red dot size

[cedartop]

"I sure wouldnt use a Vortex for EDC"

I am curious - Why is that? Reliabiltiy?

Thank you.

Tom

Sorry I missed this earlier.

I have nothing against the Vortex brand but to paraphrase Aaron Cowan from Sage Dynamics they are not "duty ready". I have personally had bad luck with their RDS on pistols and seen many others have issues with them as well. None of the "name" people in the training industry recommend them for serious use. For many it is the durability aspect. For me an EDC RDS has to have exceptional battery life. Presently that comes down to Trijicon or maybe Holosun. (Still checking that one out.) I want an optic that I can leave on all of the time and change the battery out once a year. The downside to that for the Trijicon is that you have to take the optic off to change the battery. Now, I will concede that duty use is not necessarily the same as carry use for regular non LE people. We probably wont be bashing our guns around, dropping them, or doing a lot of one handed manipulations. None of the optics are yet ideal for the purpose. They all have issues.

I have linked it before but I recommend anyone serious about using a red dot on pistols for EDC to check this out. https://1312bba5-e7e7-76e8-1fca-a01...d/7dc128_21de6dec9537496b9c0ff74a0c1370c2.pdf

 

[Nolan1984]

I like a smaller dot. They're more precise, and you can turn the brightness up, so that our blooms some, if you need a bigger dot for some reason.

 

[Tombs]

When you're just starting, you'll like having a larger dot, or a holosun with the ring and a dot.

Once you're proficient, you'll wish you would have got a smaller dot.

I wish more companies offered the ring and dot for a handgun RDS, because it's an exceptionally good compromise, as would be an X.

If this is for an EDC pistol, there's really only one sight I'd recommend, and that's any of the trijicon RMR models, but especially a type 2 RM06.
Your life depends on this sighting system, and there's nothing else as durable or as reliable. The gap in durability and reliability between the RMR and everything else is also massive as this isn't an area most companies have prioritized properly yet. Some of the new holosuns are certainly closing that gap.

Basically if the lens isn't shielded by a significant amount of metal in the frame, it's a no-go for anything other than range fun. They are incredibly fragile.

I wouldn't even recommend the aimpoint offering, as the battery life is so far behind everything else that I think it'll cause bad habits to develop, with shutting the sight off.

If an RMR is too much money I'd recommend sticking with good sights.
You'll also be significantly faster with iron sights than you will be with a red dot, until you have a couple thousand rounds down range with it.

 

[cedartop]

[video=youtube;yvrRzb0Q4XQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvrRzb0Q4XQ[/video]

Good general information here, if a little dry. Nice size comparison.

 

[gregkl]

[video=youtube;yvrRzb0Q4XQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvrRzb0Q4XQ[/video]

Good general information here, if a little dry. Nice size comparison.

I get the suggestion to start out with a bigger dot and then when you get better with it, go to a smaller dot.

I don't want to spend that kind of money. I'd rather decide where I ultimately want to be (smaller dot) and jump in right away. I have relatively few presentations (less than 1000) and I'm already good at picking up the dot. I'm better at picking up the dot than I am at lining the front sight with the top of rears perfectly centered that's for sure.

 

[cedartop]

I get the suggestion to start out with a bigger dot and then when you get better with it, go to a smaller dot.

I don't want to spend that kind of money. I'd rather decide where I ultimately want to be (smaller dot) and jump in right away. I have relatively few presentations (less than 1000) and I'm already good at picking up the dot. I'm better at picking up the dot than I am at lining the front sight with the top of rears perfectly centered that's for sure.

I agree that you want to try and find out where you want to be and then get that. It makes total sense. The fact that there is no real consensus can make that a little tough. IMHO, for most people on a carry gun, a midsize dot will probably be best. In the neighborhood of 3-6 MOA. As always it would be best if you could see what that looks like before you spend the cash

 

[gregkl]

I agree that you want to try and find out where you want to be and then get that. It makes total sense. The fact that there is no real consensus can make that a little tough. IMHO, for most people on a carry gun, a midsize dot will probably be best. In the neighborhood of 3-6 MOA. As always it would be best if you could see what that looks like before you spend the cash

My Holosun is a 2 MOA dot, but after trying out a Trijicon RMR this weekend with the 3.25 moa dot, I am in the right size range for me.

I bought the Holosun to kinda dip my toes into red dots to see if I would really want to use them. I figured it's less of an initial investment and if I like it, the mounting pattern is the same as the RMR. After checking one out this weekend, the RMR shows me a crisper "circle" than my Holosun. I probably should have just purchased the RMR from the start. I wasn't exactly following my philosophy of "the best is just good enough for me" and buying once, crying once.

Not going to make any changes yet, but I can see me selling the Holosun at some point and buying the RMR Type 2 for my compact and the RMRCC for my Shield.

 

[CCPLuvr]

For a short range gun, a carry gun, I would use a 6 MOA. On my match guns I'm using a 4MOA which suits my eye nicely out to 50 yards.

 

[brentperry47905]

The Venom is nice. Unsure if the RMR is worth the extra $$$.
Would love to try the RMR on the Glock45.

 

[gregkl]

The Venom is nice. Unsure if the RMR is worth the extra $$$.
Would love to try the RMR on the Glock45.

View attachment 91321

I like the Vortex for my .22 pistol for plinking. For anything else, I don't care for it. I run mine on manual mode as I don't want the brightness to change and in manual mode you have to power it up and down and I don't want to have to turn it on in a defensive situation.

And the battery life is not very long in constant on, manual mode. Ask me how I know.

 

[bwframe]

I'm hoping Vortex brings a new "always on" defensive carry gun RDS into the market soon. Another company to help bring those sights down to realistic prices. That said, Vortex may be waiting for others to do the guinea pig work to copy them?

For that matter, maybe Vortex is actually selling a bunch of Vipers and Venoms as they are for such use? While not RMR sturdy, they bounce off the ground better than some of the rest. Always on is hard to argue with, but setting a phone alarm to cycle your sight on and off twice daily could be doable?

 

[700 LTR 223]

The Venom is nice. Unsure if the RMR is worth the extra $$$.
Would love to try the RMR on the Glock45.

View attachment 91321

The Venom is what I have on my G34 MOS and it works well for 25 and 50 yard shooting. The G34 is not kept loaded as a defensive handgun.

 

[gregkl]

I'm hoping Vortex brings a new "always on" defensive carry gun RDS into the market soon. Another company to help bring those sights down to realistic prices. That said, Vortex may be waiting for others to do the guinea pig work to copy them?

For that matter, maybe Vortex is actually selling a bunch of Vipers and Venoms as they are for such use? While not RMR sturdy, they bounce off the ground better than some of the rest. Always on is hard to argue with, but setting a phone alarm to cycle your sight on and off twice daily could be doable?

Yup, doable. There is usually a work around. I like the shake awake feature the best...until that added piece of technology fails and I'm in a gunfight shaking my pistol at the bad guy,lol.

I think the simplicity of the RMR being always on probably adds to its overall ruggedness. And changing the battery on your birthday every year should provide a pretty good assurance that it will be ready at all times. Especially since they advertise the battery lasting for years.

 

[wizardfitz]

Should have asked this earlier. Will I need the glock plate trijicon sells, or the ones with the glock 45 mos work?

 

[cedartop]

Should have asked this earlier. Will I need the glock plate trijicon sells, or the ones with the glock 45 mos work?

It should come with one that works. Some will say not to depend on the factory Glock plate. I don't know, I only have one MOS the rest of mine are direct milled, but the stock plate has made it through 3 years of matches and 30,000 plus rounds. I did succumb to peer pressure though and order a C and H precision plate to use on my new 45 and Trijicon SRO. https://www.bigtexoutdoors.com/prod...n-407c-407c-v2-507c-507c-v2-508t-and-508t-v2/

 

[mike4]

Astigmatism side-topic data points updating my post #32, 2nd paragraph; where I noted a SIG Romeo I looked through once was less distorted, and I've seen comments to that effect about the Holosun including pistol models.

I just had a chance to look through a Holosun 403R (dot only) and 503R (dot plus circle) side by side. These are Aimpoint Micro sized red dots and fit the same mounts. The 403R dot looked typical "starbursty" very similar to and no better than a real Aimpoint Micro; plenty usable for me as are the Aimpoint Micro and Comp Mx, contending with some dot fuzziness as is typically the case with astigmatism. The dot on the 503R looked just like the 403R at each equivalent brightness setting, but the surrounding EOTech-style circle did look fairly crisp. It would be a real luxury if all the dots looked that crisp.

On the original topic, a friend that is way further down the training and learning curve for pistol red dots was running an RMR Type 2 then added a Holosun 407C and he reports he is moving up to 6MOA for the next one that he buys, thinking it will provide a speed advantage that offsets any negatives of the larger dot.

 

[beer leaguer]

I just ordered a venom 6moa from the west coast for a pretty good price. After going through all the reviews of the more affordable sights, im hoping I made the right choice.

 

[Sigblitz]

I'm a 2 moa guy.

 

[gregkl]

Thought I'd give an update on my dot progress thus far. I have been running a Holosun HS407C on my pistol. It is the 2 MOA dot. I decided that I wanted to change to the Trijicon RMR. I debated on the 3.25 and 6.5 MOA dot. I really thought that since I had a 2, I wouldn't want anything more than the 3.25.

After reading here, a couple other threads on INGO, Sage Dynamics videos and a few other videos I bought the 6.5 even though I had never looked at one.

I am so glad I did! That dot is not much bigger than my Holosun dot and will be great for me. I am fairly confident I would have ended up not liking the 3.25.

I may use my Holosun as a back up on my rifle or sell it. I'll think about it for awhile.

And though I liked my "shake awake" feature of the Holosun, I am fine with leaving the RMR "always on". I'll change the battery on my birthday which is probably about two years earlier than necessary.

 

[cedartop]

Thought I'd give an update on my dot progress thus far. I have been running a Holosun HS407C on my pistol. It is the 2 MOA dot. I decided that I wanted to change to the Trijicon RMR. I debated on the 3.25 and 6.5 MOA dot. I really thought that since I had a 2, I wouldn't want anything more than the 3.25.

After reading here, a couple other threads on INGO, Sage Dynamics videos and a few other videos I bought the 6.5 even though I had never looked at one.

I am so glad I did! That dot is not much bigger than my Holosun dot and will be great for me. I am fairly confident I would have ended up not liking the 3.25.

I may use my Holosun as a back up on my rifle or sell it. I'll think about it for awhile.

And though I liked my "shake awake" feature of the Holosun, I am fine with leaving the RMR "always on". I'll change the battery on my birthday which is probably about two years earlier than necessary.

I forgot to change it one year and it went dead about a week before my birthday the following year.