Saudi officials kill journalist, what's the response going to be?

[Kutnupe14]

It's good Khashoggi is gone. The MSM has used this up. The enemies of Trump and America must be called for their lies every single time.

https://securitystudies.org/jamal-khashoggi-and-qatar-in-the-echo-chamber/

It seems you are dangerously close to condoning Khashoggi's murder. I think this murder, as well as subsequent events, are simply terrible, and should open eyes to the type of people we're dealing with.

 

[Dead Duck]

It seems you are dangerously close to condoning Khashoggi's murder. I think this murder, as well as subsequent events, are simply terrible, and should open eyes to the type of people we're dealing with.

I heard it was just an accident at a hibachi restaurant.

 

[AtTheMurph]

It seems you are dangerously close to condoning Khashoggi's murder. I think this murder, as well as subsequent events, are simply terrible, and should open eyes to the type of people we're dealing with.

Countries kill spies all the time and have for millennia. Why should the killing of Khashoggi be viewed any differently that the murder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Executed_spies

 

[KLB]

Countries kill spies all the time and have for millennia. Why should the killing of Khashoggi be viewed any differently that the murder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Executed_spies

First, saying bad things about a country is not spying on them.

Second, generally spies that are executed get caught and killed in the country they are spying on. This was in another country.

 

[Alamo]

Middle eastern regimes have happily cut down their enemies for centuries, including and up through the present. Iran, for example, has had no problem whatsoever killing and imprisoning politically inconvenient people both at home and abroad, be they activists, journalists, "journalists", US Marines, whatever. This did not prevent the most recent previous president from actively supporting the Iranians' efforts to dominate the Middle East with cash and trade deals (and without any apparent impact to their capability to produce nuclear weapons). The vapors over Khashoggi's demise is just a stick to beat Trump with.

 

[KLB]

Middle eastern regimes have happily cut down their enemies for centuries, including and up through the present. Iran, for example, has had no problem whatsoever killing and imprisoning politically inconvenient people both at home and abroad, be they activists, journalists, "journalists", US Marines, whatever. This did not prevent the most recent previous president from actively supporting the Iranians' efforts to dominate the Middle East with cash and trade deals (and without any apparent impact to their capability to produce nuclear weapons). The vapors over Khashoggi's demise is just a stick to beat Trump with.

This is true of much of the world, not just the Middle East.

I see it as more people no longer giving the Saudi's a pass like they have been given for so long.

Then again, people often assume that any ally of ours has to be the good guys. Obviously that is and has been far from the truth.

 

[KG1]

Maybe the Saudis will re-evaluate their unseemly practices now that they’ve drawn closer scrutiny upon themselves. Maybe not.

Didn’t seem to do much for Putin and his poison posse.

 

[KLB]

Maybe the Saudis will re-evaluate their unseemly practices now that they’ve drawn closer scrutiny upon themselves. Maybe not.

Didn’t seem to do much for Putin and his poison posse.

 

[BugI02]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/jamal-khashoggis-murder-still-mystery/579079/
Jamal Khashoggi's Murder Remains a Mystery
The conventional account leaves major questions unanswered.

The Saudis have ceased offering new versions of their own account of these events. But The Washington Post’s reporting raises many macabre questions:

• Why kill him in the consulate—the one place in Istanbul where Saudi culpability would be undeniable?
• Why kill him with sedatives?
• Why deploy a team of more than a dozen easily recognized Saudi operatives?
• Why bring in a Jamal Khashoggi look-alike?
• Why was Saudi Arabia so ill-prepared for Khashoggi’s death?

Both scenarios—murder and botched rendition—end the same way, with Khashoggi dead. (Neither should inspire any pity for the Saudis. If you kill someone in your consulate, even by accident, you own the consequences.) One advantage to the “botched rendition” scenario is that it would answer all the questions above. You can’t render someone from a café; you need a setting over which you have total control. Sedatives are an odd way to kill someone, but they are the only way to bring him home alive against his will. You need a large team, perhaps including a jet configured for a medical flight, to render someone.

That the Khashoggi murder might have been a botched rendition remains an unpopular opinion, and contrary to the growing perception of the crown prince as brash and incapable of considering even the fairly obvious concerns outlined above. It is possible that the assassination of Khashoggi proceeded exactly as the conventional account has it. But I have not heard any of those who believe the operation went as intended explain these lingering mysteries. Keep asking these questions. Any story about the killing that doesn’t answer them is incomplete.

 

[BugI02]

View attachment 73289

 

[Libertarian01]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/jamal-khashoggis-murder-still-mystery/579079/
Jamal Khashoggi's Murder Remains a Mystery
The conventional account leaves major questions unanswered.


The Saudis have ceased offering new versions of their own account of these events. But The Washington PostÂ’s reporting raises many macabre questions:

• Why kill him in the consulate—the one place in Istanbul where Saudi culpability would be undeniable?
• Why kill him with sedatives?
• Why deploy a team of more than a dozen easily recognized Saudi operatives?
• Why bring in a Jamal Khashoggi look-alike?
• Why was Saudi Arabia so ill-prepared for KhashoggiÂ’s death?

Not arguing with you, but these questions from the Atlantic are silly and irrelevant.

Why kill him in the consulate? Gee whiz, Wally, how 'bout cuz it is legally sovereign Saudi soil and no one can charge anyone with a crime there EXCEPT the Saudi's? How about because they could control the environment for any amount of time they needed?

Why kill him with sedatives? Uh, why not? Plan B? Who cares? Why shoot someone with a .308 instead of a .303?

Why deploy a team of more than a dozen easily recognized Saudi operatives? Golly, how about 'cause they're trustworthy? Maybe command and control knew they could get the job done? Maybe because overwhelming force is a good guarantee of success?

Why bring a lookalike? Again, why not? Plan B, or Plan C. How about if yer gonna whackadude and if you might need a lookalike it is better to have one and not need him than to need him and not have him?

Why so ill-prepared? Who says they were ill-prepared? Were the Soviets ill-prepared for the world response to invading Afghanistan? Was the US ill-prepared for pulling out of the Paris climate accord? Maybe they know people want their oil more than their journalists?
-----
My problem with the ridiculousness of questions like these is that they are, well, ridiculous. They ask why presuming a perfect James Bond style assassin coming in and just disappearing him. Why didn't we find Saddam in two weeks? Why didn't the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal kill him? Why did they use Novichok instead of a more generic poison, as if everyone thinks clearly and is perfect in their planning and execution of actions?

Why not just use phasers set to kill so there is no body to dispose of?

Regards and Happy New Year,

Doug

 

[BugI02]

Those are all very good answers, I hadn't thought of the sovereign soil aspect as far as charging anyone - although I don't believe just anyone gets diplomatic immunity just because they are on what is regarded as technically Saudi soil

I took the article to be arguing that the failed rendition scenario makes much more sense given the facts on the ground. The article even states that the author had interviewed Khashoggi in Istanbul and he traveled without security and during the interview sat with his back to an open front to the cafe´. I find his point telling that had they wanted him dead, it would have been the easiest thing in the world - including the ability to muddy the trail due to the presence of so many shady groups in Istanbul

I posted it because it is to the point that the narrative painting MBS as the cold-blooded killer who ordered a hit is just too simplistic to fit the facts. A point I happen to agree with

 

[NKBJ]

Cannot help but suspect that an agency gaining knowledge of the op owing to inadequate security consciousness on the part of an acquaintance of Mo bone Sawman established and provided to the Turks the needed surveillance links.

 

[BugI02]

Also from the article I linked:

According to multiple anonymous reports, the assassination began with a threat. One of the assassins “informed Khashoggi that he was going back to Saudi Arabia,” write Mekhennet and Miller. Even if the speaker implied “… in multiple Samsonite suitcases,” this is an odd way to begin an assassination, but a sensible way to tell your victim that he can come home the easy way or the hard way.

I believe that's from the audio provided by the Turks

 

[Libertarian01]

Those are all very good answers, I hadn't thought of the sovereign soil aspect as far as charging anyone - although I don't believe just anyone gets diplomatic immunity just because they are on what is regarded as technically Saudi soil

I took the article to be arguing that the failed rendition scenario makes much more sense given the facts on the ground. The article even states that the author had interviewed Khashoggi in Istanbul and he traveled without security and during the interview sat with his back to an open front to the cafe´. I find his point telling that had they wanted him dead, it would have been the easiest thing in the world - including the ability to muddy the trail due to the presence of so many shady groups in Istanbul

I posted it because it is to the point that the narrative painting MBS as the cold-blooded killer who ordered a hit is just too simplistic to fit the facts. A point I happen to agree with

Consider that there is no need for diplomatic immunity when you have the Crown Prince telling you what to do and that you won't be charged. It isn't like Saudi Arabia has this checks and balance thingy. There is no independent prosecutor. Therefore, diplomatic immunity does not apply.

It's a lot like if a LE goes undercover, they get a pass from prosecution for minor things they may need to do to infiltrate an organization. Probably not a felony, but perhaps? No diplomatic immunity, just an understanding from, in our case, an independent prosecutor. In the Saudi case the Crown Prince says ya'll don't need to worry, then ya'll don't need to worry - just get the job done.

It wasn't just this article alone, but I've seen collaterally some other minor stories on the net asking similar questions, especially about doing it in the consulate. The rest are just silly. Why use your own people? Come on, really? Do I want to use my own people whom I know, trust, and know where their families live, or use a Serbian hit squad who may or may not get the job done? Who may want more money? Etc.

I also don't believe this was just about killing Khashoggi. It was like in "Unforgiven" where Little Bill kicks the hell out of English Bob. "I guess you think I'm kickin' you Bob. It ain't so. What I'm doin' is talkin', ya hear? I'm talkin' to all those villains down there in Kansas, and I'm talking to all those villains in Missouri..." Here: [video=youtube;rsyw13yrRoo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsyw13yrRoo&has_verified=1[/video] (may need to sign in.)

This was the crown prince sending a message to all of the malcontents inside his own country who are opposed to the reforms he is making. This is telling those folks, "You better just shut up and get along with the program. Because if I can do what I did to a world renowned journalist outside of Saudi Arabia who p****s me off, imagine what I can do to you HERE, INSIDE my own country. Now, get in line and stay in line - or else!"

It is a cheap price, politically speaking. He kills one journalist outside his country and kowtows 10,000 Imams and old schoolers inside his country that don't like his reforms. It was a calculated decision with very easy math.

Regards and Happy New Year,

Doug

 

[Hohn]

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/273097/american-press-middle-east

On-point article.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Saudi Arabia has given the four children of slain journalist Jamal Khashoggi's children "million-dollar houses" and "monthly five-figure payments" as compensation for the killing of their father

 

[churchmouse]

Saudi Arabia has given the four children of slain journalist Jamal Khashoggi's children "million-dollar houses" and "monthly five-figure payments" as compensation for the killing of their father

So an open admitting of guilt.

 

[Birds Away]

Isn't the King of Saudi Arabia is an absolute ruler? Do we all fully understand what that means? This event happened on sovereign Saudi soil. That's not a technicality, it applies to every embassy everywhere.

 

[CampingJosh]

Isn't the King of Saudi Arabia is an absolute ruler? Do we all fully understand what that means? This event happened on sovereign Saudi soil. That's not a technicality, it applies to every embassy everywhere.

Legal doesn't mean that we have to be OK with it or ignore it.