Road rage in Shelbyville - what if?

[Dirtebiker]

Sometimes Maneuvering is not an option. If it is then put some distance on the situation and get LEO involved.

If not, with out actually being there it would be very hard to say what I would do. I know what I have done in the past when things go south.

What would YOU know about traffic you can't maneuver in?

 

[Tactically Fat]

the driver had his gun in his lap . Its rumored that he didn't want to wash the blood off the car , and deal with the courts to get his gun back .

Glad you're OK.

 

[ScouT6a]

Be aggressive enough, early enough.
I've witnessed some road rage and been on the receiving end of it a couple of times.
If a guy punches his fist through your driver's side window, that IS the time for lead to exit the barrel.
How quickly could he turn around and punch you in the head with that fist that had enough power to break out your window? (Which is not an easy task, by the way!)
This guy is not just agitated. He is in full blown road RAGE.
Drop him and dial 911.

 

[singlesix]

26 year old vs. 60 year old, the equalizer is a gun.

 

[lrahm]

Prosecutors differ in opinions from one county to the next. Ours might determine the strike to be "misdemeanor battery". I would say that you have to articulate your fear more that he was just mad because I cut him off.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Prosecutors differ in opinions from one county to the next. Ours might determine the strike to be "misdemeanor battery". I would say that you have to articulate your fear more that he was just mad because I cut him off.

I'm not sure but I don't believe the level of offense from the attacker (misdemeanor battery vs attempted robbery) really matters for self defense. The law only requires reasonable fear of serious bodily harm/injury/death, etc to justify use of deadly force.

I'd like to believe smashing in my drivers side window would be akin to kicking in the front door of my house. It's forced entry into my castle. If the perp is strong and psycho enough to smash the window with a fist, he's probably looking to gain entry to seriously hurt me. Seems justified in my book.

 

[eldirector]

IC is even more clear than that. "prevent or terminate ... an attack on an occupied motor vehicle". Actually takes the reasonable fear out of the equation.

You can't:
- put someone in reasonable fear of serious injury
- OR kick in someone's front door
- OR bust out someone's car window (with them inside)
UNLESS you want shot.

Yeah, yeah.. way over simplified.

 

[lrahm]

I'm not sure but I don't believe the level of offense from the attacker (misdemeanor battery vs attempted robbery) really matters for self defense. The law only requires reasonable fear of serious bodily harm/injury/death, etc to justify use of deadly force.

I'd like to believe smashing in my drivers side window would be akin to kicking in the front door of my house. It's forced entry into my castle. If the perp is strong and psycho enough to smash the window with a fist, he's probably looking to gain entry to seriously hurt me. Seems justified in my book.

I sure don't remember the words "robbery" ever came into play. As far as what the law states it is usually up to that county's prosecutor to see or to charge what he thinks is reasonable. I've had many cases where charges were filed and the next day they were changed. That is why I stated that the victim MUST be able to articulate why he was in fear of his own safety. If he gets punched, odds are most he might be charge with is misdemeanor battery. At no time was it explained that he was repeatedly struck, caused severe pain to the point of passing out or broke any bones. I think the best thing would have been to leave the scene and report this asap.

I have been a patrol sergeant for too many years. I feel discouraged when I call a detective out and instead of the suspect being charged with what he should be charged with he only gets charged with what the prosecutor will eventually charge him with. It is like an office od Deputy prosecutors.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I sure don't remember the words "robbery" ever came into play. As far as what the law states it is usually up to that county's prosecutor to see or to charge what he thinks is reasonable. I've had many cases where charges were filed and the next day they were changed. That is why I stated that the victim MUST be able to articulate why he was in fear of his own safety. If he gets punched, odds are most he might be charge with is misdemeanor battery. At no time was it explained that he was repeatedly struck, caused severe pain to the point of passing out or broke any bones. I think the best thing would have been to leave the scene and report this asap.

I have been a patrol sergeant for too many years. I feel discouraged when I call a detective out and instead of the suspect being charged with what he should be charged with he only gets charged with what the prosecutor will eventually charge him with. It is like an office od Deputy prosecutors.

The victim must not explain anything. The victims attorney should do any explaining. If the victim is feeling brave they can say they were in fear for their life cause this guy busted out my window as he said he was going to kill me. That is all the victim should say if anything at all.

The occupied vehicle is under the castle doctrine, physical damage needs to be taken or any more forceable felonies need to be committed for righteous self-defense.

Yes if you kill somebody you're likely going to jail, being alive and out of prison is the end game. Let the lawyer do the explaining.

 

[SSGSAD]

Prosecutors differ in opinions from one county to the next. Ours might determine the strike to be "misdemeanor battery". I would say that you have to articulate your fear more that he was just mad because I cut him off.

I may be wrong, it is not often, but it does happen .....

I thought when the word KILL, came out of someones' mouth, then all bets are off ......

LEO, Attorney ????????????

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I may be wrong, it is not often, but it does happen .....

I thought when the word KILL, came out of someones' mouth, then all bets are off ......

LEO, Attorney ????????????

Need means and opportunity to carry out threat.

 

[BIGE7.62]

Okay so I've read this thread from the op until SSGSAD's post [LEO ,Attorney]
Ive carried a firearm as a soldier and a civilian, have one on me everyday . This whole "I'll shoot first " I just don't get !?!?!?!?!?!?!?
A firearm is "THE LAST RESORT".
So maybe I come from some place in a freaken time warp , but I was taught to use my hands, feet , teeth or what the hell ever before the gun .
I just dont get this whole shoot'em F*%KEN attitude that seems so common today

Now than I've been shot, stabbed , hit with beer bottles , beer mugs , pool cue's, pool ball's, Had knives , guns pulled on me ,and I have yet to shoot a civilian .

By NO means trying to play/ say I'm Billy Bad Ass or knock someone else .
Just my 2cent's

Peace Out
Big E

 

[Dead Duck]

Okay so I've read this thread from the op until SSGSAD's post [LOE ,Attorney]
Ive carried a firearm as a soldier and a civilian, have one on me everyday . This whole "I'll shoot first " I just don't get !?!?!?!?!?!?!?
A firearm is "THE LAST RESORT".
So maybe I come from some place in a freaken time warp , but I was taught to use my hands, feet , teeth or what the hell ever before the gun .
I just dont get this whole shoot'em F*%KEN attitude that seems so common today

Now than I've been shot, stabbed , hit with beer bottles , beer mugs , pool cue's, pool ball's, Had knives , guns pulled on me ,and I have yet to shoot a civilian .

By NO means trying to play/ say I'm Billy Bad Ass or knock someone else .
Just my 2cent's

Peace Out
Big E

Try to keep in mind. Some of us are...

-out of shape
-old
-not trained
-disabled
-just ****ing tired

...and not willing to put up with *******s anymore.

 

[Manan]

You can shoot only when a reasonable person would believe that their own or someone else's life is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily injury...Period. Keep it simple. If you start to move into the gray area of this rule you leave yourself open to rightful prosecution.

 

[SSGSAD]

You can shoot only when a reasonable person would believe that their own or someone else's life is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily injury...Period. Keep it simple. If you start to move into the gray area of this rule you leave yourself open to rightful prosecution.

So, I go back, to what I said, someone, threatens to kill you, and you are going to do "everything", except shoot ?????

 

[jbombelli]

You can shoot only when a reasonable person would believe that their own or someone else's life is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily injury...Period. Keep it simple. If you start to move into the gray area of this rule you leave yourself open to rightful prosecution.

Most reasonable people would likely fear for their lives, or at least serious bodily injury, if and when some lunatic with an anger problem busts out their windows while saying he's gonna kill them. Steps are already being taken to make that statement of intent come to pass.

 

[lrahm]

I may be wrong, it is not often, but it does happen .....

I thought when the word KILL, came out of someones' mouth, then all bets are off ......

LEO, Attorney ????????????

Police officer, you would be suprised what comes out of people's mouth. Mind you if someone broke out my window, I would be pissed. But the thread starter has already stated that he cut off the other driver. That adds a little (a lot) of investigation into this "what if" situation. My advice is maybe talk to an officer friend and see how tough your prosecutor is. When you say "kill", what does he have to kill you with. Do you immediately go on the offensive. Remember you are the one who has to explain why you are unloading on this guy. Is it a misdemeanor or felony battery he inflicts on you. Just because you might know your "gun rights" does not mean you understand "battery" laws. I have seen just a few in my career. Talk to an officer on the side and see what constitutes a misdemeanor vs. felony battery. Now when you do give him the exact senario that was just placed forth and don't embelish anythinhg.

 

[Exodus]

But what if the driver deserved to get his ass kicked?

 

[lrahm]

But what if the driver deserved to get his ass kicked?

Hey, if I got cut off I would be ticked off too. The thread started did NOT give enough info (period). Now everyone is ready to blast the person into kingdom come.

 

[lrahm]

What everyone needs to understand is that you have to be able to verbally state your fear before you draw. When in doubt, take a class on self defense with your weapon. Most officers get into fights several times a week. They get hit, clubbed, kicked and a lot more. They pretty well know where the line is drawn. I've had a lot of people tell me they are going to kill me ... can I shoot them or is that intimidation?