Precision Gun Range neighbors think they are in the line of fire

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  • aspiringsnd

    Plinker
    Rating - 87.5%
    7   1   0
    Jan 24, 2016
    106
    18
    Westfield
    Yes, we can. Have you been to the HC or Israel? Ranges are common. However, they put effort into them.

    The gun community can solve it with more study and effort.

    1. Direct more NRA resources to range development and range education.

    2. Direct more P-R money to range development and education.

    3. Direct the gun culture to becoming more safety conscious rather than "good enough" or "that's how we usta do it". Crushing the Herpa Derp is a priority. Once we eliminate this self-imposed, self-defeating roadblock, we can focus on gun safety.

    I think this sums up the solution quite well.

    In my opinion, a large group of 'gun enthusiasts' and new shooters alike don't place enough emphasis on safety. They may have heard the safety rules a thousand times (or so they think), but that doesn't mean they truly take them to heart.

    Every time I walk in to an indoor range I about crap my pants -- loads of people walking around with their new shooting bags, ear muffs, and pistols with magazines in them - chambers closed - walking around with their itchy booger hook resting on the flipping trigger. The 'safe' newbies, may keep their finger off the trigger, but they'll still (start to) turn around in a stall with a chambered round.

    The 'gun culture' as we like to call it, has spent so much time fighting to stay alive, we've minimized the fight to keep people alive. Maybe that's a bit extreme, but there's a lot of truth in it. We have to do more to educate new shooters and "seasoned" shooters that have grown up with absolutely terrible habits.

    Until we step up and realize the importance of education -- not just safety, but also form and function of our munitions and weapons -- we'll continue to see situations like this one (at Precision Gun Range).

    Safety is everyone's responsibility -- from the gun manufacturer, to the range designer/owner, to the shooter. Manufacturers, operators, and owners need to start working together to not just keep the 2nd amendment alive, but educate existing owners and the general public. There may be some things that hardcore 2A advocates have to give up, like -- GASP -- maybe people should have to complete mandatory safety training prior to being able to purchase a firearm. I don't know what the solution is to the current problem; but that's what we've got, a problem.

    If you don't believe we have a problem, look at the fact this thread is 14 pages long and has 140+ posts -- and (I'm pretty sure) more than half are debating who the blame falls on.
     
    Last edited:

    thunderchicken

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Feb 26, 2010
    6,446
    113
    Indianapolis
    Let me say this. I have said since early on I beleive there is a shared responsibility with this issue. And I agree education is a key to minimizing some of the unsafe practices we all see/ most have committed (myself included). Maybe ranges open to the public need to do more than simply telling customers to read their rules. Maybe they need to take 5 minutes to make sure everyone understands the expectations. Maybe some of the larger/busier ranges need more than one RO working the shooting line to help correct/educate people.
    I had a bad experience once at Atterbury with a RO. I had a Remington nylon66 that wouldn't lock open and no chamber flag. So when cease fire was called I proped the bolt open with a small wood dowel rod. RO chewed my tail as soon as he approached the shooting bench. Pissed me off I blew off his stand behind the line rule, put my gun in cases and walked out. In my opinion the wood dowel was as good as any plastic flag, and I feel I shouldn't have been treated that way. That was prolly 5 yrs ago and haven't gone back.
    If I had been informed of what was/ wasn't acceptable it wouldn't have been a problem.
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Mar 9, 2008
    48,055
    113
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Let me say this. I have said since early on I beleive there is a shared responsibility with this issue. And I agree education is a key to minimizing some of the unsafe practices we all see/ most have committed (myself included). Maybe ranges open to the public need to do more than simply telling customers to read their rules. Maybe they need to take 5 minutes to make sure everyone understands the expectations. Maybe some of the larger/busier ranges need more than one RO working the shooting line to help correct/educate people.
    I had a bad experience once at Atterbury with a RO. I had a Remington nylon66 that wouldn't lock open and no chamber flag. So when cease fire was called I proped the bolt open with a small wood dowel rod. RO chewed my tail as soon as he approached the shooting bench. Pissed me off I blew off his stand behind the line rule, put my gun in cases and walked out. In my opinion the wood dowel was as good as any plastic flag, and I feel I shouldn't have been treated that way. That was prolly 5 yrs ago and haven't gone back.
    If I had been informed of what was/ wasn't acceptable it wouldn't have been a problem.

    This is part of the problem, people confuse range rules with being safe.

    "Standing on one foot during cease fires" has nothing to do with safety.
     

    thunderchicken

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Feb 26, 2010
    6,446
    113
    Indianapolis
    Well kirk, I'll tell you I have in my life had plenty of occasions when I have gotten a bit complacent and and caught myself doing something that's less than ideal. Such as during training moving from concealment to a different position, and caught myself doing so with my finger on the trigger. Not proud of it but I acknowledge it happens and I don't know anyone that hasn't been guilty of something similar at some point. Regardless how much training you have. I don't confuse range rules with being safe. I gave the example above in agreement that people need to be better educated how to be safe. Part of that is simply following the rules and knowing what is expected. And, as in my example a pompus ass of a RO does nothing to promote safety. You need to keep in mind the vast majority of gun owners/shooters rarely actually get out and shoot more than once or twice a year, and most have never received any formal training. That is a problem, that many public ranges with a range Safety officer worth his salt can help fix. But again keep in mind for many, shooting is just a casual hobby. And safety, proper techniques are parishable skills. I am lucky enough to have received a fair amount of firearms training, and I take pride in helping other be safer gun owners. I acknowledged from the beginning of this discussion that every individual is ultimately responsible for safety and each of us have to own our actions.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    Well kirk, I'll tell you I have in my life had plenty of occasions when I have gotten a bit complacent and and caught myself doing something that's less than ideal. Such as during training moving from concealment to a different position, and caught myself doing so with my finger on the trigger. Not proud of it but I acknowledge it happens and I don't know anyone that hasn't been guilty of something similar at some point. Regardless how much training you have. I don't confuse range rules with being safe. I gave the example above in agreement that people need to be better educated how to be safe. Part of that is simply following the rules and knowing what is expected. And, as in my example a pompus ass of a RO does nothing to promote safety. You need to keep in mind the vast majority of gun owners/shooters rarely actually get out and shoot more than once or twice a year, and most have never received any formal training. That is a problem, that many public ranges with a range Safety officer worth his salt can help fix. But again keep in mind for many, shooting is just a casual hobby. And safety, proper techniques are parishable skills. I am lucky enough to have received a fair amount of firearms training, and I take pride in helping other be safer gun owners. I acknowledged from the beginning of this discussion that every individual is ultimately responsible for safety and each of us have to own our actions.

    The last sentence pretty much covers this in my mind.
    The range needs to step up but those on the line hold the real responsibility here.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    94   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,182
    113
    Btown Rural
    Why only one or the other?

    Is not the range liable for knowing whether or not bullets are leaving their property?
    Is it responsible in today's day and age to not know?
    Do we not ALL know that there is a fair percentage of naive/unsafe/sloppy/irresponsible/dangerous shooters among us?
     

    EyeCarry

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    May 10, 2014
    1,535
    63
    Bloomington
    I stopped at PGR today for some handgun practice. Some pretty major changes are coming to the range. Stated timeline was 45 days. Rifle range will be back on line it seems. THEY ARE OPEN but only the pistol bay right now. I won't say more as I don't want to get it wrong.
     

    2in1evtime

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 98.4%
    63   1   0
    Oct 30, 2011
    3,452
    113
    retired-midwest
    Again....how are they getting over the berm. There has to be a problem with the shooters at the line. What are these people shooting at.



    It is called incompetence of the shooter!! I can list a couple examples that just happened at my local shooting range!

    1st example-- Had 2 guys pull in and get out at the 100 yard range, got there ak's out and proceeded to do mag dumps, I was busy on the trap range and saw there rounds hitting the top of the mound and probably going over{this is a 20+ foot high berm too} Went over and politely told them too stop firing and pack it up as there is to be no fast fire at that distance.

    2nd example Whileshooting 100 yard bench had a older gentleman pull in a asked too shoot with us, said sure so he gets his rifle out and proceeds to fire, branches are falling on the top of the mound, asked him to stop firing, asked if he had sighted his scope in, his response was It was ok on my other rifle!!!!!!!

    3rdexample 2 young guys showed up to shoot there new ar 15's, knew nothing about the rifles, red dots on both , not sighted in, bullets going everywhere, they don't shoot in our club anymore!!

    So i see it being just plain stupidity on the shooters part, which in turn ruins it for the shooters that take time to know there firearms, tune them in,ect..
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area

    It is called incompetence of the shooter!! I can list a couple examples that just happened at my local shooting range!

    1st example-- Had 2 guys pull in and get out at the 100 yard range, got there ak's out and proceeded to do mag dumps, I was busy on the trap range and saw there rounds hitting the top of the mound and probably going over{this is a 20+ foot high berm too} Went over and politely told them too stop firing and pack it up as there is to be no fast fire at that distance.

    2nd example Whileshooting 100 yard bench had a older gentleman pull in a asked too shoot with us, said sure so he gets his rifle out and proceeds to fire, branches are falling on the top of the mound, asked him to stop firing, asked if he had sighted his scope in, his response was It was ok on my other rifle!!!!!!!

    3rdexample 2 young guys showed up to shoot there new ar 15's, knew nothing about the rifles, red dots on both , not sighted in, bullets going everywhere, they don't shoot in our club anymore!!

    So i see it being just plain stupidity on the shooters part, which in turn ruins it for the shooters that take time to know there firearms, tune them in,ect..

    And this was what I was referring to......idiots, incompetents and fools with rifles.
    Just because you can own one does not mean that you should.
     
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