PEOPLE, PLEASE STOP FOR SCHOOL BUSES!!!!

[d.kaufman]

Hobart PD released this:

"Stop Arm Violation Campaign

We are providing local school bus drivers with a new form for reporting violations. We cover 3 school districts, and all will be asked to participate. If they see a violation, they can record a plate number and vehicle description and location on the form. This information will be forwarded to SRO’s and patrol officers to investigate to file charges on the offense. The officers can list the driver as a truthful and credible witness and the law puts the burden of proof on the registered owner to prove it was not them driving the vehicle.

Second, we will put police officers on random buses that are experiencing the most violations. Officers will relay vehicle and plate information to area patrol cars to stop and cite the drivers when violations occur. We will do this because we understand that the bus drivers’ job is difficult enough to have the focus and timing to get a plate number.

Finally, we will focus patrols on areas of repeated violations as reported by the bus drivers. They are the local experts on where these things happen. We already frequently stage officers in areas of complaints from the general public. The problem, at times, is that the violation in that area is so infrequent that the opportunities for enforcement are difficult. In addition, our patrol officers handle 30,000+ Calls for Service a year. Being in the right place to catch these violations can be a challenge.

Bus driver reporting should collect information on 99% or greater of the actual violations. Our efforts on the bus or watching the routes should do the rest. Our goal is voluntary compliance but we will not hesitate to stop you, and take the necessary action to keep the buses safe.

IC 9-21-12-1 Arm signal device; duty to obey; presumption
Sec. 1. (a) A person who drives a vehicle that:
(1) meets or overtakes from any direction a school bus stopped on a roadway and is not stopped before reaching the school bus when the arm signal device specified in IC 9-21-12-13 is in the device's extended position; or
(2) proceeds before the arm signal device is no longer extended;
commits a Class A infraction.
(c) There is a rebuttable presumption that the owner of the vehicle involved in the violation of this section committed the violation. This presumption does not apply to the owner of a vehicle involved in the violation of this section if the owner routinely engages in the business of renting the vehicle for periods of thirty (30) days or less.

(b) A person who operates a vehicle and who recklessly passes a school bus stopped on a roadway when the arm signal device specified in IC 9-21-12-13 is in the device's extended position commits a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it causes bodily injury to a person.

I think most people would agree that the penalty for Violating a Stop Arm should be greater but we are going to step up our efforts at enforcement and let the legislature worry about the law. In this effort, we will take a multi-step approach to enforcement, which will have zero tolerance.

Chief Richard Zormier"

My wife has played a huge roll in getting this implemented. She has been complaining all year as cars keep blowing thru my daughters bus stop. After months of calling and complaining and getting the run around she was finally able to talk to the head of transportation on Tuesday. She sent this lady over 15 videos of cars blowing thru the stop. Finally good to see some action being taken

 

[singlesix]

So in this case guilty until proven innocence?

 

[actaeon277]

So in this case guilty until proven innocence?

?
She didn't run.
Her vehicle was busted up.
What is there to prove?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

So in this case guilty until proven innocence?

?
She didn't run.
Her vehicle was busted up.
What is there to prove?

I think SingleSix was referring to this:

Hobart PD released this:

"Stop Arm Violation Campaign

We are providing local school bus drivers with a new form for reporting violations. We cover 3 school districts, and all will be asked to participate. If they see a violation, they can record a plate number and vehicle description and location on the form. This information will be forwarded to SRO’s and patrol officers to investigate to file charges on the offense. The officers can list the driver as a truthful and credible witness and the law puts the burden of proof on the registered owner to prove it was not them driving the vehicle.

I thought we decided, in the Kavanaugh Confirmation thread, that the burden of proof shouldn't be on the accused?

 

[singlesix]

I think SingleSix was referring to this:



I thought we decided, in the Kavanaugh Confirmation thread, that the burden of proof shouldn't be on the accused?

Correct

 

[eldirector]

Same as stop light cameras. Parking tickets, too. Goes to the registered owner. One reason, among many, no one drives my cars but me or my wife.

 

[FWP9MM]

If you see flashing yellow around a curve, during harvest time, in a rural area, I can see how you’d think tractor. Once we’ve decided what we see it’s hard to change gears when our eyes see something different, esp when nervous about dad and maybe a few grumpy kids in the car for being up and out so early.

i can see it. Just sucks

I was talking to my wife about this Friday morning while out driving rural roads around 7am driving to meet her parents for a dr. appt. What I found interesting was at a distance it was hard to tell what a vehicle was.... farm equipment, semis, box trucks, school busses, etc. they look similar at a distance. One thing they all have in common is amber lights up top and red tail lights. Coming around a curve could have also placed the stop arm at an angle making it harder to see.

What came out of our discussion is that it would be nice to see school busses use different color lights, such as green, up top to distinguish that it is a school bus. For example, when you come up on a police car with its red and blue lights.... you know it is the police.

I read that the school district has since moved the bus stop. Admission of partial responsibility or not, I think there was some agreement that the bus stop was not in a good spot.

Tragic situation that has destroyed the lives of several families. I pray that they can find comfort, peace and forgiveness in the Lord.

 

[alabasterjar]

I was talking to my wife about this Friday morning while out driving rural roads around 7am driving to meet her parents for a dr. appt. What I found interesting was at a distance it was hard to tell what a vehicle was.... farm equipment, semis, box trucks, school busses, etc. they look similar at a distance. One thing they all have in common is amber lights up top and red tail lights. Coming around a curve could have also placed the stop arm at an angle making it harder to see.

What came out of our discussion is that it would be nice to see school busses use different color lights, such as green, up top to distinguish that it is a school bus. For example, when you come up on a police car with its red and blue lights.... you know it is the police.

I read that the school district has since moved the bus stop. Admission of partial responsibility or not, I think there was some agreement that the bus stop was not in a good spot.

Tragic situation that has destroyed the lives of several families. I pray that they can find comfort, peace and forgiveness in the Lord.

So tell me why it matters if the flashing reds or flashing ambers is a bus, a tractor, a fire truck, or a utility truck? I'm sorry, but as a utility worker that gets the opportunity to play in traffic more often than I would like, I am amazed at the total lack of awareness from a vast majority of the drivers out there. Most are not aware that Indiana's "Move Over, Slow Down" does not only apply to "emergency" vehicles (i.e. fire, police, ambulance), but ALL emergency vehicles. Maybe this was a bad place for a bus stop, maybe not; this is NOT the bus drivers fault, nor is it the school system's fault. This rests solely on the shoulders of the gal driving inattentively.

 

[FWP9MM]

So tell me why it matters if the flashing reds or flashing ambers is a bus, a tractor, a fire truck, or a utility truck? I'm sorry, but as a utility worker that gets the opportunity to play in traffic more often than I would like, I am amazed at the total lack of awareness from a vast majority of the drivers out there. Most are not aware that Indiana's "Move Over, Slow Down" does not only apply to "emergency" vehicles (i.e. fire, police, ambulance), but ALL emergency vehicles. Maybe this was a bad place for a bus stop, maybe not; this is NOT the bus drivers fault, nor is it the school system's fault. This rests solely on the shoulders of the gal driving inattentively.

Why does it matter?
Same reason we use differnt colors for road signs, traffic lights, red & blue lights on police vehicles, red & white on ambulances and Fire Trucks. To quickly identity vehicles and road hazards. The problem with amber lights is that they are on damn near everything on the road.

While she should have slowed down even for farm equipment she obviously didn’t. If she though it was farm equipment on the opposite side of the road she was not thinking emergency personnel, Utility workers, a school bus stopping to pick up kids that were crossing the road.... but again farm equipment. Had there been a universal color of light to identify School Bus, it may have clicked quicker that it was a school bus and she may have stopped.

I never said it was the bus drivers fault. But as a parent would you want your kid crossing a road in the dark in a 55mph zone or would you prefer them to be picked up on the same side of the road? Obviously same side of the road is almost always a safer choice no matter what stretch of road. So again one could argue that the school district could have done a better job on laying out the bus route. We will see if lawsuits are brought against the school and what approach the lawyer take.

I agree that it rests on her shoulders, a mistake she will ultimately bear for the rest of her life.

 

[actaeon277]

"What does it matter?" refers to the fact that she already didn't take the warning for the yellow lights, so why would she take the warning for any other color lights?

 

[actaeon277]

Maybe if TV stations put all the car incidents on TV, like they do with gun incidents, people might remember that they are operating a dangerous piece of equipment.

 

[Spear Dane]

Why does it matter?
Same reason we use differnt colors for road signs, traffic lights, red & blue lights on police vehicles, red & white on ambulances and Fire Trucks. To quickly identity vehicles and road hazards. The problem with amber lights is that they are on damn near everything on the road.

While she should have slowed down even for farm equipment she obviously didn’t. If she though it was farm equipment on the opposite side of the road she was not thinking emergency personnel, Utility workers, a school bus stopping to pick up kids that were crossing the road.... but again farm equipment. Had there been a universal color of light to identify School Bus, it may have clicked quicker that it was a school bus and she may have stopped.

I never said it was the bus drivers fault. But as a parent would you want your kid crossing a road in the dark in a 55mph zone or would you prefer them to be picked up on the same side of the road? Obviously same side of the road is almost always a safer choice no matter what stretch of road. So again one could argue that the school district could have done a better job on laying out the bus route. We will see if lawsuits are brought against the school and what approach the lawyer take.

I agree that it rests on her shoulders, a mistake she will ultimately bear for the rest of her life.

Doesn't matter. A reasonable person, seeing flashing lights of any sort that so much as MIGHT be on the road, would slow down and increase scrutiny until they have determined whether the road is clear.

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe if TV stations put all the car incidents on TV, like they do with gun incidents, people might remember that they are operating a dangerous piece of equipment.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Doesn't matter. A reasonable person, seeing flashing lights of any sort that so much as MIGHT be on the road, would slow down and increase scrutiny until they have determined whether the road is clear.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Color of the lights does not matter. That they are flashing is the only indicator that matters. Lights are flashing. STFD and see why. Period.

Far too many people are only concerned about themselves and what/where they are going these days. Just look around. I am late so move over attitudes are everywhere.

 

[alabasterjar]

Why does it matter?
Same reason we use differnt colors for road signs, traffic lights, red & blue lights on police vehicles, red & white on ambulances and Fire Trucks. To quickly identity vehicles and road hazards. The problem with amber lights is that they are on damn near everything on the road.

While she should have slowed down even for farm equipment she obviously didn’t. If she though it was farm equipment on the opposite side of the road she was not thinking emergency personnel, Utility workers, a school bus stopping to pick up kids that were crossing the road.... but again farm equipment. Had there been a universal color of light to identify School Bus, it may have clicked quicker that it was a school bus and she may have stopped.

I never said it was the bus drivers fault. But as a parent would you want your kid crossing a road in the dark in a 55mph zone or would you prefer them to be picked up on the same side of the road? Obviously same side of the road is almost always a safer choice no matter what stretch of road. So again one could argue that the school district could have done a better job on laying out the bus route. We will see if lawsuits are brought against the school and what approach the lawyer take.

I agree that it rests on her shoulders, a mistake she will ultimately bear for the rest of her life.

Didn't intend to suggest you were blaming the bus driver, but that's definitely the way I made it sound. It was discussed up thread about the location of the stop, I was too lazy to figure out how to use multiple quotes from my tablet.

My point was this: while finding a safer bus stop location might have been prudent, the problem wasn't the bus stop. The problem was the disconnect between the "I see flashing lights in the road ahead" and the correct response of "I should slow my @$$ down". The color of the lights don't matter, inattentive drivers are going to do what inattentive drivers do.

I'll say it again, look at the damage to the front of that pickup truck. That was not caused by a truck proceeding cautiously around a marked road hazard.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

When I was a kid, there was a series of PSA commercials on TV, where they reminded drivers to always "Look out for the other guy".
The "other guy" could be an inattentive driver in another car, or a pre-occupied farm worker walking out from behind a semi loading grain, or a group of school children getting on the bus. Even though I wasn't even driving yet when I saw those, the idea always stuck with me - Learn to expect the unexpected.

To me, it doesn't matter what type of vehicle is on the side of the road. The flashing lights are there to remind us to slow down and be prepared to look out for the "other guy".

 

[PGRChaplain]

I ride a Motorcycle and have since 1964, driver's have declined to Terrible. Most everyone on the road are consumed with everything but Driving! Too many Distractions!

 

[Sapper32]

Agreed. Protect yourself and dont expect others to do it for you

 

[HoughMade]

?
She didn't run.
Her vehicle was busted up.
What is there to prove?

​mens rea

 

[Trigger Time]

Maybe if TV stations put all the car incidents on TV, like they do with gun incidents, people might remember that they are operating a dangerous piece of equipment.

Great idea actually

 

[actaeon277]

​mens rea

To decide whether it's manslaughter or murder.