PS90 vs. Kriss Vector .45

[MilitaryArms]

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I have been told that even though the PS90 clip says 50 rds it really only holds 30 rds. Is this true.

They have both 30 round and 50 round magazines.

 

[Kelevra TAR-21]

For SHTF situations, if you get into a firefight with a bunch of bad guys you'll die. Forget your tactikewl mall ninga warrior rod. Get the hell out of dodge most ricky tick. Vectors are friggin handguns. Why do you want to engage an enemy with a friggin handgun? Because it looks cool? someone with an old Winchester singleshot 22 can kill you from a hundred yards away. The Kriss won't even launch a rock that far, will it? And the PS90, while a nice weapon, can't easily be made to go rata tata tata tat like a good old M16, er, AR15 can.

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I verbally battle members of islam on a daily basis and I know how violent they can get.

 

[lawrra]

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I have been told that even though the PS90 clip says 50 rds it really only holds 30 rds. Is this true.

Whoever told you the PS90 uses clips is ignorant. The magazines I've used held 50 rounds.

 

[Joe Williams]

Help me decide which one to buy. If you are going to do battle in an urban setting which one of these two civilian versions would you want

Why on earth would you want either one? Both are compromise guns, neither are well suited to battle on your own.

Two very poor choices. I'd try again if I were you. A rifle caliber carbine would be much better, and a good old fashioned pump 12ga would be nearly ideal for urban emergencies.

 

[HandK]

And a PS 90 is not an SMG, it is a Semi auto, the SMG is a P 90.

And aren't Christmas breaks from school grand!!

 

[Prometheus]

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I have been told that even though the PS90 [STRIKE]clip[/STRIKE] magazine says 50 rds it really only holds 30 rds. Is this true.

Federal law requires it cannot be shipped with a magazine over 30 rounds, so you are probably thinking about that. FYI in most state, including Indiana, once you receive it you can replace the follower with a standard one or use a dremel and convert it back to it's original 50 rounds capacity. FN also makes a 10 round magazine for states that prohibit magazines over 10 rounds in capacity, I do not know if those are easily converted (for those who live in areas where that is legal), I have never seen one in person.

a good old fashioned pump 12ga would be nearly ideal for urban emergencies.

I can't think of anything that would make a "good old fashion pump" ideal for an urban emergency, such as the OP is talking about.

To me an old fashioned pump holds 5 rounds, however even if you put a magazine extension on it or use a more modern pump with a capacity of 8 rounds, you are limiting yourself immensely right there. Capacity to me also includes the ability to carry ammunition, shells are bulky.

Next is Range, generally 150 meters is "urban distances". Streets, alleys ect obviously go well beyond that. In a normal, everyday sense, you aren't going to be engaging bad guys at 50 meters, let alone 150, but we aren't talking normal. We are talking a SHTF situation, even if it's just on the scale of Katrina or the LA riots. 150 meters is now a lot more likely, especially if the enemy has all day and can take pot shots beyond your range with relative impunity. 150 meters is within the listed effective range of the PS90 and you can reach out beyond that if need be. We can talk about the "punch" the round is going to have at, lets say, 250 meters, but a weak hit beats a miss any day.

Reloading isn't going to be as fast or easy... yeah I know, get a 5 round side saddle or bandoleer... reload between shots, whatever. It's a disadvantage again.

There is no do it all gun, but for what the OP laid out and the choice he gave, the PS90 wins hands down.

My S12 is the bees knees and I'd trust it with my life using buckshot or slugs, it takes 10 round magazines and is, in most every aspect a 12ga AK. Fast to reload and use. I'd still take my PS90 over it given the OP's scenario. The S12 magazines don't take up much more room than the loose ammo would, but for the same room and weight I can carry 70 rounds of 12ga or 350 rounds of 5.7mm. SHTF and I'm all alone, or with only a couple of goodguys... Capacity (both in the weapon and on you) is king IMO.

Simply inside a standard building with a couple of badguys and assuming I was using a longarm, I'd be torn with the PS90 vs S12. Maneuverability and overall length could trump the 12ga advantage. Depends on how tight the building was I suppose... but I digress, again.

Anyway, the object here is not how wise it is to be engaging in gunfights with a numerically superior force. It's how best to deal with it, should you have no choice. At least, that is my take from the OP's posts.

 

[t413]

Federal law requires it cannot be shipped with a magazine over 30 rounds, so you are probably thinking about that. FYI in most state, including Indiana, once you receive it you can replace the follower with a standard one or use a dremel and convert it back to it's original 50 rounds capacity. FN also makes a 10 round magazine for states that prohibit magazines over 10 rounds in capacity, I do not know if those are easily converted (for those who live in areas where that is legal), I have never seen one in person.

A factory PS90 ships with a 50 round mag that has been converted into holding 30 or 10 rounds via a follower block.
It can be easily converted into a 50 round mag by cutting the block down.
Some states such as Ohio claim a gun with a magazine greater than 30 is a MG.
Fed law and lots of weird state/local laws is why it is shipped with a modified 30 round mag.

Now for states that ship with a 10 round mag, its the same story.
Its a modified 50 round mag with a lager follower but they also use epoxy on the floor plate to prevent converting it to a 10+ mag.
The floor plate can still be popped off to defeat the epoxy, cut the follower and you have yourself a 50 round mag.

 

[Stainer]

I had not read a lot about the kriss and had not heard such reviews that they were very unreliable. I was basing my vote on caliber and ammo availability. And yes, if SHTF and it last longer than most of us thought it might, and I run low on ammo, you are darn right I am going to be finding ammo by any means necessary. I don't think you are going to find the 5.7 ammo in nearly as many places as .45. I don't like the fact that you can only get 30 rounds in kriss mags and that is if you bought the more expensive mags. Not sure where I was going with the original thought when I was typing, but bottom line, if there are reliability issues with a firearm, I do NOT want it in my hands when my life is on the line.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Kel Tec RFB 7.62x51 bullpup rifle

+

50rd drum

+

Holo sight with flip-up 3x magnifier.

= me saving my

Among the OP's choices though, I voted PS90. Prometheus did a great job summing up the points. My primary reasons for voting PS90 were the standard mag size & ammo capacity concerns. Anyone not well-trained in urban combat is going to have a lot of misses. There's also the possibility of reloading some steel-tips (if you can find them since FN are poopie heads) and interspersing them throughout your mags.

As far as the pictures I linked above; I'm pretty sure you could easily clear rooms with a .308 bullpup with a 50rd drum & holo sight. The flip up 3x magnifier will easily get you out to 200 yards if needed. But, I'm a big guy & I could easily carry 4 of those drums in an urban environment.

For you normal sized folks, a similar setup, but with .223 out of an MSAR or FS2000 would probably be a lot more prudent than either the PS90 or KRISS...especially if you don't SBR them.

 

[IndianaResident]

How do those drums work on a bullpup?

Never handled them, but I've heard they tend to get in the way up by shoulder?

[Edit] Nevermind, I got caught up in reading threads from a search....

 

[Kelevra TAR-21]

Wow a tie. I have decide to go with the PS90 do to the bad reports about the Kriss malfunctions.

Thank you everyone for voting and giving me great feedback.

 

[HogDaddy]

I have a FN 5.7 and agree with everyone, ammo had to find some time, like a .22 mag, is light in weight. But in CQB or urban enviroment Kriss .45 would be my weapon between the two.

 

[Mordred]

Vector is the way of the future for swat teams. There are already several contracts for the Kris Vectors...i think Las Vegas swat is getting them.

 

[03A3]

I voted Kriss Vector, and I own a SBR PS90. I would much rather have the .45 ACP, the 5.7 x 28 leaves a lot to be desired even before you consider the cost and availability of ammo.
Also the PS90 magazines can be a problem. If you drop a loaded or partially loaded mag they can break and/or jam up.
I read up a little on the Kriss Vector and hope they work out. I would like to get a good look at one. Can they be SBR'd?

 

[turnandshoot4]

Vector is the way of the future for swat teams. There are already several contracts for the Kris Vectors...i think Las Vegas swat is getting them.

I hope they aren't trusting their life to them. Great 14th post.

To the OP:
Will you be dual weilding these with your lightweight perk? I like my ps90 for that. It's great.

 

[Kelevra TAR-21]

I hope they aren't trusting their life to them. Great 14th post.

To the OP:
Will you be dual weilding these with your lightweight perk? I like my ps90 for that. It's great.

It would be interesting to see if you could akimbo PS90s in real life.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Akimbo Definition:
In or into a position in which the hands are on the hips and the elbows are bowed outward

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr_tP9cJWY"]YouTube - Every question and answer on a gun forum[/ame]

About 2 minutes in you'll find what you need.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I fired a Kriss at a range shortly after they came avail to the public.....IMO the reports are right, they suck. Need to be cleaned after every mag to keep them from malfunctioning....PS90.

 

[Kelevra TAR-21]

Wikipedia-
Dual wielding is to hold a weapon in each hand. In gaming a dual wield may also be called akimbo style, though it has little resemblance to the human position of that name. This most commonly refers to matched pairs of handguns but can refer to any other weapon that can be held in one hand such as machine pistols and even melee weapons, although this is more common in role-playing video games.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Are we talking about video games or real life now?

If you "akimbo" them then it is in a video game. If you "dual weild" them then you will likely have little control of either of the weapons.

You should get a .22 and get very good with it. Then work your way up to much stronger weapons. Using something like a ps90 means that ammo will be expensive, which in turns means you will shoot less. Ultimately doing you a disservice.