Question about arming family.

[Mij]

Any action 223 vs .308, 30-06, 270, 54R, 7.62 NATO, so on so on don’t seem like a good idea. Especially in open country.

 

[BigRed]

I should have expanded more, its difficult for two or three to protect a four or more sided building.

True.

That's where punji pits, trip wire, dogs, hogs, and such come in handy.

Of course, fbi and atf will do all they can to eliminate dogs...and women...and children.

No worries though...limited state and all.

 

[bwframe]

I think the Ruger PC carbine is your answer.

Easy enough for a newbie. Relatively mild recoil. Heavy for what it is, which is good in this case. Uses Glock mags. Comes with irons and picitiny for a variety of optics, lights, etc.

9mm works for everything a new to guns shooter needs. Defense, of course. For (SHTF) hunting, it works for close range precision shots. Newbies don't need to be "shooting at" anything. Practiced precise shots only. 100 yards and in.

Even in bad times, 9mm is relatively inexpensive and available. Plenty of ammo to practice (preferably supervised) until proficient with this good tool.

Now I need to go shop for one, dammit...

 

[Mij]

I should have expanded more, its difficult for two or three to protect a four or more sided building.

Not my job to teach.

Field Manual


Tower, cupola on a barn. Hole in roof.

 

[1nderbeard]

Right now? I'm the only gun guy in my immediate and extended family. So some people are just gonna be on the their own; I don't have enough to arm everyone.

For now my immediate family is a work in progress.
My wife is capable enough to hold a shotgun over a door and blast anyone who opens it. She's shot an AR 15 before, about 8 years ago, but probably isn't capable of figuring out how to operate it. Handgun is a no go for her. I'd probably give her a .410 pump with as hot a load as I had on hand. Put her in the back room with the youngest 2.

I've started to train up my 8 year old on a 10/22. He's good enough to get hits on a half size man target at 50 and 100 yards. I'd have to load for him, but I'd give him a 25 round mag and set him up in the house with some kind of shooting support. Might even have him shoot out of the windows. Give him a suppressor for flash and sound hiding.

I'm decent with the glock platform. I can hit man sized targets at 200 yards with a rifle. I can knock squirrels out of trees with a 10/22. I'd probably arm myself with an AK or AR15 with 762x39 and do most of the shooting.

I have no illusions of winning any kind of firefight at present, but we'd take a few with us if a group decided to try the house. To be honest, hate to even think about it.

 

[Mij]

Right now? I'm the only gun guy in my immediate and extended family. So some people are just gonna be on the their own; I don't have enough to arm everyone.

For now my immediate family is a work in progress.
My wife is capable enough to hold a shotgun over a door and blast anyone who opens it. She's shot an AR 15 before, about 8 years ago, but probably isn't capable of figuring out how to operate it. Handgun is a no go for her. I'd probably give her a .410 pump with as hot a load as I had on hand. Put her in the back room with the youngest 2.

I've started to train up my 8 year old on a 10/22. He's good enough to get hits on a half size man target at 50 and 100 yards. I'd have to load for him, but I'd give him a 25 round mag and set him up in the house with some kind of shooting support. Might even have him shoot out of the windows. Give him a suppressor for flash and sound hiding.

I'm decent with the glock platform. I can hit man sized targets at 200 yards with a rifle. I can knock squirrels out of trees with a 10/22. I'd probably arm myself with an AK or AR15 with 762x39 and do most of the shooting.

I have no illusions of winning any kind of firefight at present, but we'd take a few with us if a group decided to try the house. To be honest, hate to even think about it.

Remember the Alomo they lost ya, but they taught the Mexicans about attacking a fortified, elevated position.

Teach your wife to reload mags, buy lots and lots of mags. Two or three of the exact same rifle.

Get a couple gross o sand bags n order a triaxel full of pea fill. #8 or like size stone is better but hard to shovel.

 

[BigRed]

I have no illusions of winning any kind of firefight at present, but we'd take a few with us if a group decided to try the house. To be honest, hate to even think about it.

Yep.

That's when the plunger on the munitions goes.

I honestly hate to think about it as well.

 

[Route 45]

If SHTF is your number 1 consideration when choosing what firearms to keep on hand, then you should pick a platform in handguns or rifles and buy multiple copies, with a bucket of mags for each platform. And stick to 1 or 2 calibers in handguns, and 1 or 2 calibers in rifles. Shotguns are irrelevant, they are short range and low capacity. You're not going deer hunting, you'll be at home shooting the guy trying to steal your last box of Twinkies.

For handguns, regardless of environment (rural or urban), I'd go with the Glock platform in 9mm. Mags are cheap and available, ammo is the most common, parts and accessories are everywhere and you can always pick up PSA Dagger pistols as budget minded handout pistols if needed. The bad guy will also probably have a Glock 9mm. so bonus freebie if he loses the Twinkie fight.

It might not be a bad idea to keep a couple of 9mm carbines around, as they are easy to handle for a new shooter and extend the range an accuracy of the multiple buckets of 9mm ammo that you should have on hand. I'd recommend the Ruger PC Carbine with the Glock mag block installed, to double the utility of your pistol mags.

If you can't even say the word Glock without feeling like you are going to vom a little bit, I like the M&P as an alternative. The M&P 9 2.0 is an excellent pistol. They can be had for fairly reasonable money used, and mags are not all that expensive.

If one of your team is an absolute non-gun noob, and can't figure out how to operate a Glock, a good 357 Magnum revolver is a viable alternative. Smiths and Colts are pretty, but a Ruger GP100 would be my pick for social work during World War Z. I have zero use for a revolver in my day to day non-SHTF life, but I still own 2 GP100s.

As far as rifles, that depends on what you expect your range to be. If you live on acres of open ground, I'd be more inclined to suggest a .308 of some sort with suitable optics. Probably an AR10 platform. But that's not for a novice shooter. The AR-15 is fine for defense for most imaginable engagements related to SHTF. If multiple shooters with AR-15s are not sufficient, you are probably SOL anyway.

The AR-15 is my main platform, but I do keep an AK on hand just for fun. Unlike my ARs, I run it with iron sights. A brutally effective weapon up close and at midrange, probably better than an AR against vehicles. And stupid simple to operate for just about anyone. I'd find it hard to argue with someone who chooses the AK platform over the AR, as long as they have sufficient mags and ammo in stock, and don't mind the more limited optics mounting options. Needs nothing but motor oil to keep it running, or you can pee in the action to clear it in a pinch.

Put aside any notion of bolt actions, lever actions, pumps, etc. Volume of fire can turn things in your favor if the number of available defenders is limited. SHTF is not likely to be a sunny day resting against an oak and sizing up a deer in your sights at 125 yards. But even then, an AR will get the job done with the right ammo. And it can still rain hellfire down on your enemies much easier than any late 1800's era weapon design.

Here's a good read. Once you've got your handgun and rifle platforms picked, you've got a heck of a lot more to worry about:

How I survived a year of SHTF in 90s Bosnia

No electricity, no food, no running water, no law. In a now legendary forum thread, a user named Selco tells preppers about his experiences and what he and his family did to stay alive.

prephole.com

 

[BigRed]

If SHTF is your number 1 consideration when choosing what firearms to keep on hand, then you should pick a platform in handguns or rifles and buy multiple copies, with a bucket of mags for each platform. And stick to 1 or 2 calibers in handguns, and 1 or 2 calibers in rifles. Shotguns are irrelevant, they are short range and low capacity. You're not going deer hunting, you'll be at home shooting the guy trying to steal your last box of Twinkies.

For handguns, regardless of environment (rural or urban), I'd go with the Glock platform in 9mm. Mags are cheap and available, ammo is the most common, parts and accessories are everywhere and you can always pick up PSA Dagger pistols as budget minded handout pistols if needed. The bad guy will also probably have a Glock 9mm. so bonus freebie if he loses the Twinkie fight.

It might not be a bad idea to keep a couple of 9mm carbines around, as they are easy to handle for a new shooter and extend the range an accuracy of the multiple buckets of 9mm ammo that you should have on hand. I'd recommend the Ruger PC Carbine with the Glock mag block installed, to double the utility of your pistol mags.

If you can't even say the word Glock without feeling like you are going to vom a little bit, I like the M&P as an alternative. The M&P 9 2.0 is an excellent pistol. They can be had for fairly reasonable money used, and mags are not all that expensive.

If one of your team is an absolute non-gun noob, and can't figure out how to operate a Glock, a good 357 Magnum revolver is a viable alternative. Smiths and Colts are pretty, but a Ruger GP100 would be my pick for social work during World War Z. I have zero use for a revolver in my day to day non-SHTF life, but I still own 2 GP100s.

As far as rifles, that depends on what you expect your range to be. If you live on acres of open ground, I'd be more inclined to suggest a .308 of some sort with suitable optics. Probably an AR10 platform. But that's not for a novice shooter. The AR-15 is fine for defense for most imaginable engagements related to SHTF. If multiple shooters with AR-15s are not sufficient, you are probably SOL anyway.

The AR-15 is my main platform, but I do keep an AK on hand just for fun. Unlike my ARs, I run it with iron sights. A brutally effective weapon up close and at midrange, probably better than an AR against vehicles. And stupid simple to operate for just about anyone. I'd find it hard to argue with someone who chooses the AK platform over the AR, as long as they have sufficient mags and ammo in stock, and don't mind the more limited optics mounting options. Needs nothing but motor oil to keep it running, or you can pee in the action to clear it in a pinch.

Put aside any notion of bolt actions, lever actions, pumps, etc. Volume of fire can turn things in your favor if the number of available defenders is limited. SHTF is not likely to be a sunny day resting against an oak and sizing up a deer in your sights at 125 yards. But even then, an AR will get the job done with the right ammo. And it can still rain hellfire down on your enemies much easier than any late 1800's era weapon design.

Here's a good read. Once you've got your handgun and rifle platforms picked, you've got a heck of a lot more to worry about:

How I survived a year of SHTF in 90s Bosnia

No electricity, no food, no running water, no law. In a now legendary forum thread, a user named Selco tells preppers about his experiences and what he and his family did to stay alive.

prephole.com

Yep.

 

[Mij]

I collect smiths, but must wholeheartedly agree with the opinion on the Rugers.

Something to consider is, some of us (me) have the advantage/disadvantage of being older. And have been watching out for a natural or man made catastrophe for a long time. We all started out from scratch. I’ve had the added advantage of growing up with parents and grandparents that lived through the Great Depression, nothing beats experience and they had it in spades. Some folks on here may have to go through a similar situation. The discord in America today is greater than anytime I have seen in my life, and that includes the 60’s and 70’s. Hang in there, we’re near the bottom the only way to go is up. JMO

 

[Creedmoor]

Remember the Alomo they lost ya, but they taught the Mexicans about attacking a fortified, elevated position.

Teach your wife to reload mags, buy lots and lots of mags. Two or three of the exact same pistol and rifle.

Remember one is none, two is one.
But four is four.

 

[ditcherman]

If SHTF is your number 1 consideration when choosing what firearms to keep on hand, then you should pick a platform in handguns or rifles and buy multiple copies, with a bucket of mags for each platform. And stick to 1 or 2 calibers in handguns, and 1 or 2 calibers in rifles. Shotguns are irrelevant, they are short range and low capacity. You're not going deer hunting, you'll be at home shooting the guy trying to steal your last box of Twinkies.

For handguns, regardless of environment (rural or urban), I'd go with the Glock platform in 9mm. Mags are cheap and available, ammo is the most common, parts and accessories are everywhere and you can always pick up PSA Dagger pistols as budget minded handout pistols if needed. The bad guy will also probably have a Glock 9mm. so bonus freebie if he loses the Twinkie fight.

It might not be a bad idea to keep a couple of 9mm carbines around, as they are easy to handle for a new shooter and extend the range an accuracy of the multiple buckets of 9mm ammo that you should have on hand. I'd recommend the Ruger PC Carbine with the Glock mag block installed, to double the utility of your pistol mags.

If you can't even say the word Glock without feeling like you are going to vom a little bit, I like the M&P as an alternative. The M&P 9 2.0 is an excellent pistol. They can be had for fairly reasonable money used, and mags are not all that expensive.

If one of your team is an absolute non-gun noob, and can't figure out how to operate a Glock, a good 357 Magnum revolver is a viable alternative. Smiths and Colts are pretty, but a Ruger GP100 would be my pick for social work during World War Z. I have zero use for a revolver in my day to day non-SHTF life, but I still own 2 GP100s.

As far as rifles, that depends on what you expect your range to be. If you live on acres of open ground, I'd be more inclined to suggest a .308 of some sort with suitable optics. Probably an AR10 platform. But that's not for a novice shooter. The AR-15 is fine for defense for most imaginable engagements related to SHTF. If multiple shooters with AR-15s are not sufficient, you are probably SOL anyway.

The AR-15 is my main platform, but I do keep an AK on hand just for fun. Unlike my ARs, I run it with iron sights. A brutally effective weapon up close and at midrange, probably better than an AR against vehicles. And stupid simple to operate for just about anyone. I'd find it hard to argue with someone who chooses the AK platform over the AR, as long as they have sufficient mags and ammo in stock, and don't mind the more limited optics mounting options. Needs nothing but motor oil to keep it running, or you can pee in the action to clear it in a pinch.

Put aside any notion of bolt actions, lever actions, pumps, etc. Volume of fire can turn things in your favor if the number of available defenders is limited. SHTF is not likely to be a sunny day resting against an oak and sizing up a deer in your sights at 125 yards. But even then, an AR will get the job done with the right ammo. And it can still rain hellfire down on your enemies much easier than any late 1800's era weapon design.

Here's a good read. Once you've got your handgun and rifle platforms picked, you've got a heck of a lot more to worry about:

How I survived a year of SHTF in 90s Bosnia

No electricity, no food, no running water, no law. In a now legendary forum thread, a user named Selco tells preppers about his experiences and what he and his family did to stay alive.

prephole.com

Interesting that Selco emphasizes having a group for defense, as opposed to individuals. He doesn’t think the lone ranger would have any chance of survival.
Also interesting to note why/hoe he thinks the war started, basically came from division of the people, much like we see here.

 

[BigRed]

Threads like this always make me chuckle.

Hmmm.


individualist

team

 

[Steve]

For what it's worth, I would go with a layered defensive ability. If the SHTF happens, one need to be prepared for any situation. AR for distance shooting, 12 ga Maverick 7 rd for close up work, and a handgun on you at all times. Multiply these items by the number of people in your group and plenty of ammo for each weapon. Initially, you will be in a defensive position, so hunting may not be much of an option. And think of how many "newbies" will be in the woods with no clue of what they are doing. Not a good place to be.

Even more important then weapons will be creating a survival mindset within your group. How do you teach a 12 year old boy or girl that they have to kill a human being? Are you and they prepared for the mental and emotional nightmare after such and event? Talking about choice of weapons and various scenarios is all well and good, but you also need to discuss the harsh realities of taking a life in order to preserve your way of life.

There is a reason it is called "SHTF".

 

[Sagamore - One]

Mel Tappan wrote an excellent book on this very subject and while it is dated, it is quite good information. Name of book is SURVIVAL GUNS.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I see this turned into a surviving the apocalypse thread.

That's not how I read the OP. I read it as someone wanting to supplement food and some defense. The person described in post #1 is not going to be defending a homestead.

 

[grayishman]

Off of what I'd have on hand if not for the tragic boating accident?
SKS for the people who can handle a little kick, kel-tec sub-2000 for those who can't. video games have ruined non-shooters impressions of what a shotgun can do and I wouldn't trust someone with it I hadn't had just a little time to explain how spread works to.

In a dream world? The AK-47 platform was designed to be used by illiterate former peasants. It's not my favorite platform but it's a tried and true solution to just that problem.

 

[Route 45]

I see this turned into a surviving the apocalypse thread.

That's not how I read the OP. I read it as someone wanting to supplement food and some defense. The person described in post #1 is not going to be defending a homestead.

I can’t speak for OP, but thinking about a firearm for each and every family member (arming the family) seems like homestead defense prep to me. Regardless, anything well suited for SHTF is also well suited for SHTF Lite.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I can’t speak for OP, but thinking about a firearm for each and every family member (arming the family) seems like homestead defense prep to me. Regardless, anything well suited for SHTF is also well suited for SHTF Lite.

Did you even read post #1?

Let's say you were thinking things were about to get tough where for whatever reason your beloved family was going to need a gun for food and a layer of home defense.

I don't believe he is talking about a gun for each and every family member.

 

[1nderbeard]

Did you even read post #1?

Let's say you were thinking things were about to get tough where for whatever reason your beloved family was going to need a gun for food and a layer of home defense.

I don't believe he is talking about a gun for each and every family member.

I initially read it as guns for arming your family "squad."

If I had to choose just one I'd have to rethink.

Prob a 10/22 or something that shoots 22lr.