People think I'm nuts for worrying about nuclear war

[bobzilla]

How does MAD figure into this? It is automated as was said earlier…

We don't want to bring in reality to this fantasy.

 

[bobzilla]

In your first post:

"Worrying about a situation such as this is like worrying that a meteorite will land on your head. Can it happen? Yep. Is there a **** thing you can do about it? Nope."

What I asked if you had said:

"that it's worthless to plan for a nuclear attack because you can't do anything about it."


I might be dense, but I don't see the difference between these two...

The worrying is the part being addressed here. You cannot stop a nuclear attack, can you? So the statement that "there is nothing you can do about the attack" stands. It has nothing to do with preps. It has everything to do with an inability to do anything about the attack. So yeah, I will agree you are a bit dense. No argument from me there.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

The worrying is the part being addressed here. You cannot stop a nuclear attack, can you? So the statement that "there is nothing you can do about the attack" stands. It has nothing to do with preps. It has everything to do with an inability to do anything about the attack. So yeah, I will agree you are a bit dense. No argument from me there.

Well, I appreciate your patience with my lack of comprehension, but I think I finally understand what you meant, if the following is correct?

You were saying that it is pointless to worry about the nuclear attack itself, since we can't do anything to prevent it. You weren't saying that it's pointless to prepare for the aftermath of a nuclear attack with the hope of being better prepared and increasing one's odds of survival (which is how I originally took it.)

 

[bobzilla]

Well, I appreciate your patience with my lack of comprehension, but I think I finally understand what you meant, if the following is correct?

You were saying that it is pointless to worry about the nuclear attack itself, since we can't do anything to prevent it. You weren't saying that it's pointless to prepare for the aftermath of a nuclear attack with the hope of being better prepared and increasing one's odds of survival (which is how I originally took it.)

It's a bit of a moot point but sure. Prep all you want. We'll have 20-40 minutes to enjoy what we had. Once the missiles start flying its over. You can dream in fantasy all you want but if you're like us and within 15 miles of a blast point there's not much you can do outside of a full on Fallout Vault full of food, power supply, water purification etc.

If you're far enough out from those then you have a better chance, but its not going to be a limited exchange.

 

[wakproductions]

Please go back and read my comments. I never said anything about being ridiculous. No one is ridiculing you here.

Don't think you're the only person that preps. Most of the people in this conversation do and some to greater extent than you.

Once it begins, it becomes automated.

Worrying about a situation such as this is like worrying that a meteorite will land on your head. Can it happen? Yep. Is there a damn thing you can do about it? Nope.

You are sending me some really mixed signals here. You tell me that it's not worth making a plan of action for a nuclear situation, yet throw out a belittling insult to say that other people (presumably referring to yourself) are prepping harder than me. And then you claim this not to be ridiculing me. This is called gaslighting.

You also pretend to know exactly how a nuclear war will play out, that it will be "automated" Armageddon with no decisions to be made by leaders on how to stop it. So, I guess if Putin uses a low yield, 10kt nuclear weapon on Kyiv, we will all die automatically.

I feel like you are just taking an opposing argument for the sake of arguing. This is unproductive. I think I got the information that I sought from this post, and will not continue trying to debate you. Good luck.

 

[bobzilla]

You are sending me some really mixed signals here. You tell me that it's not worth making a plan of action for a nuclear situation, yet throw out a belittling insult to say that other people (presumably referring to yourself) are prepping harder than me. And then you claim this not to be ridiculing me. This is called gaslighting.

You also pretend to know exactly how a nuclear war will play out, that it will be "automated" Armageddon with no decisions to be made by leaders on how to stop it. So, I guess if Putin uses a low yield, 10kt nuclear weapon on Kyiv, we will all die automatically.

I feel like you are just taking an opposing argument for the sake of arguing. This is unproductive. I think I got the information that I sought from this post, and will not continue trying to debate you. Good luck.

Please read this response:

The worrying is the part being addressed here. You cannot stop a nuclear attack, can you? So the statement that "there is nothing you can do about the attack" stands. It has nothing to do with preps. It has everything to do with an inability to do anything about the attack.

Again, I have never once said to not prep. There ARE people here that prep way harder than you are. Several with completely self sufficient "compounds" with water, food, power etc. How you think that is belittling I have no idea other than you need thicker skin. You assumption that I am one of them is far far off the mark. Not once have I ridiculed you, but I will now. Grow some thicker skin and get over yourself. It's not always about you all the time.

****ing people ....

 

[Lpherr]

You are sending me some really mixed signals here. You tell me that it's not worth making a plan of action for a nuclear situation, yet throw out a belittling insult to say that other people (presumably referring to yourself) are prepping harder than me. And then you claim this not to be ridiculing me. This is called gaslighting.

You also pretend to know exactly how a nuclear war will play out, that it will be "automated" Armageddon with no decisions to be made by leaders on how to stop it. So, I guess if Putin uses a low yield, 10kt nuclear weapon on Kyiv, we will all die automatically.

I feel like you are just taking an opposing argument for the sake of arguing. This is unproductive. I think I got the information that I sought from this post, and will not continue trying to debate you. Good luck.

You started this thread with the statement you are worried we will have an exchange with Russia. Russia sending a single missile to Kyiv, has zero impact on the US.
If the US is in an exchange with Russia, it won't be a single strike. And it would take longer for an attempt to stop the exchange, than it will take to complete it's course. There wouldn't be any time for a diplomatic intervention. When the sirens blast, grab your rearend and give it a big kiss.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You started this thread with the statement you are worried we will have an exchange with Russia. Russia sending a single missile to Kyiv, has zero impact on the US.

Disagree. Strongly. The global economic impacts alone will severely impact the US. That's not as sexy a thing to prep for, but it's much more likely. (And both are extremely low probabilities, just more likely in comparison to an exchange with the US)

Nobody can prep for everything. Everyone has limited time and limited resources. You have to draw the line at something, but logically you should spend your resources on high probability/high risk/high reward situations first. If you want to prep for nuclear exchanges, meteor strikes, and alien invasions that's your business. Just ask if you've prepped for more likely life altering/ending events, say a massive bleed from a car crash, with the same assiduousness first.

 

[bobzilla]

Disagree. Strongly. The global economic impacts alone will severely impact the US. That's not as sexy a thing to prep for, but it's much more likely. (And both are extremely low probabilities, just more likely in comparison to an exchange with the US)

Nobody can prep for everything. Everyone has limited time and limited resources. You have to draw the line at something, but logically you should spend your resources on high probability/high risk/high reward situations first. If you want to prep for nuclear exchanges, meteor strikes, and alien invasions that's your business. Just ask if you've prepped for more likely life altering/ending events, say a massive bleed from a car crash, with the same assiduousness first.

Props for use of the word "assiduousness"

 

[J Galt]

Yes. Our country is currently being run by a group of morons who are continually escalating a conflict that is not a strategic interest of the United States. They have done absolutely nothing to diplomatically deescalate the situation, which Putin is fighting so vigorously for because in his eyes it's an existential crisis which matters to Russia's national security. In a matter of weeks, this could escalate to something nuclear.

I probably won't survive Armageddon and I'm not trying to. However, I could foresee a situation develop that involves an escalation that leads to a need to temporarily take shelter. Exactly what that would be I don't know. It could be that the DEFCON level is raised. It could be that a city or military installation somewhere else is bombed which sends a toxic cloud in my direction. I just want to know that I can find a basement that's secure and has a small amount of supplies to wait it out for 24-48 hours. Is that so unreasonable?

Unsolicited suggestion:

If you see the need to prep for a nuclear incident then make what preparations you think are prudent. Stop wasting time & energy in an online back and forth that results in nothing.

We are still in America where you have freedom of choice. Even if I don't necessarily agree with you, I can still support you.....or at least not discourage you. If someone who reads this sees the same issues that you do they can PM you.

 

[Lpherr]

Disagree. Strongly. The global economic impacts alone will severely impact the US. That's not as sexy a thing to prep for, but it's much more likely. (And both are extremely low probabilities, just more likely in comparison to an exchange with the US)

Nobody can prep for everything. Everyone has limited time and limited resources. You have to draw the line at something, but logically you should spend your resources on high probability/high risk/high reward situations first. If you want to prep for nuclear exchanges, meteor strikes, and alien invasions that's your business. Just ask if you've prepped for more likely life altering/ending events, say a massive bleed from a car crash, with the same assiduousness first.

My response was directly in reference to a nuclear strike on Kyiv. The strike itself, wouldn't have any direct impact on the US. Nothing that preparation would benefit from.
I agree, that economically, it could have an impact, as evidenced by the Ukraine war.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

US debt to China: Roughly $1 trillion
US trade definite with China: Roughly $300 billion
China's top export trade partner: US, taking roughly 17%-20% of their exports.
China's top import trade partner: South Korea, Japan, USA (so us and 2 traditional allies)

China has zero incentive to go to war with us, and even less to invite a nuclear exchange. That's the equivalent of forgiving all debt owed you, stabbing your best customer while he and a few close buddies point guns at you, and setting your available grocery stores on fire...all while wondering how you're going to pay your mortgage.

Prior to WWI, Germany's biggest trading partner was France. No one can predict with 100% accuracy what would happen once the first nuke goes off. Who thought that the murder of an obscure Archduke would result in millions of dead?

China's leadership may decide that the political advantages of a first strike outweigh the impact on their "house of cards" economy. We see that playing out with Russia's illogical choice to invade Ukraine.

 

[spencer rifle]

US debt to China: Roughly $1 trillion
US trade definite with China: Roughly $300 billion
China's top export trade partner: US, taking roughly 17%-20% of their exports.
China's top import trade partner: South Korea, Japan, USA (so us and 2 traditional allies)

China has zero incentive to go to war with us, and even less to invite a nuclear exchange. That's the equivalent of forgiving all debt owed you, stabbing your best customer while he and a few close buddies point guns at you, and setting your available grocery stores on fire...all while wondering how you're going to pay your mortgage.

If the decision is purely economic, then this analysis is sound. But politicians always have a way of inserting themselves into economic decisions in illogical ways.
The CCP has ALWAYS been willing to break a few (or many) eggs (even their own) to make the expected omelet.

Just look at COVID, both it's release and the current actions of the CCP.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Prior to WWI, Germany's biggest trading partner was France. No one can predict with 100% accuracy what would happen once the first nuke goes off. Who thought that the murder of an obscure Archduke would result in millions of dead?

China's leadership may decide that the political advantages of a first strike outweigh the impact on their "house of cards" economy. We see that playing out with Russia's illogical choice to invade Ukraine.

Nobody is claiming 100% accuracy.

I don't see parallels to WW1 nor any similar incentives on the table, even discounting the modern concerns of MAD, etc and the fact cultural and economic war are much more palatable...and winnable.

We're losing the culture war. We are turned on each other more than any time in the past 50 years or so. We attack our own institutions of society, law enforcement has been under siege for years and now the military is as well. Internal dissent and strife reduces our ability to project power outward. Imagine a 9/11 event that reunites us against an outside enemy again, however temporarily, and makes 1st responders and soldiers heroes in the popular mindset again. WITAF would an enemy want to interrupt us destroying ourselves from within? They can shitpost social media and do more damage than laying waste to us and ruining our economic engine before they have surpassed us.

 

[Mij]

I take BBI’s post with keen interest, and will say the culture wars now occurring have both internal as well as external operators. And I do agree with the assessment Overall.

 

[JettaKnight]

My thought is any nukes are falling far, far from me.

But it's going to seriously hurt the economy and I'll be glad I didn't waste my money on Geiger counters, iodine pill, and other gizmos.

I plan for disasters with a higher likelihood. And generally that means a decent supply of food and water, and a good bank account.

YMMV.


PS I think a lot of this prepping is just a hobby for some; they do it for the fact that they want to. Then they have to backfill a reason to explain it to their spouse.

there's a lot of similarity to horders - "I might need this someday!"

 

[cosermann]

May be helpful . . .

Free online book - Nuclear War Survival Skills

Free online book Nuclear War Survival Skills Updated and Expanded 1987 Edition &, Hebrew KF Nuclear War Survival Skills Updated and Expanded 1987 Edition Cresson H. Kearny With Foreword by Dr. Edward Teller

www.oism.org

http://oism.org/nwss/nwss.pdf

Suggest reading the myths and facts in the above publication.

 

[bobzilla]

My thought is any nukes are falling far, far from me.

But it's going to seriously hurt the economy and I'll be glad I didn't waste my money on Geiger counters, iodine pill, and other gizmos.

I plan for disasters with a higher likelihood. And generally that means a decent supply of food and water, and a good bank account.

YMMV.


PS I think a lot of this prepping is just a hobby for some; they do it for the fact that they want to. Then they have to backfill a reason to explain it to their spouse.

there's a lot of similarity to horders - "I might need this someday!"

One of the few times we agree.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

The invasion of Ukraine has shown the total lack of training, maintenance and standardization across the Russian military. The world now sees the reality that their forces are drowning in graft, lies and corruption. If the regular forces are this bad, what is the true state on their nuclear forces? Below is a dicussion link that dives into that question.

/k/ - Weapons » Thread #52455829

Archived.moe is a dedicated archive of all boards from the largest discussion imageboard website called 4chan - the anonymous Reddit

archived.moe

Even if the Russian nuclear threat is a paper tiger, there is still a possibility that a small amount of weapons would be able to strike the U.S.

 

[Mij]

Yep, Putins running a bluff. But, big But, he does have the resources to mobilize, retool, and go full tilt boggie given enough time. That’s what he is attempting to do now, stall for time. Bad decisions on his part, lack of good commanders in the field, and to long a time with peaceful, easy living. Have been his bane.

My thoughts are his third army (winter) is on the way. And his adversary is as adept at cold weather fighting as he is. Drawing this thing out longer could spell trouble for the rest of the world. JMO.