Russians conducted 'information warfare' against US during election..

[Kutnupe14]

Do you honestly believe people in trumps campaign worked with Russia to win the election?

I'm undecided. I haven't seen anything that allows me think that they did. I'm more inclined to believe that they knew that Russia was trying to help them, and avoided telling the authorities.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I'm trying to figure out how many "witting" members of the Trump campaign there were....

yep,rubes. the lot of them. Trump does not have a chance in he.... oh, wait. Scoreboard

 

[T.Lex]

I'm undecided. I haven't seen anything that allows me think that they did. I'm more inclined to believe that they knew that Russia was trying to help them, and avoided telling the authorities.

I'm pretty close to this.

Like most presidential politicians, there's a willful ignorance about alot of "help" - from PACs, SuperPACs, and volunteers. They probably suspected the Russian efforts toward destabilizing things helped Trump, and that was just fine. No need to know more about it than that.

He seems like a pretty results-oriented kind of guy.

 

[T.Lex]

yep,rubes. the lot of them. Trump does not have a chance in he.... oh, wait. Scoreboard

haha

Blind pig, ear of corn, you know the rest.

 

[indiucky]

Soooooo does it matter WHO they thought they were helping/hurting? Or is the fact that they were involved in our elections AT ALL not enough?

I got over that 30 plus years ago....Back then they openly met with the Soviets for help with elections...

But of course back then the Soviet's were our friends...Not the Evil Empire they are today......

 

[Expat]

I can accept that the Russians tried to interfere. I don't know anyone that was swayed one way or another by whatever they did. I was not going to vote for Hillary no matter what. I was not for Trump during the primary, but voted for him in the general as I likely would have done by whoever came through the primary. I have family that voted for Hillary and they never would have voted for the Republican no matter who it was.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm undecided. I haven't seen anything that allows me think that they did. I'm more inclined to believe that they knew that Russia was trying to help them, and avoided telling the authorities.

I don't even think it goes that deep. But what we do know is Obama's administration knew the Russians were interfering and did nothing for whatever reason.

 

[Cameramonkey]

So whats the difference between somebody like Soros or Gates paying for ads as a PAC to favor his favorite candidate vs the russians doing the same? Arent they both doing the same thing? Putting info out to sway voters?

And dont say that PACs, etc must put out factual ads and not lie. They all lie and put out misleading info all the time. (both sides) One common lie I have seen is lying by omission against those who favor the FairTax. "Joe Blow wants you to pay 23% more in federal taxes on everything you buy!" and they leave it at that without the rest of the info that would actually put them in a positive light with many voters? (the plan would also eliminate the IRS/income tax, you keep your entire paycheck, get a large prebate every months, etc)

 

[Slapstick]

Careful not to confuse supposition with fact... also let's not criminalize things that aren't, and shouldn't be, criminal.

Good advice and remember collusion is NOT a crime.

 

[printcraft]

So what I take from this is that the russians hacked the voting machines and changed the votes right?

 

[Slapstick]

Soooooo does it matter WHO they thought they were helping/hurting? Or is the fact that they were involved in our elections AT ALL not enough?

The US has been meddling in others election for a long time, other Countries have been meddling in ours for just as long. It's not really news, it's history.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't even think it goes that deep. But what we do know is Obama's administration knew the Russians were interfering and did nothing for whatever reason.

Actually, he spoke directly to Putin concerning this, it sparked further investigation, and he expelled Russian diplomats.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So whats the difference between somebody like Soros or Gates paying for ads as a PAC to favor his favorite candidate vs the russians doing the same? Arent they both doing the same thing? Putting info out to sway voters?

And dont say that PACs, etc must put out factual ads and not lie. They all lie and put out misleading info all the time. (both sides) One common lie I have seen is lying by omission against those who favor the FairTax. "Joe Blow wants you to pay 23% more in federal taxes on everything you buy!" and they leave it at that without the rest of the info that would actually put them in a positive light with many voters? (the plan would also eliminate the IRS/income tax, you keep your entire paycheck, get a large prebate every months, etc)

The same difference between you slapping your kid when they talk back, and your neighbor doing it. Though, there was a time when neighbors could smack other people's kids... but they tended to be very good neighbors.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Good advice and remember collusion is NOT a crime.

Collusion isn't... conspiracy is. And for the record, I've never said that the Trump administration has done either.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

United we stand, divided we fall. The collusion thing was always BS. Russia being a dick is real...funny that's what Mitt Romney said during a debate and Obama mocked him for it as being an "outdated" viewpoint.

“The defendants both organized a support rally for the President elect, and then, on the same day organized a rally against the president.”

Conclusions from the investigation:

- No American knowingly involved (in other words, NO COLLUSION)

- Did not affect the outcome of the election

- Interference was calculated to create maximum discord and division

The Russians are probably looking at all of this and laughing saying "stupid, predictable Americans." I really don't think they pick sides other than to make things more divisive - anything that was "pro-Trump" was because Hillary was predicted to win in a landslide in all the polls. Heck, Trump has been kicking Russia right in the balls in Syria ever since he was elected. And Trump approved antitank missile sales to Ukraine. Overall, I'd call this a win for Trump.

I also note that this has gone unnoticed in the media:

 

[Denny347]

Ok? Soooo what does that have to do with today? If what is alleged actually occurred, we're OK with it then? I have a STRONG suspicion that if Hillary (shudder) was elected and the Russia investigation came to a similar determination, we wouldn't be so cavalier about their actions.

I got over that 30 plus years ago....Back then they openly met with the Soviets for help with elections...

But of course back then the Soviet's were our friends...Not the Evil Empire they are today......

 

[Kutnupe14]

United we stand, divided we fall. The collusion thing was always BS. Russia being a dick is real...funny that's what Mitt Romney said during a debate and Obama mocked him for it as being an "outdated" viewpoint.

“The defendants both organized a support rally for the President elect, and then, on the same day organized a rally against the president.”

Conclusions from the investigation:

- No American knowingly involved (in other words, NO COLLUSION)

- Did not affect the outcome of the election

- Interference was calculated to create maximum discord and division

The Russians are probably looking at all of this and laughing saying "stupid, predictable Americans." I really don't think they pick sides other than to make things more divisive - anything that was "pro-Trump" was because Hillary was predicted to win in a landslide in all the polls. Heck, Trump has been kicking Russia right in the balls in Syria ever since he was elected. And Trump approved antitank missile sales to Ukraine. Overall, I'd call this a win for Trump.

I also note that this has gone unnoticed in the media:

So, just so I'm getting this straight (for future use), you think the FBI's Mueller investigation is credible? Or are you going to flip flip depending on how you beneficial (or not) the information is to Trump? I'm on record as saying I will accept the results.

 

[indiucky]

Ok? Soooo what does that have to do with today? If what is alleged actually occurred, we're OK with it then? I have a STRONG suspicion that if Hillary (shudder) was elected and the Russia investigation came to a similar determination, we wouldn't be so cavalier about their actions.

Only speaking for myself....Not collective INGO...

What it has to do with today is to put the current situation in to an historical context...I'm an (self educated amatuer) historian and look at things from a historical perspective and prism.....I would be okay with it if Hillary had won and the same things was happening with her....I would say there is nothing to see here and make the same points...I would encourage folks to go after her because of her policies...Not something as benign as this....I never complained when Obama (tried) to influence Israel's election...I never complained when so much of his campaign dollars came from overseas...It does not bother me because I am 53 years old and it's been going on my entire life...Literally Russian Agents in our Universities in the 1960's trying to stir up students against the Vietnam War...I have faith in our people to vote for who they want to vote for....Maybe I am naive to believe that but believe it I do....

Like I said, it didn't bother me then so why should it bother me now??? I think Americans are going to vote for who they vote for and are not influenced by things such as this...The fact that Reagan won 48 states in 1984 shows me that is the case....We as a Nation meddle in foreign elections all of the time...(More so during the Cold War) but even Obama's dalliance into Israeli politics and elections didn't bother me...I assume it's what politicians do and I assume we the people vote for who we are going to vote for because we want them to win...

Kut knows I am consistent in this regard....i rarely dog piled on Obama and when I did it was policy wise...Especially after I got sick and nearly passed..That's why he and I can disagree and be gentlemanly about it...We both tend to consistency....

 

[BugI02]

Actually, he spoke directly to Putin concerning this, it sparked further investigation, and he expelled Russian diplomats.

Timeline is off. He knew for years (because FBI/DoJ knew) but did nothing until late in the election cycle

Probably got his back up about the time wikileaks began releasing the wrong kind of dirt

 

[BugI02]

So, just so I'm getting this straight (for future use), you think the FBI's Mueller investigation is credible? Or are you going to flip flip depending on how you beneficial (or not) the information is to Trump? I'm on record as saying I will accept the results.

Of course you will, because the deck is stacked against a fair verdict (or any verdict) for Trump. How do you feel about the Senate and House Intelligence Committees investigations of the DoJ, FBI and politicization of the intelligence community. Care to go on record as willing to accept the results of those?