Russians conducted 'information warfare' against US during election..

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  • AmmoManAaron

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    So, just so I'm getting this straight (for future use), you think the FBI's Mueller investigation is credible? Or are you going to flip flip depending on how you beneficial (or not) the information is to Trump? I'm on record as saying I will accept the results.

    At a minimum I think Mueller is trying to save face and Rosenstein is trying to save his own bacon - distracting from his role in the Steele dossier. There is also an element of "aw shucks, this all we found" when other people are now on the trail and the evidence is leading back toward people like Hillary/Obama/Comey/Rice/Ohr/Page/Strzok/Rosenstein, plus others. I distrust both Mueller and Rosenstein and like the skilled swamp politicos that they are, they will use elements of truth to appear credible when convenient and/or necessary. The only collusion I have seen any evidence of is collusion with the Hillary campaign and Russia (via FusionGPS and corrupt elements in the FBI leadership, DOJ leadership, and portions of the IC). Money flowed from Perkins Coie (a law firm working for the Hillary campaign) to FusionGPS to fund the dossier. The dossier was given credibility by the corrupt elements in the FBI even though it was known to have been manufactured. Nellie Ohr worked for FusionGPS on the dossier and her husband Bruce Ohr was involved on the FBI end. As more and more is learned about who was actually playing dirty, they want to shut the investigations down by throwing some unreachable Russians under the bus - trying to cut their loses. The classic Alinsky tactic of "accuse your opponent of that which you yourself are doing" is blowing up in their faces in slow motion. The OIG report due in March will bring the heavy evidence to bear. Horowitz was appointed to the OIG by Obama, but his position was essentially neutered until the Trump administration took over. Horowitz has been turned loose and has been busy. I'm expecting the 1.2 million page report to be quite interesting. The Nunes FISA abuse memo is only a very small distillation of that still classified report. I support declassifying as much of the OIG report as possible.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Conclusions from the investigation:

    - No American knowingly involved (in other words, NO COLLUSION)

    - Did not affect the outcome of the election

    - Interference was calculated to create maximum discord and division

    The Russians are probably looking at all of this and laughing saying "stupid, predictable Americans." I really don't think they pick sides other than to make things more divisive - anything that was "pro-Trump" was because Hillary was predicted to win in a landslide in all the polls. Heck, Trump has been kicking Russia right in the balls in Syria ever since he was elected. And Trump approved antitank missile sales to Ukraine. Overall, I'd call this a win for Trump.

    A few things:
    The conclusions you listed above, isn't the sentiment conveyed by Rosenstein.
    Rosenstein says "There is no allegation IN THIS INDICTMENT that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity" ...that not the same "No American knowingly involved."
    Rosenstein also says "There is no allegation IN THE INDICTMENT that the charge altered the outcome of the 2016 election" ...that is not the same as "Did not affect the outcome of the election."
    The way you framed your post, was as if there was a blanket exoneration of expressed by Rosenstein. That would be incorrect. Rosenstein's statement were specific only the document presented. One cannot assume that because particular allegations were not found in this indictment, then they will be absent in future ones.

    As far as Trump kicking Russia in the balls. I don't see it that way at all. The President has been far more critical of nations we're allied with, than he has with Russia. He has failed to implement sanctions as instructed by congress, and has allowed our military to be harassed by Russian forces in both the air and the high seas... and as far as the weapons going to Ukraine, I'll believe it when I see the crates in Ukraine. When are they supposed to arrive?
     

    hoosierdoc

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    So... manafort is indicted for things he did while Mueller was FBI director and knew about

    now Russians are indicted for things, but they also were doing bribes tryin to get the uranium one deal, back when Mueller was FBI chief and he did nothing.

    Is there ANYTHING new Mueller is finding or is he cleaning up messes he didn't Get around to last time?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutors-ask-fbi-agents-info-uranium-one-deal-n831436

    [FONT=&quot]And Bill Clinton was paid $500,000 for a Moscow speech by a Russian investment bank with links to the transaction....
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]As the Russians gradually assumed control of Uranium One in three separate transactions from 2009 to 2013, The New York Times reported, Uranium One's Canadian chairman, Ian Telfer, used his family foundation to make four donations totaling $2.35 million to the Clinton Foundation. Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the foundation, the Times reported, despite a promise to publicly identify all donors. The foundation later said it made a mistake.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Others associated with Uranium One also donated to the Clinton Foundation, according to the Times.

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Uranium One became a much bigger player in the uranium market after it absorbed a company run and co-owned by Frank Giustra, a Canadian businessman and Bill Clinton associate, in February 2007.

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]UrAsia had soon closed deals for uranium mining rights in Kazakhstan. In 2006, Giustra donated $31.3 million to the Clinton Foundation.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
     
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    Route 45

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    3CmK0gk.jpg
     

    dugsagun

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    The cruz tip is kinda sad. We all are playing monday morning quarterback here tho, but it does make you wonder. Someone posted somewhere jokingly that if his name would have been nickolai , they'd have been investigating him from day one.
     

    jamil

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    I'm trying to figure out how many "witting" members of the Trump campaign there were.... :joke:

    There's the whole thing with JR and the Russian lawyer. So I think they tried to be "witting". But couldn't even get that done.

    Do you honestly believe people in trumps campaign worked with Russia to win the election?

    Eh. He's hopeful.

    I'm undecided. I haven't seen anything that allows me think that they did. I'm more inclined to believe that they knew that Russia was trying to help them, and avoided telling the authorities.

    That's another one of those things that are probably not illegal, nor should be, but should be become public knowledge when found out. And let the people decide how much they should consider it at the polls.

    Still not sorry I didn't vote for Clinton.
     

    jamil

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    Ok? Soooo what does that have to do with today? If what is alleged actually occurred, we're OK with it then? I have a STRONG suspicion that if Hillary (shudder) was elected and the Russia investigation came to a similar determination, we wouldn't be so cavalier about their actions.

    I'm not okay with it. But I'm not sorry I didn't vote Democrat.
     

    BugI02

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    The cruz tip is kinda sad. We all are playing monday morning quarterback here tho, but it does make you wonder. Someone posted somewhere jokingly that if his name would have been nickolai , they'd have been investigating him from day one.

    It also occurs to me if he had made a social media threat to shoot up a legislative government building or LEO building he would have been much more likely to get at least a visit from the authorities. Was he not making "terroristic threats"?
     

    BugI02

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    So... manafort is indicted for things he did while Mueller was FBI director and knew about

    now Russians are indicted for things, but they also were doing bribes tryin to get the uranium one deal, back when Mueller was FBI chief and he did nothing.

    Is there ANYTHING new Mueller is finding or is he cleaning up messes he didn't Get around to last time?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutors-ask-fbi-agents-info-uranium-one-deal-n831436

    The Uranium One Russians were good Russians - only your Imperial Government or a Clinton banker is able to tell the difference
     

    BugI02

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    [snip]
    As far as Trump kicking Russia in the balls. I don't see it that way at all. The President has been far more critical of nations we're allied with, than he has with Russia. He has failed to implement sanctions as instructed by congress, and has allowed our military to be harassed by Russian forces in both the air and the high seas... and as far as the weapons going to Ukraine, I'll believe it when I see the crates in Ukraine. When are they supposed to arrive?

    You mean like Israel and Britain and Poland? Oops, wrong President
     

    2A_Tom

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    I hope the commanders are levelheaded enough to avoid WW III.

    [video=youtube;YZuMe5RvxPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZuMe5RvxPQ[/video]
     

    Expat

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    I understand the Democrats will be requesting a Declaration of War against Russia in the Congress. They have said this is the same as the attack on Pearl Harbor, so we have no choice.
     

    2A_Tom

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    Should Netenyahu get his justice dept to indict the Obama administration for interfering in their election?

    in·dite
    inˈdīt/
    verbarchaic

    verb: indite; 3rd person present: indites; past tense: indited; past participle: indited; gerund or present participle: inditing

    • write; compose.
      "he indites the wondrous tale of Our Lord"

      in·dict
      inˈdīt/
      verbNorth American

      verb: indict; 3rd person present: indicts; past tense: indicted; past participle: indicted; gerund or present participle: indicting
      formally accuse of or charge with a serious crime.
      "his former manager was indicted for fraud"
      synonyms:charge with, accuse of, arraign for, take to court for, put on trial for, bring to trial for, prosecute for; cite for, impeach for
      "the teenager was indicted for second-degree robbery"







     
    Last edited:

    Kutnupe14

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    Should Netenyahu get his justice dept to indict the Obama administration for interfering in their election?

    in·dite
    inˈdīt/
    verbarchaic

    verb: indite; 3rd person present: indites; past tense: indited; past participle: indited; gerund or present participle: inditing

    • write; compose.
      "he indites the wondrous tale of Our Lord"

      in·dict
      inˈdīt/
      verbNorth American

      verb: indict; 3rd person present: indicts; past tense: indicted; past participle: indicted; gerund or present participle: indicting
      formally accuse of or charge with a serious crime.
      "his former manager was indicted for fraud"
      synonyms:charge with, accuse of, arraign for, take to court for, put on trial for, bring to trial for, prosecute for; cite for, impeach for
      "the teenager was indicted for second-degree robbery"



    He has his own problems to worry about.
     
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