Primer Pockets

[red_zr24x4]

I have been reloading for as long as you. I sure don't know it all, but my practices haven't resulted in any major problems. If you want to spend your time cleaning primer pockets and it makes you feel good, have at it, but it isn't a necessary step. I'm still not convinced of your assertion that not cleaning primer pockets is an unsafe practice, and I'm a stickler for safety.

Right there with you Mike, I've been loading for 19yrs. No major issues.
If a pocket has a ton of crap in it, yeah I'll clean it, But to do every one ...Na

 

[billt]

I'm still not convinced of your assertion that not cleaning primer pockets is an unsafe practice, and I'm a stickler for safety.

Not cleaning primer pockets in itself is not an unsafe practice. Cleaning them however does allow for correct seating depth to be achieved without loss of uniformity. Variation is what causes problems in most all reloading. Having consistently clean primer pockets allows for a much more consistent seating of primers...period.

 

[Broom_jm]

Not cleaning primer pockets in itself is not an unsafe practice. Cleaning them however does allow for correct seating depth to be achieved without loss of uniformity. Variation is what causes problems in most all reloading. Having consistently clean primer pockets allows for a much more consistent seating of primers...period.

One of the ways a metallic cartridge case may wear out is for the primer pocket to become too loose to securely hold a primer in place. Given that primer pockets DO gradually expand, can you scientifically prove that the amount of primer residue buildup is not just offsetting the amount of primer pocket expansion?

I'm friends with a guy who has written many articles that have been published in gun and reloading manuals over the last two decades. He explains, in no uncertain terms, that "cleaning" a primer pocket is unnecessary, although uniforming may absolutely be indicated.

Bottom line here is that lots of guys approach this both ways, with unqualified success in both camps, so neither process can be said to be superior. It is simply a matter of preference and NOT a safety issue, regardless of what you might believe, personally.

 

[billt]

One of the ways a metallic cartridge case may wear out is for the primer pocket to become too loose to securely hold a primer in place. Given that primer pockets DO gradually expand, can you scientifically prove that the amount of primer residue buildup is not just offsetting the amount of primer pocket expansion?

Now you're just being ridiculous. Even if it did, (which it doesn't), do you think offsetting brass cartridge case material with crap, in an attempt to hold the primer in place, is an even trade? And for the umpteenth time, a dirty primer pocket in itself is not an unsafe condition. It can CAUSE unsafe conditions by not allowing consistent primer seating. Primers not seated flush or below the case are in fact UNSAFE when fired in many semi auto weapons.

But hey, if you're in love with dirt, go for it!

 

[billt]

I'm friends with a guy who has written many articles that have been published in gun and reloading manuals over the last two decades. He explains, in no uncertain terms, that "cleaning" a primer pocket is unnecessary, although uniforming may absolutely be indicated.

I guess your dirt builds up at a more uniform rate than everyone else's.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I guess your dirt builds up at a more uniform rate than everyone else's.

I shoot almost every day. I generally take a few pieces of brass, however many I want to shoot of that caliber at one time or over a few days, load and shoot. I do this with .223, .308, 300blk, .45, 10mm, .44 mag. Then one or two of those calibers are shot daily, sometimes several load/shoot cycles (I only do this with 3-4 of some, 10-20 of others). So I get to know each piece of brass pretty well over its life. I have been doing this for the last 8 years of the 25+ I have been reloading, ever since I built my reloading/shooting building.

If a piece of brass fails, MOST of the time it is because the base flattens and expands too much to fit in the shellholder, sometimes because the neck area cracks, and sometimes if it is one of the rifle calibers being shot semiauto, incipient case separation. Then a new piece is cycled in to replace the failed piece. These daily loads are all mid-range.

These pieces aren't tumbled, and are generally only wiped down as I pick them up to load them to get rid of any grit they may have picked up.

They are all felt with the tip of my finger when I take them off and put them into the box to ensure the primer is seated just below flush.

On a VERY rare occasion I get a primer that won't seat below flush with the normal force, so it is noted, a little extra force is used to seat it, and fired on it's own right then, the primer pocket cleaned and done again to be put into the daily regimen again.

This happens maybe once every few months. This is out of a thousand or two centerfire rounds shot in that time period. If you want to clean all the primer pockets, more power to you. But it is not necessary and certainly not a replacement for proper checking to ensure the primer is properly seated.

 

[billt]

If you want to clean all the primer pockets, more power to you. But it is not necessary and certainly not a replacement for proper checking to ensure the primer is properly seated.

This is something I should probably mention. I don't clean my primer pockets, my tumbler does. This is one of the many benefits of tumbling with Stainless Steel media. Every feature on the case, outside, inside, as well as primer pockets comes out spotless. In this regard, why not embrace the process? It's easy, takes no more labor, and the real advantage is every case I load is like a brand new piece of brass. It's a no brainer. Cleaning cases this way also allows me to check for any imperfections or cracks that otherwise would be missed if I just loaded the brass filthy.

Here is some .223 / 5.56 MM range pickup brass I picked up off the ground at my local club. This stuff was almost black, and a lot of it was caked with dried mud. This is what came out of the tumbler. It even cleaned the burr on the inside of the flash hole. I take pride in making the best ammunition possible. That includes having spotless ammunition. With this process it's easy to achieve a degree of cleanliness every time, that is only obtainable with factory new brass. A can't think of a single reason not to do it. No one is going to tell me having your brass in this condition is not going to benefit the reloading process with fewer issues.

 

[WyldeShot]

This is something I should probably mention. I don't clean my primer pockets, my tumbler does. This is one of the many benefits of tumbling with Stainless Steel media. Every feature on the case, outside, inside, as well as primer pockets comes out spotless. In this regard, why not embrace the process? It's easy, takes no more labor, and the real advantage is every case I load is like a brand new piece of brass. It's a no brainer. Cleaning cases this way also allows me to check for any imperfections or cracks that otherwise would be missed if I just loaded the brass filthy.

Here is some .223 / 5.56 MM range pickup brass I picked up off the ground at my local club. This stuff was almost black, and a lot of it was caked with dried mud. This is what came out of the tumbler. It even cleaned the burr on the inside of the flash hole. I take pride in making the best ammunition possible. That includes having spotless ammunition. With this process it's easy to achieve a degree of cleanliness every time, that is only obtainable with factory new brass. A can't think of a single reason not to do it. No one is going to tell me having your brass in this condition is not going to benefit the reloading process with fewer issues.

Very nice looking brass. I need to look into switching to steel media. I don't know much about tumbling with steel.

 

[billt]

Very nice looking brass. I need to look into switching to steel media. I don't know much about tumbling with steel.

It's very easy to get started. The only thing is that Stainless Steel media must be used in a wet tumbler. It cannot be used in the more common vibratory type machines. There are videos of the process on You Tube. Another advantage is once your set up and running, the Stainless Steel media does not wear out, and does not have to be replaced. There are many tumblers available in most any size you want. To me this process is a lot like buying your very first microwave oven or TV with remote control. Once you have it, you wonder how you went so long without it.

[video=youtube;i-6SOiWE8Hc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-6SOiWE8Hc[/video]

[video=youtube;wUItmkwdeL0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUItmkwdeL0[/video]

 

[WyldeShot]

It's very easy to get started. The only thing is that Stainless Steel media must be used in a wet tumbler. It cannot be used in the more common vibratory type machines. There are videos of the process on You Tube. Another advantage is once your set up and running, the Stainless Steel media does not wear out, and does not have to be replaced. There are many tumblers available in most any size you want. To me this process is a lot like buying your very first microwave oven or TV with remote control. Once you have it, you wonder how you went so long without it.

[video=youtube;i-6SOiWE8Hc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-6SOiWE8Hc[/video]

[video=youtube;wUItmkwdeL0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUItmkwdeL0[/video]

Thanks!!!

 

[BE Mike]

Not cleaning primer pockets in itself is not an unsafe practice. Cleaning them however does allow for correct seating depth to be achieved without loss of uniformity. Variation is what causes problems in most all reloading. Having consistently clean primer pockets allows for a much more consistent seating of primers...period.

What happened to your claim that dirty primer pockets caused an M1-A to slam fire? BTW, it isn't necessary to tumble most brass to a high luster. It does look pretty, though and if that's what you are going for, then great.

 

[billt]

What happened to your claim that dirty primer pockets caused an M1-A to slam fire? BTW, it isn't necessary to tumble most brass to a high luster.

His primers were seated all over the place. He said the cases were on their 4th or 5th reload, and he'd never cleaned anything. That certainly didn't help getting his primers where they belong did it? It "isn't necessary" to wash your car or clothes either. That should all fit right in with your whole, "dirt is my friend, so why bother", philosophy. I've never seen anyone argue so vehemently in defense of filth.

 

[BE Mike]

His primers were seated all over the place. He said the cases were on their 4th or 5th reload, and he'd never cleaned anything. That certainly didn't help getting his primers where they belong did it? It "isn't necessary" to wash your car or clothes either. That should all fit right in with your whole, "dirt is my friend, so why bother", philosophy. I've never seen anyone argue so vehemently in defense of filth.

Actually, it fits in with my philosophy that time stands still for no one, so why bother.

 

[WyldeShot]

It sounds like the majority of people do not clean the primer pockets but technically primer pockets should be cleaned. If you are not going to manually clean the primer pockets them tumbling with steel media after de-capping is the preferred method, followed by tumbling with dry media after de-capping.

I think I'm going to try tumbling with dry media and then probably investing in a steel media and a rotary tumbler.

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice!

 

[Broom_jm]

Gredden,

For the record, it takes a lot more time and cost (short-term) to clean with a tumbler and steel media. Just like cleaning primer pockets, that level of attention is simply not necessary.

Some folks are just fascinated with pretty things, I guess. To suggest that anything less than gleaming is "filthy" is absurd. My kitchen is clean, but it's not as sterile as an operating room. I have always believed in form following function, but we live in a society that has become obsessed with aesthetics. From a practical standpoint, the inside portions of metallic cartridges simply do not need to be polished 'til they shine, and the outsides only need to be free of grit and oil.

My brass is clean before it goes back into my guns. If others want brass that they can put lip gloss on with, that's their right but don't confuse it with necessity.

 

[red_zr24x4]

What Broom said ^
Up until the '80's or so no one ever tumbled their brass, they just wiped them off to remove the dirt and loaded them.

 

[billt]

Up until the '80's or so no one ever tumbled their brass, they just wiped them off to remove the dirt and loaded them.

I don't know where you were living in the 80's, but people have been cleaning brass decades before that. Don't make up foolish $h!t to support a stupid point.

 

[red_zr24x4]

You're right billt. I misspoke, that wss suppose to be the '70's
But anyway your right were all idiots because we dont do it like you do. I've noticed that in almost every thread you post in

 

[billt]

You're right billt. I misspoke, that wss suppose to be the '70's

I don't care what you do, or like for that matter. Just don't post bull$h!t. People have been cleaning brass since reloading existed. If you don't, or don't want to accept it, I could care less.

 

[Broom_jm]

I had the good fortune to learn reloading and shooting techniques from an older gentleman who once placed 3rd at a 1,000 yard Wimbledon Cup match. His handmade targets were sheets of cardboard with postage stamps attached, and rarely did one of his groups exceed those dimensions. The first day I met him, he was shooting a 6mm PPC and those bug-hole groups changed my perspective. By the end of that day, he had helped me adjust my shooting form enough to wring a .580" out of my sporter-weight 270 Win...and that was still twice as big as his groups.

He brought his reloading tools with him to the range. Since he was only decapping, neck-sizing, priming, charging and seating, he didn't need a massive press. Like Shimbumseeker mentioned earlier in the thread, this grizzled veteran would show up with a relative handful of cases and shoot them over and over, that day. His "cleaning" equipment consisted of a cotton rag. No rotary tumbler with steel pins to polish his brass until it shined, just a rag to wipe off the Imperial sizing die wax. He said a firm crimp was absolutely essential for accurate loading, but that he hadn't cleaned a primer pocket in forever. He suggested that if a steel brush or tool could be used to clean away the miniscule amount of residue from the walls of the primer pocket, that he figured any new primer he seated would pretty much do the same thing.

It seems to me that reloaders concerned primarily with accuracy have little concern for brass that gleams, while most of those obsessed with the appearance of their brass shoot a high volume of ammo from semi-auto guns and are (rightfully) concerned about their progressive press not seating a primer correctly, creating the potential for a slam fire.

<comment removed for the sake of diplomacy> Sometimes, you're just wrong, or at the very least, in the minority. You clean til they shine...I've got groups to shoot.