Pulled over while carrying...

[Roadie]

It's always the right thing to do to inform LEO. You don't want to surprise them or cause any undue stress or further inconvenience.

So, is it also "always the right thing" to let an Officer search your car when they ask, even though you were just pulled over for a speeding ticket?

 

[Hammerhead]

Fixer: I would say the reason he put it in the back seat was for his safety and yours. Not saying you had an itch to use it but we all know what kind of world we live in today. To many officers have been shot for just the smallest traffic stops. But every officer is different. We have the law in our hands and its our descresion wether we choose to use it. I want to point you to State v. Richardson and Washington v. State. Please read these before you go attempting to disarm legal citizens. You'd better bone up on Terry v. Ohio too.

mydoghasfleas: I honestly wouldnt know if they did. Now if i was to ask if you had anything in the car i need to know about and you lie, and i just happen to see one then yes i will be questioning you about it. "I have nothing illegal in my car, officer." And that goes with knifes or other weapons you could use. I'm calling for that one. It is not illegal to carry a knife of any size (switchblades not included, for now). How about my bag of baseball bats when I'm on my way to batting practice? How about my golf clubs on the way to the course? How about my tire iron so I can change my flat tire? How about my car? Any other legal items you want to question me about? How about my cell phone or my bag of doughnuts? Now for the respect thing, I show it 100% of the time no matter what situation. If the person is carrying, all I ask is i need to see their permit and where is the firearm located. Im not going to jump to conclusion and think its goin to be used. Now we may run the serial # just to make sure it doesnt come up stolen but for the most part you are fine. I hope you're perfectly fine setting yourself up for a visit with my lawyer. And of course we will check the permit cause people do try and make false documents. Which is a big NO NO! And that is perfectly fine. But after you've seen my legal LTCH, none of your questions into firearms are valid, including your attempts to disarm me or "run the numbers" for my legally owned firearms.

COMPATRIOT G: Whether you inform him or an officer ask if you have anything, always be honest. Not saying your not but some officers may get red flags. Cause who knows, we have have this thing called probable cause to search your vehicle. You'd better be able to articulate that in front of a judge. You could have a vehicle that matches the description of another one that we are trying to find. This is NOT PC or RAS to conduct a vehicle search. You just never know. Now we are not trying to violate anyones rights here. Perhaps not intentionally, but through ignorance of the law or lack of training. But like i said every officer is different.

Bunnykid68: Let me rephrase that, I'm not saying you have to tell them but if he/she was to ask then obviously say something. Not saying that it will get you out of whatever it is. The only reason we do it is for our safety. We are not out there to violate anyones rights. Is your safety any more important that the safety of the public you serve? Is your safety worth violating someone's rights sometimes? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and that applies to LEOs too. Plus, I have the upmost respect for people no matter what situation. I'm only 24 years old and i have been taught respect by my parents and elders. So of course i will show it.

I think i covered evryone. lol

You are setting yourself up for legal action if you're a LEO and follow your words here. You may not run my firearm serial number without a warrant. You may not disarm me on a traffic stop after I've presented my LTCH. You may not search my vehicle without a warrant. Vehicle matching description is NOT PC or RAS for an illegal search.

I do not have to answer any questions asked of me by a LEO. I can be courteous and answer the questions I feel like. I will not give up my rights to make you "feel" safe.

Don't take my statements here as an attack. I honestly want to see your side of the story.

 

[joshua_xdm]

Like i said before, he may have probable cause to search your vehicle. Whether its for drugs, weapons, etc. Your vehicle could have matched another that could have been involved in a previous crime. Keep in mind, not all cops are perfect. We just do our jobs. But if he doesnt have probable cause then no, we can NOT search your vehicle.

 

[sicegcivic]

I almost always inform the LEO if i am carrying just as a respect thing... I don't see where it can make your experience any smoother to hide that fact or argue with the LEO about running numbers on your weapon etc, even if it is a violation of my rights. Plus I have nothing to hide, so in that instance i would not mind. My main goal is to get my ticket/warning and be on my way as quickly and smoothly as possible... Even though it might be a violation of your rights, and the LEO might be in the wrong (setting himself up for a lawsuit)... Is it really worth the hassle, embarrassment of possibly being detained, and time it will take to possibly win suit against them?

I see all the points that have been made. I believe in my rights... but I do not mind cooperating with a LEO to avoid turning a routine traffic stop into a fiasco!

That and I have never received a ticket while carrying, and have even had officers complement me on my firearms... Maybe I have been lucky to have "cool" cops?

 

[ATM]

... Even though it might be a violation of your rights, and the LEO might be in the wrong (setting himself up for a lawsuit)... Is it really worth the hassle, embarrassment of possibly being detained, and time it will take to possibly win suit against them?

It is absolutely worth it.

Imagine our heritage if everyone had been more concerned with a smooth experience than defending our rights:

I believe in my rights... but I do not mind cooperating with the King's Army to avoid turning a routine seizure of arms into a fiasco!

Luckily, the patriots that stood in 1775 thought differently than the Tories.

 

[sicegcivic]

It is absolutely worth it.

Imagine our heritage if everyone had been more concerned with a smooth experience than defending our rights:



Luckily, the patriots that stood in 1775 thought differently than the Tories.

Excellent point... I suppose if it came down to it being a major problem I would then totally agree with you... so far it hasn't given me any grief. Now if the LEO was to demand that I give him my firearm with no just cause and turn it into a problem my attitude would be 100% on track with what your saying!

Like I said, I guess I have been lucky to have had good experiences.

I appreciate your input due to the fact that most do not know what their rights are.

 

[joshua_xdm]

Nobody said anything about violating anyones rights. Its called department SOP's. No matter what kind of firearm it is, we have to run the serial #'s. Its just to cover you and our a****. We are not trying to take your rights from you guys or disarm you. We have rules that we have to follow and that just so happens to be one of them. You are not in the wrong for carrying. We just check to make sure the weapon doesnt come back stolen or anything. And make sure it is registered to you. Thats it! So I dont understand what all the fuss is about? Its a easy and painless process.

 

[Plinkuh]

...And make sure it is registered to you. Thats it! So I dont understand what all the fuss is about? Its a easy and painless process.

Indiana has a gun registry?!? And, what if the gun doesn't come up as registered to the individual? Private sales are legal...

 

[DaddyFixSemi]

Nobody said anything about violating anyones rights. Its called department SOP's. No matter what kind of firearm it is, we have to run the serial #'s. Its just to cover you and our a****. We are not trying to take your rights from you guys or disarm you. We have rules that we have to follow and that just so happens to be one of them. You are not in the wrong for carrying. We just check to make sure the weapon doesnt come back stolen or anything. And make sure it is registered to you. Thats it! So I dont understand what all the fuss is about? Its a easy and painless process.

Then if that is the case as you say,, Then the departments SOP needs to change to fall in-line with the law, IMHO.

If we did everything the easy and painless way, then we would be no better then the anti-gun, bow down before the man, bleating sheep out there that would have their rights taken away from them, just to save time and hassle.

 

[ATM]

...No matter what kind of firearm it is, we have to run the serial #'s. Its just to cover you and our a**** ...

You don't have to, you don't get to, and if that's your SOP, it is setting your dept. up for a suit. This is why many of us don't inform.

...And make sure it is registered to you.

Not in Indiana you don't.

 

[Roadie]

Nobody said anything about violating anyones rights. Its called department SOP's. No matter what kind of firearm it is, we have to run the serial #'s. Its just to cover you and our a****. We are not trying to take your rights from you guys or disarm you. We have rules that we have to follow and that just so happens to be one of them. You are not in the wrong for carrying. We just check to make sure the weapon doesnt come back stolen or anything. And make sure it is registered to you. Thats it! So I dont understand what all the fuss is about? Its a easy and painless process.

SOPs trump law and rights?? Since when?

Indiana doesnt have registry so you are either uniformed, or lying about the reason you run serial #s..

 

[g00n24]

Nobody said anything about violating anyones rights. Its called department SOP's. No matter what kind of firearm it is, we have to run the serial #'s. Its just to cover you and our a****. We are not trying to take your rights from you guys or disarm you. We have rules that we have to follow and that just so happens to be one of them. You are not in the wrong for carrying. We just check to make sure the weapon doesnt come back stolen or anything. And make sure it is registered to you. Thats it! So I dont understand what all the fuss is about? Its a easy and painless process.

This is why we need negative rep!

 

[joshua_xdm]

So lets say you get a weapon stolen from you. You report it to the police. You give them a description, make, model and serial #'s. It goes in the system. So lets just say i just so happen to pull someone over and i find a gun in the car. We run the information and something comes up that it has been reported stolen. Same decription and everything. Would you be happy that it was found? We do it for a reason. Not to hurt your feelings or anything.

Or this: Again gun is stolen from you. You dont report it and some guy robs a store and the gun is dropped accidently. The police run the numbers and it comes up registered to you. That would suck!

 

[DragonGunner]

OH MY.....I knew sooner or later this thread would get good. The things some LEO's say on here.....its amazing. I don't know if I should laugh or be terrified....

 

[Plinkuh]

So lets say you get a weapon stolen from you. You report it to the police. You give them a description, make, model and serial #'s. It goes in the system. So lets just say i just so happen to pull someone over and i find a gun in the car. We run the information and something comes up that it has been reported stolen. Same decription and everything. Would you be happy that it was found? We do it for a reason. Not to hurt your feelings or anything.

Or this: Again gun is stolen from you. You dont report it and some guy robs a store and the gun is dropped accidently. The police run the numbers and it comes up registered to you. That would suck!

Are you anactual LEO?

 

[eldirector]

So lets say you get a weapon stolen from you. You report it to the police. You give them a description, make, model and serial #'s. It goes in the system. So lets just say i just so happen to pull someone over and i find a gun in the car. We run the information and something comes up that it has been reported stolen. Same decription and everything. Would you be happy that it was found? We do it for a reason. Not to hurt your feelings or anything.

Would I be happy my property was found? Sure. Especially if you actually give it back, rather than toss it in an evidence locker for all eternity. DO you run the serial number on the GameBoys, iPods, phones, etc.. you find as well? Jsut in case they were reported stolen?

Or this: Again gun is stolen from you. You dont report it and some guy robs a store and the gun is dropped accidently. The police run the numbers and it comes up registered to you. That would suck!

How? First, there is no registry, so how on earth would you know it was mine? Second, if you DID find out I was a previous owner, what are you going to do? Charge me with the robbery?

I need to scroll back through this thread and find out what database has all of the gun registry stuff in it. I keep hearing about it, but don't know what on earth it is.

 

[joshua_xdm]

I dont make the rules, i just have to inforce them. I understand where you all are coming from. I am not against you guys. I do agree, why should i have to hand over my firearm that i am registered to have and have a permit for. Its the way it is.

 

[DaddyFixSemi]

Are you anactual LEO?

I think the bigger question is. Does he even care about other people's constitutional and legal right's as afforded them by our founding fathers.

 

[DaddyFixSemi]

I dont make the rules, i just have to inforce them. I understand where you all are coming from. I am not against you guys. I do agree, why should i have to hand over my firearm that i am registered to have and have a permit for. Its the way it is.

You also have to ability to use your mind, as to whither or not a department policy should or should not be followed. If I recall correctly every law enforcement officer swear's an oath of office to uphold the laws they enforce.

you need to remember that as a LEO if that is what you are, then you held to a higher standard then the general public,

How can you enforce the law, if you aren't held to the same laws as to which you enforce.

one more thing, the role of any law enforcement is, to Protect and Serve, not Intimidate and profit.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Josh (if that is your real name):

How do you sleep at night knowing you are promoting what you are saying - intentionally violating rights. I have been reading and hoping you were just miscommunicating what you really do.

Are you saying that if a driver produces a valid LTCH, that you still run the serial numbers to see if it is stolen?



Also, I know there is not an FAQ on INGO, but if there were it would probably address your comment regarding IN's gun registry. There is only a gun registry if you OC. that is why we have a LTCH (aka "concealed carry permit"). Got it?