Pence: Indiana’s red flag law could serve as blueprint...rest of the country

[DoggyDaddy]

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1168602589254029313

And yet they still blame Indiana. How about Indiana blame Chicago for exporting their criminals to Gary, Hobart, Indianapolis, Lafayette, etc... Then again, Democrats aren't too keen on taking responsibility for their own actions (ie. releasing criminals back onto the street, or turning a blind eye atogether), because that would be racist 'n stuff. It's always someone else's fault.

Maybe Indiana should build a wall.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think a majority of police departments have policies that require officers accused of domestic violence to be temporarily stripped of gun and shield and placed on desk duty. We have only to see how often a false report of DV is used as a way to get back at a former spouse during a less than amicable divorce to see where this is going

In the absence of serious penalties for making false accusations, the first rule of gun owners club should likely be you don't talk about gun owners club. If people are willing to SWAT people who p*** them off, you can bet they'll red flag them just as readily

Agreed. In a perfect world, a false accuser would receive the exact same punishment the accused would have gotten or did get as punishment.

 

[MCgrease08]

We have inverted the idea that 100 guilty men should go free rather than one innocent person should suffer...but in the vain search for safety, this isn't really a surprise.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/09/pa...-nbc-call-it-a-massive-arsenal/#ixzz5yJ4B2wuY

To the actual cases presented above, reasonable people would probably come to some agreement that those in the act of committing a crime should be acted upon. But the laws in many states only requires (what appears to me) little more than hear say.

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/09/pa...-nbc-call-it-a-massive-arsenal/#ixzz5yPJsuQAm

According to Lieutenant Dennis Rosenbaum of the Philadelphia Police Department, unless the family petition the courts to get the firearms back, they will be destroyed. Rosenbaum seems to think the family will not request to get the guns back.

“I don't think they're going to be trying to get the weapons back,” Rosenbaum told NBC. “I've talked to the family today as of an hour ago and they just don't want them to wind up in the wrong hands. They seem to be very nice people.”

So let me get this straight. The default isn't, 'we took your guns away, but determined you aren't a threat, so we'll give them all back to you.' But instead, 'your family doesn't think you should have these, so we're going to destroy them unless those same family members that don't think you should have them change their mind and petition us to return them to you.'

**** that ****. This system is ripe for abuse and confiscation pure and simple.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So let me get this straight. The default isn't, 'we took your guns away, but determined you aren't a threat, so we'll give them all back to you.' But instead, 'your family doesn't think you should have these, so we're going to destroy them unless those same family members that don't think you should have them change their mind and petition us to return them to you.'

**** that ****. This system is ripe for abuse and confiscation pure and simple.

But they seem to be very nice people...

 

[Denny347]

Is not due process going to a location with an issued warrant in hand? Rather than any officer at a scene making a judgement call that an actual judge should be making?

I'm not a lawyer or a doctor, but I don't think that any officer that might be sent to a red flag call is either?

Due process is being treated fairly. Just like making an arrest, depriving liberty, upon probable cause. We need PC to seize guns but they must be in plain view or with permission. We do need a warrant to seize weapons not in plain view, after taking someone into custody.

 

[woowoo2]

This gentleman is on another forum I visit, it can happen to you.

https://www.providencejournal.com/n...-north-smithfield-man-20k-in-gun-seizure-case


Richer sued the town, its police chief, and various officers in 2015 over the department’s refusal to return three lawfully owned guns after his now ex-wife called to report that he had tried to overdose on pills. Although Richer explained that he was not suicidal and that his wife had misconstrued their conversation, police forced him to submit to a mental health evaluation and seized his guns for “safe-keeping.”

The doctor who saw Richer discharged him shortly after his arrival, and no charges were ever filed, the ACLU said. Richer tried to retrieve his guns, but the police told him he needed to get a court order.

 

[bwframe]

How easily/timely do your red flagged firearms come out of the Indianapolis property room, when the judge orders it?

Other counties?

 

[DadSmith]

This gentleman is on another forum I visit, it can happen to you.

https://www.providencejournal.com/n...-north-smithfield-man-20k-in-gun-seizure-case


Richer sued the town, its police chief, and various officers in 2015 over the department’s refusal to return three lawfully owned guns after his now ex-wife called to report that he had tried to overdose on pills. Although Richer explained that he was not suicidal and that his wife had misconstrued their conversation, police forced him to submit to a mental health evaluation and seized his guns for “safe-keeping.”

The doctor who saw Richer discharged him shortly after his arrival, and no charges were ever filed, the ACLU said. Richer tried to retrieve his guns, but the police told him he needed to get a court order.

This is exactly one of the reasons why I am against red flag law. No court order to take them yet a court order to get them back really? How backward is that?
I am truly disappointed in my state. We use to be a Conservative beacon now we are turning into Illinois.

 

[Denny347]

This is exactly one of the reasons why I am against red flag law. No court order to take them yet a court order to get them back really? How backward is that?
I am truly disappointed in my state. We use to be a Conservative beacon now we are turning into Illinois.

Is it the law or the dept acting outside of that law?

 

[Trigger Time]

Is it the law or the dept acting outside of that law?

This is why the people need to unite. That department wouldnt be able to stop 2,000 people walking in there and taking that mans stolen guns back.
Cops are not above the law. Judges are not above the law. Prosecutors are not above the law. This idea that many of them have amongst themselves that they are untouchable needs to end.
Start locking them up for this kind of ****

 

[cbhausen]

All of this new gun control talk and red flag law talk has had a very chilling effect on me. From now on I’m going to STFU about what I’ve got and where it is. I should’ve adopted this policy along time ago but it’s never too late to start. Everything feels different this time and I can’t see the outcome being anything but negative when the dust settles.

 

[DadSmith]

All of this new gun control talk and red flag law talk has had a very chilling effect on me. From now on I’m going to STFU about what I’ve got and where it is. I should’ve adopted this policy along time ago but it’s never too late to start. Everything feels different this time and I can’t see the outcome being anything but negative when the dust settles.

Maybe this is the lefts way of shutting up gun owners? This law needs to be challenged in court and if need be all the way to the SCOTUS.

It doesn't take a Harvard education to understand this law violates our 4th Amendment.

 

[Ark]

All of this new gun control talk and red flag law talk has had a very chilling effect on me. From now on I’m going to STFU about what I’ve got and where it is. I should’ve adopted this policy along time ago but it’s never too late to start. Everything feels different this time and I can’t see the outcome being anything but negative when the dust settles.

That's the point of these laws. To shut your mouth, stop your activism, stop your advocacy, and to stop you from speaking out against the grabbers' propaganda for fear of getting red flagged.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Red Flag Laws. Here’s a possible scenario of what could happen...


It’s a Sunday night and your family has all gone to bed. You let the dogs back in and lock the deadbolt like you do every night. All the lights are off now except a couple of night lights scattered throughout the house leaving that dim glow throughout your home. It’s bedtime and work and school are going to come early in the morning. You crawl in bed, kiss your wife and drift off to sleep being thankful for the air conditioning that allows you to pull that heavy quilt up over your shoulder despite the fact it’s still 85 degrees outside. A few hours pass...


0200 Monday morning and your wife taps your leg and says, “baby I heard something outside”. As you sit up in bed you hear the dog growling in the living room and you know something isn’t right. Nobody yelled "Police" so you are cautious. You grab that trusty ole 870 and head into the living room. Your wife grabs her 9mm and heads down the hall to the kids rooms just like you have rehearsed. “Good boy” you say as you enter the living room, trying to calm both the dog and your wife just as splinters fly across the room and the front door flys open. “Oh ****!” As you shoulder your weapon and send a load of 00 Buck across your living room and see the perpetrator fall in a heap. Before the “thank God” can even run across your brain, you see a second man coming in the door and you fire again. This time you hear the pop of your wife’s 9mm as she has joined in the fight. It has to be those damn meth heads from down in town! Just then you are consumed by a wall of bullets as you see multiple muzzle flashes from just outside the door and you realize something isn’t right. You turn to yell at your wife to “get down” just in time to see her take a load of buckshot to the face and her brain matter splatter the wall behind her. You feel the burning as 5.56 bullets Riddle your body. One clips your spine as you’re scrambling away and paralyzes your lower body. The last thing you see before you bleed out is a SWAT guy from your local PD holding your teenage daughter on the floor with a knee in her back as she screams and cry’s because she just watched her parents being murdered.


Why did this happen? You’re no criminal. You’re a Conservative and an honest family man. Your wife is a school teacher and your daughters are on honor roll. Why did this happen?


Well two days ago, you and your wife went down to welcome the new neighbors to the community. Your wife made them some of her “world famous” cookies and you invited them to church on Sunday. Later that afternoon, you got a friend request on Facebook from your new neighbor, which you gladly accepted. They seemed a little odd, but in the few minutes you talked they were pleasant enough. The next day while you and your family sat in church, your new neighbor scrolled through your Facebook profile. He saw that “Trump 2020” post and got infuriated. See, he’s a staunch liberal and he hates your kind. The next thing he sees are the hunting pictures you took last fall when your daughter bagged her first buck. Now he’s seething with fury because he is wholeheartedly against the “slaughter of innocent animals”. Next he sees your post from the last range day with your buddy and sees those scary black assault weapons on the table and that does it! He has to do something about the racist domestic terrorist living next door. He picks up the phone, calls the local Sheriffs Office and reports you as a threat under the new Red Flag law. The SO follows their SOP’s and conducts a no knock warrant because you have now been denied due process and you are considered guilty until proven innocent.


Now you, your lovely wife and two deputies have been killed for nothing. Your daughter will have absolute hell for the rest of her life. She will never be that successful person you dreamed for her to be because of the mental tragedy caused from seeing her parents murdered. The local news paper will report that you were killed after firing on and killing two deputies and that “over a thousand rounds of ammo and 12 guns were confiscated from your residence”.


Oh, those two deputies were just following orders. They left behind families as well and had served their community for over a decade. They didn’t know you were a stand-up guy with a great family. They weren’t allowed time to investigate things under due process. They were told you had threatened your neighbor and were out in the street waving an AR15 around. (You didn't)


This is the reality of Red Flag gun laws.


Innocent people will lose their lives.


Red Flag laws will be used for petty and vengeful reasons without merit.


They must be Stopped !

 

[churchmouse]

I see these laws being weaponized by the self centered. It is more the norm in this politicly charged environment we have created

 

[cbhausen]

All of this new gun control talk and red flag law talk has had a very chilling effect on me. From now on I’m going to STFU about what I’ve got and where it is. I should’ve adopted this policy along time ago but it’s never too late to start. Everything feels different this time and I can’t see the outcome being anything but negative when the dust settles.

I never said I was going to curb my activism. OPSEC will be much tighter, though.

 

[MarkC]

I see these laws being weaponized by the self centered. It is more the norm in this politicly charged environment we have created

Unfortunately, this has always been true, such as when once domestic partners report their former loved one to get an advantage. Protective orders have long been used as weapons by less-than-honest individuals. Unfortunately, with the decline of civility and broad adoption of Alinsky's rules, the danger seems to be heightened.

Fortunately, the General Assembly improved due process for red flag proceedings during the last legislative session.

Nothing we can do as individuals or a society can prevent the malicious or the manipulative from engaging in their mischief. Treating false reporting more seriously than we do now would be a good step forward, IMO.

 

[HoughMade]

woman called because her adult son was supposedly suicidal. The son was depressed over being fired and said he thought about killing his old boss and then himself. We took his guns...

What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Red Flag Laws. Here’s a possible scenario of what could happen...


It’s a Sunday night and your family has all gone to bed. You let the dogs back in and lock the deadbolt like you do every night. All the lights are off now except a couple of night lights scattered throughout the house leaving that dim glow throughout your home. It’s bedtime and work and school are going to come early in the morning. You crawl in bed, kiss your wife and drift off to sleep being thankful for the air conditioning that allows you to pull that heavy quilt up over your shoulder despite the fact it’s still 85 degrees outside. A few hours pass...


0200 Monday morning and your wife taps your leg and says, “baby I heard something outside”. As you sit up in bed you hear the dog growling in the living room and you know something isn’t right. Nobody yelled "Police" so you are cautious. You grab that trusty ole 870 and head into the living room. Your wife grabs her 9mm and heads down the hall to the kids rooms just like you have rehearsed. “Good boy” you say as you enter the living room, trying to calm both the dog and your wife just as splinters fly across the room and the front door flys open. “Oh ****!” As you shoulder your weapon and send a load of 00 Buck across your living room and see the perpetrator fall in a heap. Before the “thank God” can even run across your brain, you see a second man coming in the door and you fire again. This time you hear the pop of your wife’s 9mm as she has joined in the fight. It has to be those damn meth heads from down in town! Just then you are consumed by a wall of bullets as you see multiple muzzle flashes from just outside the door and you realize something isn’t right. You turn to yell at your wife to “get down” just in time to see her take a load of buckshot to the face and her brain matter splatter the wall behind her. You feel the burning as 5.56 bullets Riddle your body. One clips your spine as you’re scrambling away and paralyzes your lower body. The last thing you see before you bleed out is a SWAT guy from your local PD holding your teenage daughter on the floor with a knee in her back as she screams and cry’s because she just watched her parents being murdered.


Why did this happen? You’re no criminal. You’re a Conservative and an honest family man. Your wife is a school teacher and your daughters are on honor roll. Why did this happen?


Well two days ago, you and your wife went down to welcome the new neighbors to the community. Your wife made them some of her “world famous” cookies and you invited them to church on Sunday. Later that afternoon, you got a friend request on Facebook from your new neighbor, which you gladly accepted. They seemed a little odd, but in the few minutes you talked they were pleasant enough. The next day while you and your family sat in church, your new neighbor scrolled through your Facebook profile. He saw that “Trump 2020” post and got infuriated. See, he’s a staunch liberal and he hates your kind. The next thing he sees are the hunting pictures you took last fall when your daughter bagged her first buck. Now he’s seething with fury because he is wholeheartedly against the “slaughter of innocent animals”. Next he sees your post from the last range day with your buddy and sees those scary black assault weapons on the table and that does it! He has to do something about the racist domestic terrorist living next door. He picks up the phone, calls the local Sheriffs Office and reports you as a threat under the new Red Flag law. The SO follows their SOP’s and conducts a no knock warrant because you have now been denied due process and you are considered guilty until proven innocent.


Now you, your lovely wife and two deputies have been killed for nothing. Your daughter will have absolute hell for the rest of her life. She will never be that successful person you dreamed for her to be because of the mental tragedy caused from seeing her parents murdered. The local news paper will report that you were killed after firing on and killing two deputies and that “over a thousand rounds of ammo and 12 guns were confiscated from your residence”.


Oh, those two deputies were just following orders. They left behind families as well and had served their community for over a decade. They didn’t know you were a stand-up guy with a great family. They weren’t allowed time to investigate things under due process. They were told you had threatened your neighbor and were out in the street waving an AR15 around. (You didn't)


This is the reality of Red Flag gun laws.


Innocent people will lose their lives.


Red Flag laws will be used for petty and vengeful reasons without merit.


They must be Stopped !

This was sent to me by a friend and I thought.. no.. but then I’ve been seeing more cases of the law in action and gave it another look. Yeah, it’s an unfortunate possibility.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I Was A Gun Confiscator

https://www.deltabravocharlie.com/h...boD_9hYUnFcdbgfK_NMrnJu2urHyWXwgB9ZE98I8WnG9g