Safety, decocker or nothing

[IndyTom]

This is partially correct -



But I'm wondering if he never actually lowered the hammer with the decocker while at the range, because it is pretty obvious what it does when used on a fully cocked pistol.

eta: Ah, there it is -

1. I'm sure you would have been quite entertained this am with my Ruger P89 to see me trying to figure out what the decocker was doing when I engaged it in D/A mode.

 

[gmcttr]

...However, wanted to point out that your Shield should have the same pull every time, like the Glock. The Shield may have a bit more trigger take up than the Glock, but nonetheless, it should be the same every time and there should be no difference in a "1st pull".

Exactly I saw that too. Unless hes meaning learning the reset...

If, after the first shot, you only (as one normally would) release the trigger to the reset point, then the second pull will be shorter.

 

[croy]

Everyone has done a good job explaining everything, but maybe I've missed it in your previous posts. Are you carrying hollow points in your carry gun?

 

[doddg]

This is partially correct - But I'm wondering if he never actually lowered the hammer with the decocker while at the range, because it is pretty obvious what it does when used on a fully cocked pistol.

1. No, I haven't.
2. I never messed with a decocker on any of my guns (only on the Ruger P89 and CZ 75 as far as I remember), since I was not aware of what it did or what it was for since I never had a decocker on a gun until recently, therefore, I now just asking asking questions.

 

[gregkl]

1. No, I haven't.
2. I never messed with a decocker on any of my guns (only on the Ruger P89 and CZ 75 as far as I remember), since I was not aware of what it did or what it was for since I never had a decocker on a gun until recently, therefore, I now just asking asking questions.

Please don't take this as an attack on you but for any firearm you own, you should be intimately familiar with it's manual of arms. Before you send the first round down range, you should have at least field stripped it, cleaned and lubed it (not just for those specific actions but doing so allows you to look over all the components very closely) and learned what every control does and how they interact with one another.

You can sit in your easy chair without any live ammo anywhere near you and pull, push, tap, rack, strip until you can do it blindfolded. Dry fire it 100 times or more. Practice reloads, mag drops, safety on/off (is there is one), etc. Once you have a full and complete understanding how that firearm functions, then take it to the range.

 

[Expat]

If you are going to carry one of the DA/SA pistols (has the decocker), you should use the decocker while at the range so you can practice that long double action pull that will always be your first pull on a loaded pistol, to train yourself on what that will feel like. Because that is how you are going to carry it and use for self defense. The subsequent shots will be SA and those are easy. So I will usually fire 2-3 rounds then decock and fire 2-3 rounds when I am practicing.

 

[Trigger Time]

1. No, I haven't.
2. I never messed with a decocker on any of my guns (only on the Ruger P89 and CZ 75 as far as I remember), since I was not aware of what it did or what it was for since I never had a decocker on a gun until recently, therefore, I now just asking asking questions.

I thought you had mentioned the other day firing some in double action? Anyways it wouldnt be the first time my reading comprehension is off.

 

[gregkl]

If you are going to carry one of the DA/SA pistols (has the decocker), you should use the decocker while at the range so you can practice that long double action pull that will always be your first pull on a loaded pistol, to train yourself on what that will feel like. Because that is how you are going to carry it and use for self defense. The subsequent shots will be SA and those are easy. So I will usually fire 2-3 rounds then decock and fire 2-3 rounds when I am practicing.

This reminds me of when a guy at the practice range was asked why he only loaded 5 rounds at a time in his pistol instead of filling to max capacity. He said that way he can practice reloads!

 

[doddg]

Some comments I found online discussing the matter:

Some people however, feel more comfortable with a DA/SA knowing that an accidental discharge is much less likely.

The modern "safe action" gun designs kind of blur the S/A-D/A description.
The M&P releases the striker when the trigger is pulled so I would consider it a S/A with a long pull.
Some of the striker-fired guns do actually pull the striker further to the rear before release so in effect they would be a DAO I guess.
To me the striker-fired guns just don't clearly fall into either class.

For all practical purposes the M&P's are single action. But S&W calls them double action.

The two guns, a Glock 19 and Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, both of these guns are double action only.
This means there's no exposed hammer and that the trigger pull is the same every single time you pull the trigger.

The critical thing to remember with double/single action guns is that every time you’re done firing and are getting ready to put the gun back in the holster, you need to use the decocking lever.
This decocker lowers the hammer back down into double action mode. In other words, for safety purposes, you don’t want to have the gun in your holster in single action mode.

 

[nipprdog]

The M&P releases the striker when the trigger is pulled so I would consider it a S/A with a long pull.
Some of the striker-fired guns do actually pull the striker further to the rear before release so in effect they would be a DAO I guess.
To me the striker-fired guns just don't clearly fall into either class.

For all practical purposes the M&P's are single action. But S&W calls them double action.

The two guns, a Glock 19 and Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, both of these guns are double action only.
This means there's no exposed hammer and that the trigger pull is the same every single time you pull the trigger.

 

[Expat]

Some comments I found online discussing the matter:

Some people however, feel more comfortable with a DA/SA knowing that an accidental discharge is much less likely.

The modern "safe action" gun designs kind of blur the S/A-D/A description.
The M&P releases the striker when the trigger is pulled so I would consider it a S/A with a long pull.
Some of the striker-fired guns do actually pull the striker further to the rear before release so in effect they would be a DAO I guess.
To me the striker-fired guns just don't clearly fall into either class.

For all practical purposes the M&P's are single action. But S&W calls them double action.

The two guns, a Glock 19 and Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, both of these guns are double action only.
This means there's no exposed hammer and that the trigger pull is the same every single time you pull the trigger.

The critical thing to remember with double/single action guns is that every time you’re done firing and are getting ready to put the gun back in the holster, you need to use the decocking lever.
This decocker lowers the hammer back down into double action mode. In other words, for safety purposes, you don’t want to have the gun in your holster in single action mode.

Other people can explain the mechanics of striker fired guns, I have read different explanations over the years and frankly have forgotten most of it as it doesn't matter to me all that much. But as I understand it, none of them are true DAO or SAO.
Like you said, the critical thing on a DA/SA is to decock if you are going to be carrying it loaded. Then you have the long double action pull for your first shot. I would never carry a gun with the hammer back that did not have a safety to engage. I have never owned a DA/SA that has a safety but some people above referred to them.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Technically any partially cocked striker is DAO and any fully cocked striker is SAO. That said, classifying striker fired guns as DAO or SAO is largely for marketing purposes and doesn't matter in the slightest at the end user level.

 

[IndyTom]

Other people can explain the mechanics of striker fired guns, I have read different explanations over the years and frankly have forgotten most of it as it doesn't matter to me all that much. But as I understand it, none of them are true DAO or SAO.
Like you said, the critical thing on a DA/SA is to decock if you are going to be carrying it loaded. Then you have the long double action pull for your first shot. I would never carry a gun with the hammer back that did not have a safety to engage. I have never owned a DA/SA that has a safety but some people above referred to them.

My SP-01 and 92A1 both have a safety and are the only 9mm guns that I have that do. I'm also not carrying either of them.

 

[mcapo]

I am going to put myself up for criticism (again ), but I don't "get it."

I give you a lot of respect for putting yourself in the "line of fire" by openly asking questions that the more experienced may find too obvious to require an open inquiry.

Fact is the world has a lot of new and/or inexperience shooters and for each criticism or lurking eye roll you receive, I'll bet an exponential amount of people learn something.

It looks like you gotten all the right answers. Safety is just that - prevents the gun from firing. Decocker is just that - returns the gun from a fully cocked position.

 

[doddg]

Everyone has explained the DA/SA decocker stuff very well and looks like you have that well covered now.

1. Yes, I get it now. I still think having a safety is my preferenc, but I will listen to the voice of the one who said in an emergency situation: it could go very wrong.

However, wanted to point out that your Shield should have the same pull every time, like the Glock. The Shield may have a bit more trigger take up than the Glock, but nonetheless, it should be the same every time and there should be no difference in a "1st pull".

2. Yes, I think I misspoke about the Shield 9mm. Being a stiker-fired, your point is well-taken.

Hurry and get that training we talked about sooner than later.

3. I've taken one basic handgun class (not helpful in the context of the discussion here today, and I have another handgun carry class (in about 2 more weeks) that will be inline with what I was looking for, imo.

You need to be comfortable with your carry gun and you need to always carry with a round in the chamber. Use a proper holster, keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire,

3. I have never carried a gun that I did not do all that you mentioned, except if I did not have D/A first pull or a safety, I would not have one in the chamber, but I've been told I should.

make sure there is no mag and an empty chamber before disassembly and cleaning, and you are not going to have an accidental or negligent discharge.

5. Always done that.
6. Yesterday when I said what I did about the Glock 26 of not being able to get the slide off b/c the mag was still in is b/c I had already taken out the empty .22LR mag (from conversion kit), and put in a 9mm empty mag, all of which came after checking the chamber every step of the way, but I forgot to take out the empty 9mm mag. Point being, I just put in an empty mag to have it match the slide I was going to put in, and I did check and recheck.
7. I'm not kidding when I say I'm a safety nut, which is why I am reticent to have one in the chamber w/o a safety, as I'm being advised.

Everything you addressed above even the misunderstandings of how each type of your guns work is a training and practice issue, easily corrected. You arent dumb. You just need to get trained on your specific firearms and also fundamentals of shooting and safety and then putting them all into practice on the range.

8. I am eager to learn anything that enhances the safety level of something I hold in my hand that goes "bang."

I'm not an instructor so don't take my word usage too literally. I'm not hip on all the cool words.
Also I highly recommend that you pic what type of gun you want to learn first and carry and then stick with it until you are comfortable manipulating it and cleaning and shooting it.

9. I have the Shield 9 for that, but have toyed with the idea of using the Glock 26: there is where my decision will be, but, I will probably go with the smaller Shield 9.

So if you want a striker fired gun stay with that for now. If you want a DA/SA gun stick with that.

10. I did not realize that my choice of gun to use depended on striker-fired or DA/SA. I will go with what I have, that being the Shield 9mm.

You're gonna make a mistake possibly thats gonna make a bullet hole in something you dont want it in or maybe you.

11. If I thought that was the case ("you're gonna make a mistake....," b/c of my carelessness, I would sell all my guns, so as not to shoot myself or anyone near.
12. I choose to practice safety. Bottom line, I treat every gun my hand touches like it was "live." Just the other day, when I was showing my wife a gun (don't remember why), as I approached her with my empty magazine in the gun and nothing in the chamber (I was checking it out in the bedroom), while the gun was aimed at the ground I pulled back the slide to show her it was empty before I proceeded to the task at hand. The way they handle guns at a gun shop is the way I also handle them at home in the privacy of my room: if I pick up a gun, I check the chamber even though I "know" I put it into the safe empty.

Exactly I saw that too. Unless hes meaning learning the reset.
And the other trigger you dont want is a dead trigger in a gun fight or a click and no bang and you will get those for sure by carrying no round in the chamber

13. I didn't realize nearly everyone choose to have one in the chamber. I have seen many in vids, pull their gun, pull the slide back and aim, all in one motion: which I assumed was for safety reasons.
14. According to the feedback I'm getting here, that is not a logical option, like using a safety is not a logical option.
15. But, what confuses me is that all the 1911 gun owners that carry, have a safety and train themselves to use it and I have not read of that being challenged.

Maybe he's talking about a CZ (e.g. P-07) where you can change it from having a safety or a decocker?

16. My CZ 75 B Omega Convertible has a choice of either b/c the parts of both are there (Ggreen had the decocker installed but the safety is there if I want to use it but I've been told not to use a safety). The "Convertible" refers to being able to convert to either approach if I remember my readings correctly.

But I'm wondering if he never actually lowered the hammer with the decocker while at the range, because it is pretty obvious what it does when used on a fully cocked pistol.

17. No, I haven't, but I will next time.

Everyone has done a good job explaining everything, but maybe I've missed it in your previous posts. Are you carrying hollow points in your carry gun?

18. Yes, I have hollow points for my CC and my home protection guns: Ruger P89 and Ruger Security Six.

If you are going to carry one of the DA/SA pistols (has the decocker), you should use the decocker while at the range so you can practice that long double action pull that will always be your first pull on a loaded pistol, to train yourself on what that will feel like. Because that is how you are going to carry it and use for self defense. The subsequent shots will be SA and those are easy. So I will usually fire 2-3 rounds then decock and fire 2-3 rounds when I am practicing.

19. Will do.

I thought you had mentioned the other day firing some in double action? Anyways it wouldnt be the first time my reading comprehension is off.

20. Yes, when firing my CZ and Ruger P89 the first shot was in DA just like the Beretta 92 that I liked.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I give you a lot of respect for putting yourself in the "line of fire" by openly asking questions that the more experienced my find too obvious to require an open inquiry.

This is why I tend to recommend revolvers for inexperienced and untrained folks who are likely to remain that way. Simplicity of operation and manual of arms. No malfunction drills, if you can't figure out the only button on the thing you'll never be able to load it, and it doesn't "hide" a cartridge so that if you screw up clearing it your left with a loaded gun.

 

[Areoflyer09]

Just out of curiosity, #17 above says you haven’t used the decocker to lower the hammer so are you lowering the hammer by hand to be able to use the double action?

 

[mcapo]

This is why I tend to recommend revolvers for inexperienced and untrained folks who are likely to remain that way. Simplicity of operation and manual of arms. No malfunction drills, if you can't figure out the only button on the thing you'll never be able to load it, and it doesn't "hide" a cartridge so that if you screw up clearing it your left with a loaded gun.

Recognizing the difference between "what is" and "what should be".

 

[deeno3432]

Im not a big striker type gun fan. I like a gun with an external hammer and I like having a decocker such as is on my sig 2022. It is a bit odd since the hammer bounds baskward then rest after hitting the firing pin. I think the first shot on my sig is barely noticably as in a gun like a beretta 92 where the DA and SA is very noticable. Choose what you like and carry and train.

 

[doddg]

I give you a lot of respect for putting yourself in the "line of fire" by openly asking questions that the more experienced may find too obvious to require an open inquiry.

1. To me that is what the forum is for, and I realize what it makes me look like at times. I was on a large national, even international sports car site for 8 yrs. and had a 1000 questions and received criticism at times, but others told me how grateful they were that I asked those "newbie" questions, and the "old heads" admitted they enjoyed my enthusiasm and reminded them of how they felt a decade ago with the car. And, I was the one giving the advise to the newbs as the years went by. People would seek me out about everything from which tires to which gear shift knob b/c they knew I had researched, asked questions and knew what the more moderate cost approach was to buying accessories or even basic things. If you think putting 10k into a gun is something, guys would put $10s of thousands of dollars into their rides. While all the while I was driving my car through the winters (with snows on) and that really brought criticism, ha!

Fact is the world has a lot of new and/or inexperience shooters and for each criticism or lurking eye roll you receive, I'll bet an exponential amount of people learn something.

2. I believe that.

It looks like you gotten all the right answers. Safety is just that - prevents the gun from firing. Decocker is just that - returns the gun from a fully cocked position.

3. Safety rules with me.
4. I could have just googled what I was asking, and finally did to see if what I was being told was consistent.
5. I got very good input here and would rather here it from those here than from the 'net, even though this is the 'net also, ha!