School Safety thoughts

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  • Cameramonkey

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    May 12, 2013
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    I'm all for arming and conceal carry BUT a solution that would be bipartisan would be choked down easier.

    I think that all rooms should have an emergency / fire exit that is locked (no exterior handle). YES this will cost tons of money, but so will the increased teacher pay, security measures (only aimed at security) and other non-fully functional things.

    So what does this do...

    1)During an actual fire escape theres more than 1 exit, (rather than funneling everyone thorugh a singular hall..)

    2)in an active shooter situation it mitigates a large percentage of the "fish in a barrel"

    Nice thought, but physically impossible when you look at how schools are constructed. How do the kids on the 2nd and up floors escape? Typical school design is a central hall with exterior walls opposite the hallway door. On floors 2 and up, there is nowhere to go out that wall without building elaborate fire escapes that make the building look ugly. There just isnt enough of a threat to justify that level of retrofit. I would think arming ALL teachers would be easier than that engineering nightmare. (redesigning and rebuilding ALL schools with a 2nd floor from the ground up)


    Well, how about an "out of the box" solution: put police stations at schools.

    School-based police stations would only be for staffing, no processing of arrestees (those would go to a central location and/or the jail). A 24/7 police presence on school property is likely to be a pretty strong deterrent (how many police stations do you hear about being attacked?). It might also improve police-community relations as kids, parents teachers and school administrators would all be exposed to the police on a daily basis.

    This would be expensive as it would involve construction so might be more of a long-term rather than short-term solution.

    Trouble is, there are more school buildings than roll call stations in most places. For instance Brownsburg is up to how many school buildings? When I was there in 92 it was 6+. Is it up to 10 now? 10+ substations for a town that size?

    Along those lines somebody suggested free lunches to police in the cafeterias. And not necessarily just what the kids are fed. The idea is a constant yet random flow of officers as they go on break making it not such a soft target.

    And eliminating the GFZ act goes a long way to solve the problem as well. On MANY fronts. Like the teacher that accidentally left his hunting rifle visible in his car. without that law, it could have been a non-issue.
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Two images keep playing in my head. The first is an armored car with two armed guards protecting 3 bags of money. The second is a large glass door with a Gun Free Zone sticker protecting 400 elementary students. I retired from teaching last year and could probably still lead my classes blindfolded down 3 flights of stairs and get them outside in case of a fire. We did 1 fire drill/month. I had 2 fire extinguishers in my chem lab. All hallways and lecture areas had smoke detectors and sprinkler systems. Labs did not have smoke detectors, but did have sprinklers. All great stuff, but can someone tell me the last time anyone was killed in a school fire? We need to harden our schools against active killers. It will cost but how much is it worth?

    You are on track with Dave Grossman on this subject.
     

    gopher

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    Trouble is, there are more school buildings than roll call stations in most places. For instance Brownsburg is up to how many school buildings? When I was there in 92 it was 6+. Is it up to 10 now? 10+ substations for a town that size?
    True, but it could be (and actually has been) done at some schools. The problem I was trying (at least in part) to address is that all the "solutions" being talked about are the same ones that have been talked about for years. One side's "solution" is anathema to the other and nothing actually gets done.Having police stationed at schools is a proposal I don't hear talked about often (if at all) and is one that would likely be palatable to both sides.
     

    LCSOSgt11

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    I would agree with most of these points, and add some others.

    1. Contrary to some opinions, schools are not "hard" targets. There are commercial products to reinforce typical glass (truarmor.com) to resist damage and/or gunfire.
    2. Utilizing devices in the school such as the "Barracuda" intrusion devices (bilco.com) to prevent entry into classrooms.
    3. Prevention of unauthorized entry into a school. In the most recent tragedy in Florida, I have yet to learn how the murderer got into the school initially. No one seems to know, or more likely, wants to divulge that information.
     

    Ark

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    I agree with the conclusion, but I honestly don't see the conversation ever progressing beyond "You want MORE guns in schools? Guns in schools are the PROBLEM! You crazy gun humper!"

    Speak up and you're probably going to start catching other staff members trying to peek in your desk/briefcase/etc when they think you aren't looking.
     

    2A_Tom

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    [video=youtube;AK4_ogsh0Po]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4_ogsh0Po[/video]
     

    Coach

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    Schools are safe so let's just ignore the number one threat to life and limb of those in the schools. What is wrong with people?
     

    rhino

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    [video=youtube;AK4_ogsh0Po]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4_ogsh0Po[/video]

    1. The people who run the New Life school are awesome.
    2. Regardless of the efficacy of the techniques they are teaching, encouraging a "never quit" mindset in those kids is beyond awesome and will serve them well throughout their lives.
    3. The American Federation of Teachers union representative is an idiot and apparently doesn't understand the difference between vigilanteism and self-defense. She is also clearly unwilling or afraid to take responsibility for her own safety, so she would deny others the ability to do so.
    4. William Bratton is a condescending, dismissive *******.
    5. It's telling that the host of the video labels the actions and policies of the school as emotional response, whereas it is actually the opposite. It's logical and practical.
     

    2A_Tom

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    Great story except.
    • Principal, OBC.
    • Principal, Fanned herself.
    • I assume the camera behind the firing line was unmanned.
     

    K_W

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    I was just inside Carmel Middle School for the first time in 20 years... you have to enter through a front door into a small area with a reinforced buzz-in door next to a manned Police kiosk with a one way mirror looking out at you as you enter. Carmel High school is similar. Nice setup for stranger danger, but doesn't stop a student threat.
     

    G192127

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    My wife retired from teaching
    10 yrs ago, after 33 yrs.
    Noticing a shift in students behavior, she discreetly (concealed carried) pepper spray for her last 5 or so years.
    Why not start there, or with stun guns?
     

    rhino

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    My wife retired from teaching
    10 yrs ago, after 33 yrs.
    Noticing a shift in students behavior, she discreetly (concealed carried) pepper spray for her last 5 or so years.
    Why not start there, or with stun guns?

    Pepper spray is for a completely different set of applications than what we're discussing here. It's a deterrent for someone who is not that committed to hurting you, not something that will stop an active shooter.

    "Stun guns" are not tasers and they simply don't work. All they do is cause some localized pain that is more of a hard pinch than anything else. They're fun to use on your friends or as a training tool to induce a little stress, but they are useless in a genuine self-defense situation.
     

    chezuki

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    "Stun guns" are not tasers and they simply don't work. All they do is cause some localized pain that is more of a hard pinch than anything else. They're fun to use on your friends or as a training tool to induce a little stress, but they are useless in a genuine self-defense situation.

    :bs:

    I’ve seen people drop to the ground unconscious immediately after being hit with a stun gun. Don’t you watch TV?

    Look, they’re even great for women!

    Stun Guns for Self Defense
     
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