Politeness and Manners? Lost on Young People?

[actaeon277]

maybe, before dr. spock

 

[churchmouse]

Dr. Spock.

Yup.

 

[Disgruntled0321]

You wouldn't believe how many people, even relatively respectful people, have forgotten or were never taught such values. I was blessed to having been raised in small southern town where stuff like that was not just optional politeness, but required.

It was definitely required of us also. I know where you're coming from!

 

[Disgruntled0321]

Yes sir! You didnt want to test dads resolve that's for sure! I remember trying to hide from dad in the woods behind the house to avoid punishment one day. It didnt work and I got it even worse for making him find me and then chase me down! After that I knew I had messed up for a long while. I never tried to forge his or moms name on another note sent home by the teacher requesting a parent - teacher meeting for me being a smart ass or on a detention slip EVER again! That was in the 1st or 2nd grade if I remember correctly. After dad got done with me then mom got me too just out of principle. Man those old plastic flimsy Hot Wheels tracks sure did hurt like hell and were just the right consistency to keep whooping your butt for a long while! One of moms arms would get tired and shed just change to the other one. Those things never wore out! Made a kid wish for a switch instead.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

I don't know that it's the "youth".
Seen plenty of rude adults of all ages.

Oh, it is much more than youth. It is about social values, mutual respect and common courtesy or a complete lack thereof.

It is about instructing youth by example of moral character. Unfortunately, people that display moral conviction are boring. It is far more entertaining watching people do bad, stupid, moronic, impractical, unbelievable things isn't it?

Indulgence in the "self" has been strongly emphasized in our society for the last several decades or generations. How are parents supposed to teach their children things that they don't understand themselves?

Blame the Boomers? No. Always blame the parents? No. How far back should you go to place blame? Should we blame the "Greatest Generation" for wanting to splurge after surviving the horrible experience of WWII and then living under the threat of atomic annihilation? How many parents', parents' parents' should we trace back?

Excuses are cheap and it is easy to place blame on others to make ourselves feel better, but it is the failings of each one of us, each individual, ourselves... that is where we have fallen short. It is in the realm of personal responsibility that each one of us is required to display morality, dignity, righteousness, pursue truth and demand more of ourselves than those around us.

Unfortunately, our society doesn't recognize or emphasize those things as being fun because those things are difficult and everyone struggles with them. To steal something from the parlance of our times, Adulting is Hard.

I believe the founders of our great nation recognized that a free society should be constructed upon the mores and values of the majority. Furthermore, if we do not accept the responsibilities and requirements of a free society, then we will have mores and values forced upon the masses by a tyrant.

It isn't the Millennials that are dooming us, it is the ME-llennials.

 

[churchmouse]

Oh, it is much more than youth. It is about social values, mutual respect and common courtesy or a complete lack thereof.

It is about instructing youth by example of moral character. Unfortunately, people that display moral conviction are boring. It is far more entertaining watching people do bad, stupid, moronic, impractical, unbelievable things isn't it?

Indulgence in the "self" has been strongly emphasized in our society for the last several decades or generations. How are parents supposed to teach their children things that they don't understand themselves?

Blame the Boomers? No. Always blame the parents? No. How far back should you go to place blame? Should we blame the "Greatest Generation" for wanting to splurge after surviving the horrible experience of WWII and then living under the threat of atomic annihilation? How many parents', parents' parents' should we trace back?

Excuses are cheap and it is easy to place blame on others to make ourselves feel better, but it is the failings of each one of us, each individual, ourselves... that is where we have fallen short. It is in the realm of personal responsibility that each one of us is required to display morality, dignity, righteousness, pursue truth and demand more of ourselves than those around us.

Unfortunately, our society doesn't recognize or emphasize those things as being fun because those things are difficult and everyone struggles with them. To steal something from the parlance of our times, Adulting is Hard.

I believe the founders of our great nation recognized that a free society should be constructed upon the mores and values of the majority. Furthermore, if we do not accept the responsibilities and requirements of a free society, then we will have mores and values forced upon the masses by a tyrant.

It isn't the Millennials that are dooming us, it is the ME-llennials.

Pretty much on point as always sir.

 

[two70]

I haven't seen a lot of deliberate rudeness like the OP described but I have encountered a lot of oblivious, inconsiderate people of all ages. Is it really that hard to park your car properly so that it doesn't take up two spaces? Or in Bloomington especially, pull over and let someone out instead of blocking traffic to do so? Do people really need to stand and talk immediately inside or outside of a doorway blocking entrance/exit? Do people really need to abandon their shopping cart in the middle of the aisle while shopping or stop and gawk in the middle of the aisle for extended periods of time?

 

[wtburnette]

I haven't seen a lot of deliberate rudeness like the OP described but I have encountered a lot of oblivious, inconsiderate people of all ages. Is it really that hard to park your car properly so that it doesn't take up two spaces? Or in Bloomington especially, pull over and let someone out instead of blocking traffic to do so? Do people really need to stand and talk immediately inside or outside of a doorway blocking entrance/exit? Do people really need to abandon their shopping cart in the middle of the aisle while shopping or stop and gawk in the middle of the aisle for extended periods of time?

It seems most people don't have a clue what it is to be considerate.

 

[churchmouse]

It seems most people don't have a clue what it is to be considerate.

"OR" what is actually going on outside the box they exist in.

 

[wtburnette]

"OR" what is actually going on outside the box they exist in.

Exactly. You have to be worried about the people around you instead of being completely self absorbed.

 

[JollyMon]

 

[nonobaddog]

Big cities do not engender politeness. It becomes difficult to care about the well-being of your fellow man when there are so damn many of them, most of which you might never see again.

 

[churchmouse]

Big cities do not engender politeness. It becomes difficult to care about the well-being of your fellow man when there are so damn many of them, most of which you might never see again.

And most likely be better off not crossing paths again. Unfortunately. Lots of angry disgruntled folks in the city.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Not all young people. Depends how they’re raised. Also you said your wife is in pretty good shape and 50, he probably didn’t realize she needed to sit... you could politely explain the situation and maybe he would have happily given his spot to her. Another thing to consider is maybe he was recently injured? Never know others situations so I try not to base an opinion off one instance alone. And to be fair, I’ve seen a lot of older people that are pretty rude and use the age as an excuse to do so. I’ll gladly give my seat to an elderly couple if we are sitting in a waiting room, but don’t cut me in line at a gas station because you’re in a hurry and think you’re entitled to because you’re older than I am. I’ve had this happen on more than one occasion.

I agree here. Also where was your politeness and manners, a person upsets you, so naturally the only reasonable response is to assault or swear at them?

To belabor the point made above. Just bc you're old that doesn't mean the world should bow to your every whim and want.

That all being said, I hope your wife gets the hitch in her giddy up worked out.

 

[jamil]

Most of the mannerisms that we call "respectful" behavior are social constructs. There is not a functional reason why it's disrespectful to wear a hat in a restaurant, for example. It's just evolved to become the norm. Taking one's hat off indoors went out of style many decades ago. So now it's only tacky to wear a cap in certain places. And that may die off or be replace by some other social norm. It's okay that social constructs evolve over time. That isn't the indicator that people are disrespectful.

A depiction of a mob boss dressing down a young man for wearing his cap in a restaurant because it's "disrespectful" isn't the best way of illustrating the point. Though socially tacky, wearing a baseball cap in a nice restaurant is orders of magnitude less disrespectful than killing people over money and power. If we're talking about the erosion of values, I'm gonna assume that using The Sopranos to make the point was intentionally ironic.

 

[churchmouse]

I agree here. Also where was your politeness and manners, a person upsets you, so naturally the only reasonable response is to assault or swear at them?

To belabor the point made above. Just bc you're old that doesn't mean the world should bow to your every whim and want.

That all being said, I hope your wife gets the hitch in her giddy up worked out.

In truth no one expects the world to bow to us old geezers just respect the time we have spent here building the world you now enjoy.
I was raised to do this. Manners and respect.

True some old farts are just mean and cantankerous. As I get older I see why but do not actually agree with that attitude.

I will open the door for your mother as she comes up to the restaurant or store. I will let her cross the street in front of me. I will help load her grocery's if that is acceptable to her. I will give up my seat. Just raised that way. I believe that is the point being made here. This new crop seems to be missing a few most needed ingredients left out in the raising.

Trust that I do know many very polite and well mannered younger people. My comments are the in general sort.

 

[Trigger Time]

People would be nicer to you old fogies if you stopped wearing those MAGA hats

I love wearing mine. I dare some asshat to touch it too

 

[jamil]

I agree here. Also where was your politeness and manners, a person upsets you, so naturally the only reasonable response is to assault or swear at them?

To belabor the point made above. Just bc you're old that doesn't mean the world should bow to your every whim and want.

That all being said, I hope your wife gets the hitch in her giddy up worked out.

Being courteous is different from "acting respectful" or whatever else the complaint is. Opening the door for someone who has their hands full, for example, is a near timeless, thoughtful gesture, regardless of whatever the social norms are. I think if we're going to try to decide whether society is behaving meaner, we need to separate what is socially derived behavior and what is actually "mean". Kindness, deference to those less fortunate, and such, are all timeless behaviors of a more civilized society.

Manners are social rules for what to do or how to behave in certain circumstances, and are not timeless. There is no functional reason to fold your table napkin a certain way on your lap, or at what time before people eat. There's no functional reason to set the table such that silverware in order of use, outside in, that forks must be to the left of the plate, and knives and spoons to the right. These are just rules made up by people that have no real purpose other than order.

It's fine to have order, but the rules for the particular order you want, the "manners" is arbitrary. It's not scandalous if the norms evolve so that the forks go on the right and the spoons/knives go on the left. Or maybe we just do away with silverware altogether and beam the food into our mouths to taste. Maybe like a paste so that chewing becomes a first world problem.

It's okay to wear your baseball cap indoors now. That's a good evolution of manners.

 

[jamil]

In truth no one expects the world to bow to us old geezers just respect the time we have spent here building the world you now enjoy.
I was raised to do this. Manners and respect.

True some old farts are just mean and cantankerous. As I get older I see why but do not actually agree with that attitude.

I will open the door for your mother as she comes up to the restaurant or store. I will let her cross the street in front of me. I will help load her grocery's if that is acceptable to her. I will give up my seat. Just raised that way. I believe that is the point being made here. This new crop seems to be missing a few most needed ingredients left out in the raising.

Trust that I do know many very polite and well mannered younger people. My comments are the in general sort.

Respect I agree with. It's not disrespectful not to have the same manners we grew up with though. Being considerate of others should be one of those timeless norms.

 

[jamil]

People would be nicer to you old fogies if you stopped wearing those MAGA hats

Yeah. It's purple. But I kinda suspect it's halfway serious.

So. It's not just the old fogies. I see plenty of young people wearing them too.

Tell you what. Stop wearing che guevara tee shirts and then we can talk about the MAGA hats.