they feel "over prepared". There is a reason people dont walk around with gas masks and bio hazard suit, it is a pain. Its uncomfortable. Those are compromises that we make. Same thing with firearms. I could carry a full auto SBR under a coat with 1000 rounds worth of reloads. I would be fully equipped to handle ANY situation I faced. I dont, because that is over prepared to me (and I cant afford it).

In the unlikely event that a person is ever in a self defense shooting, whether or not he/she was over prepared may be judged in the courts. Remember, a jury of your peers may not mean people who think like you do or are willing to look at it from your point of view. I would expect there are more cases of folks losing their life savings defending their actions in court than there are folks who would be alive if they had just had a third Magazine.
IMO the balance is somewhere between staying home all dressed up in body armor, and being in a place I know better than to be in when I've no real business there. To each his own. Hope it's all academic

In Indiana at least, I dont think that is the case. We arent a state with ruthless anti-gun, anti-defense prosecutors looking to screw us over. I think the threshold here is pretty high. If you are carrying a G17 with five 33 round mags, someone will ask some questions, but a good shoot is still a good shoot. Someone carrying a couple extra 17 round mags, I dont think it is that big of deal. It would also be something that your lawyer would help you with. If you were involved in a shoot, and you had five 33 round mags in your car, I am pretty confident that your lawyer is not going to want to volunteer that information. If you ended up using it, and its still a good shoot, I dont think anyone at will care. You were prepared enough to save your life, maybe even the lives of others.

There are things that I think might come back to bite someone. Suppressors are one of those items. I know a couple members have them on their home defense guns. I understand why, you dont want to go deaf trying to protect your family, but that is something that might get a jury thinking, and misunderstanding. Anything full auto would draw that same attention.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

IMO, one can never have enough spare ammo, or spare mags, speedloaders, etc. You never know when you may come up against that person or persons that require more than "seconds."

Remember the old saying: " When you're in a room full of bad guys that want to kill you, the only question you have to ask is this: Which one gets it first?"

I certainly wouldn't call carrying spare ammo, etc. as "overkill." I would call it "being prepared."

 

[ATM]

If I am ever forced to kill, I think overkill would be much preferred to underkill.

Underkilling does not always stop the threat.

 

[Whosyer]

Any particular reason you dont carry more? I think this is the first time I have ever heard anyone on here own up to carrying so little. Im sure people have, no one just admits to it. Props to you, whether its just because thats what you have, or if you have some real reason. Carry is carry, better than nothing.

Mainly because I've been having issues with my back this summer. You would be surprised how much the extra weight from a) larger sidearm B) spare mags c) other doo dads , adds to the stress on 2 bad discs and arthritic hips. I carry 4 extra rounds. (2 in each front pocket for balance)That gives me the same amount of ammo as a revolver. It's only a 2 shot, but it is a .45 Colt .(down side being reloading every 2 rounds)I do however, usually , have a long gun in my truck. Besides, most people describe me as "that big scary looking hillbilly ". If I were a criminal,and saw a guy that was as ugly as me, I'd look for an easier mark.

 

[Field King]

If you're asking, then you already know that you are over-doing it. Why in the world do you feel the need to carry 52 rounds?

IMHO, a civilian not living in gangville should need no more than a reliable autoloader. 17+1 sounds like PLENTY. If you're around for 18 shots you should already have retreated and gotten the heck out of that fight.

depends on situation, react and retreat or PHD the enemy? I tend to carry light but change it up at times

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

One of my buddies asked how I could carry my Charter five shot snubby and feel protected. I answered that if it got to that fifth round and I wasn't already running, I was effing up. As several above have stated, whatever feels best for YOU is best, but I'm carrying to protect myself, not to engage in the gunfight at the OK corral.

 

[Eulogy32]

It depends on what I'm carrying. I either carry my 9mm with 13+1 with no extra mags, or my .45 with 8+1 and 1 extra mag. 14 and 17 rounds, respectively, should be plenty. If I have to fire more than that, I'm either already dead, or too stupid to run away.

But, it's all about what makes you feel comfortable to get you through the day unharmed. If having a full-size gun with 50 rounds of ammo and a BUG is what makes you comfortable, that's fair. I'm just not very high-maintenance in the comfort department. I also don't live in a warzone, which helps me stay comfortable.

 

[geronimojoe85]

I always carry with two spare reloads. That's what uncle Sam told me to do. If it's good enough for him it's good enough for me. I also carry extra ammo in the car. Plus a shotgun. The police carry shotguns in the car why shouldn't I? Heck, these days most police have shotguns and ARs in the car.

 

[H&R12G]

I've been Mulling this over in my hatrack. This is what I've come up with. I'm sure it's been said already, but I wanna say it. (Gets on soapbox)

I think you all are wrong because you are all right. (No offense to anyone, making a point.) Why is that? Because some people feel comfortable with more and some are fine with what they got. Let's say I'm okay with a Raven .25. I wouldn't carry that, but let's say I would here. I'm comfortable with that. As opposed to one of you who let's say isn't comfortable unless you have an 870 in your trunk, a 1911 on your hip, an M92 under your jacket and a hand grenade in your glovebox. Am I wrong for having too little? Yes. Are you wrong for having too much? Yes. Because this is more of an opinion than an answer. This is really a poll, not a question. ANd it's good we have Forums for this reason. Not just firearms forums, but all forums. We can get answers, opinions, and make new friends thorugh these. And all opinions are respected, though not all are agree-able due to our own differences. But even then we all have something in common because we all belong to the same forum. I myself belong to three forums, 2 firearms and one Ford forum for this reason. So, keep giving your opinions. We need them to learn from. We need to learn so we can teach our kids and grandkids, and our knowledge can be passed down through the generations So, to each's own. I hope no one was offended or took my little spiel the wrong way. Respect to all. (Does a Carl Edwards backflip off his soapbox.)

Do what you think is COMFORTABLE both mentally and phsically. Don't weigh yourself down to where you give yourself back problems or anything.

 

[Prometheus]

I think the opinion that what no is right or wrong is wrong.

Here is why, for the eldery person or the physically challanged, a revolver may be all they can handle. Carrying a full size semi automatic handgun may not be practical because they can't opperate the slide, aside from other concerns such a recoil.

Cowards... a single shot derringer may be all you need if your first thought is to run away, after all, if you can't get away, you only need one shot to end yourself.

In all seriousness, most people will never need their carry gun. Should you need it, you will need it more than you've ever need any other inanimate object in your life.

Do you really want your only option to be substandard?

Hit percentages for LEOs are 12 to 17% depending on the study. If you shoot as well as the average cop, you're only landing hits (not stopping shots, just hits) 1 out of 5 shots, if your lucky. Are you lucky?

I've heard some people say they don't want to carry an expensive handgun in case they need to use it and the cops may take it, so they carry a keltec... how ridiculous is that? I want my most reliable handgun I have in a gun fight. If that was a keltec over a Llama, great. If it's a Springfield TRP over a gLock, even better.

For me, daily carry is a Springfield XD or XDm or a TRP 1911. The most likely reason for needing a spare mag is for a malfunction (although I've never had one in my XDm or TRP even after 500-700+ consecutive rounds of non cleaning). Also for me, if I'm carrying a spare mag, all my pouches hold 2 mags, so if I've got the XDm it's two spare 19 round mags, if it's the TRP it's two spare 8 round magazines. I feel equally well prepared with 58 rounds of 9mm on tap or 25 rounds of .45.

When it comes to a backup gun, it's just too easy to drop a s

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Prometheus makes a valid point about hit percentages. That said, I'm still not gonna carry a 226 with two 20 round mags backup everwhere I go. Like lots of us, I don't live in a war zone. As far as quality, also a valid point. But I'm comfortable with the reliability of my Kel Tecs, so I'm gonna keep carrying them. The old Raven? Probably not. The only reason I keep it is because of the man who used to carry it in his golf cart as he roamed Orange county.

 

[patience0830]

One is none.

As Clint Smith says, "One is none and two is one." It applies to flashlights, guns, and anything else that is mechanical and you have to depend on to save your life. B.U.G. is, consequently a good idea. Work on the deployment mechanism for your self defense method too. Get some excercise. Hard to keep a steady bead on the bad guys if you get winded crossing the room.
NO ONE here is more responsible for your safety and the safety of those you love except you. Do what you think is right and makes you feel safe. I carry one gun and a reload where ever I can do so legally. Two reloads if I have the mags. One folding knife and my leatherman at all times. Instruments designed for swatting where ever I can stash one where it might prove handy. And my 1100 next to the bed.

Its been said before and I'll reiterate it. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody is NOT out to get you.

 

[Jack Ryan]

There has been an evolution to my carry habits over the years.

Started with a small pocket semi auto. 6+1 rounds. At the time it seemed sufficient
Next went to a full sized, 15+1.
Later started carrying an extra 15 round mag

Now, after reading about and seeing on video many real life gunfights. I carry a sidearm with 17+1, and 2 more 17 round mags in a double mag holder. I also carry a NAA .22 for a backup. And of course a good folding knife goes without saying.

My wife says I'm overkill. Am I just paranoid or is anyone else overkill with their daily carry?

If you are carrying a gun and what some one else thinks about it matters, you are paranoid. The fasionistas are out to get you.

 

[runandgun44]

If you are carrying a gun and what some one else thinks about it matters, you are paranoid. The fasionistas are out to get you.

I knew it!!

 

[IndySSD]

If you're asking, then you already know that you are over-doing it. Why in the world do you feel the need to carry 52 rounds?

IMHO, a civilian not living in gangville should need no more than a reliable autoloader. 17+1 sounds like PLENTY. If you're around for 18 shots you should already have retreated and gotten the heck out of that fight.

Retreat is great.... when you can.

What cracks me up is you think someone is justified carrying a large quantity of ammo if they live in "Gangland". So I drive through / around several very "criminally active" areas per week, does that mean I'm out of line because I ALWAYS have 1-2 spare mags on me instead of just when I go to "Gangland"?

I personally think the Mall is one of the most dangerous places to go. So often I see people of less than impeccable judgment eyeballing people as they enter and exit the mall.


Actually I was outside Greenwood park mall the other night for 45 mins or so while the wife ran right inside the Macy's door to pick up her pre ordered makeup. She pulled up in a parking spot in front of the door and I stayed in the car to feed our little guy. During that time I saw the same vehicle with three young men drive by that entrance four times. Two of those times the jackbag in the back seat leaned out of the window talking smack to young women exiting the mall.

Situations like this make me think of scenarios where I may need to engage multiple BG's with no chance of retreat. (I'm not leaving my wife inside this mall if these jackbags decide to start grabbing up these women).

Just saying...

Sounds like your ready to make the news in a BIG way.

Sounds like you're from the government and you're here to help. You apply for the new future crime unit of the IMPD?

"I'd rather have and not need it, than need it and not have it" sounds about right.

Amen Brother, Amen.

I would like to squash this fallacy. You CAN be over prepared. If he was running around wearing body armor, and a helmet many would think he is over-prepared.

So if someone wears a concealable soft armor they are over prepared?

What if that person works security somewhere, what if they have been previously robbed or threatened?

What if they live near a hunting / shooting area and are worried about getting hit by a random stray shot .

If he was wearing a radiation suit around town because he was fearful of a reactor explosion(when there is no reactor around) we would all say he is over-prepared. I could make up stuff like this for hours.

What if someone wants to OWN a radiation suit in case something radioactive around, is he overprepared then?

Sure you could make crap up for hours, I have no doubt of that.

We are over-prepared if we carry things that we never NEED, Period. If we all carried 2 extra mags, then 99.9% of us ARE over prepared. The odds of us needing our guns are tiny, the odds of us needing to fire our guns are smaller than that, a typical gunfight lasts 3-5 rounds, a typical gunfight is over in just a few seconds, VERY few civilian gunfights require reloads(can anyone provide links to some because I've never read about it in the thousands that I've read about)...so YES, clearly he is OVER PREPARED. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

(JoshuaW, sorry to quote directly from you, but I see this thought from many others on the forum as well)

Man, I hope you never get into a SHTF moment with multiple BGs, sounds like you won't know what to do when the BG's don't stop shooting at you within 3-5 shots.

If I am ever forced to kill, I think overkill would be much preferred to underkill.

Underkilling does not always stop the threat.

If I'm ever forced to extract someone or myself from a hostile situation, more rounds = more cover fire.

Who likes moving across open areas without cover fire? No one smart..

One of my buddies asked how I could carry my Charter five shot snubby and feel protected. I answered that if it got to that fifth round and I wasn't already running, I was effing up.

See, again, my biggest fear is that my wife will be in Macy's and I will have wandered down to Radio Shack or UniversiT's and there will be some sort of "event" between us.

Or, if we're somewhere like Best Buy or Costco when some disgruntled moron comes in and starts shooting people.

We often break apart for 5-15 minutes at a time to look in separate areas of a store. If something bad happens and I need to secure my family, I'll be prepared to do so. I don't feel prepared if all I have on me is my Rossi .44 spcl.

Now, depending on who has our son I've got 1 or two loved ones with SHTF in between, I'm not going to just LEAVE her there and I can't guarantee that I can provide myself cover fire or eliminate all threats with 5 shots.

That's just me.

As several above have stated, whatever feels best for YOU is best, but I'm carrying to protect myself, not to engage in the gunfight at the OK corral.

I agree with the first statement, however I differ in my philosophy in regards to carry for protection purposes.

I carry to protect myself, my family and other loved ones from whatever may occur, not just one specific type of threat.

If you are carrying a gun and what some one else thinks about it matters, you are paranoid. The fasionistas are out to get you.

Yeah, I really don't give a crap about what anyone really thinks about what I do.

I do what I do for my wife, child and other loved ones....not for anyone else.

Besides, all the sheeple and barely there carry supporters rarely notice I'm carrying anything at all.