School Safety thoughts

[The Millenial Gunner]

I like this. I think phrasing could be important here. We're not "arming teachers", we're "allowing qualified teachers to arm themselves if they so desire". Personally, I would like to see us allow our teachers to do more than just carry a pistol under their shirt. This may be adequate for the average citizen who is simply going about their life, but for teachers, who spend a large majority of their time in the target-rich environments that are schools, and who are arming themselves primarily for the purpose of defending themselves and others from mass shooters, I would honestly like to see teachers be able to keep a battle rifle and some hard body armor locked in one of their cabinets if they choose to take their preparedness to that level. This would be way too controversial to be allowed, at least in the near future, but it's a nice thought.

My only real issue with arming teachers is liability concerns. People carry guns to deal with disparity of force. A 17 year old linebacker can beat the snot out of a 40-year old English teacher, and they sometimes do, especially in inner city schools. What happens when a teacher is attacked by a student and decides not to be a victim anymore? What happens if a teacher feels the need to shoot a student in self-defense? What happens then?

I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't think I want to. Like I said, I'm not necessarily against the idea of arming teachers. Just something to think about.

 

[GIJEW]

I like this. I think phrasing could be important here. We're not "arming teachers", we're "allowing qualified teachers to arm themselves if they so desire". Personally, I would like to see us allow our teachers to do more than just carry a pistol under their shirt. This may be adequate for the average citizen who is simply going about their life, but for teachers, who spend a large majority of their time in the target-rich environments that are schools, and who are arming themselves primarily for the purpose of defending themselves and others from mass shooters, I would honestly like to see teachers be able to keep a battle rifle and some hard body armor locked in one of their cabinets if they choose to take their preparedness to that level. This would be way too controversial to be allowed, at least in the near future, but it's a nice thought.

My only real issue with arming teachers is liability concerns. People carry guns to deal with disparity of force. A 17 year old linebacker can beat the snot out of a 40-year old English teacher, and they sometimes do, especially in inner city schools. What happens when a teacher is attacked by a student and decides not to be a victim anymore? What happens if a teacher feels the need to shoot a student in self-defense? What happens then?

I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't think I want to. Like I said, I'm not necessarily against the idea of arming teachers. Just something to think about.

Since a school resource officer (or 3) isn't capable of securing a whole school, to effectively harden the school's perimeter, those teachers who chose to be armed would need to be part of security detail during student arrival and dismissal. What good is an unmanned metal detector? Likewise, there's a need to watch the grounds and parking lot. Coordination/communication is almost as important as weaponry.

Good point about disparity of force. Some less-than-lethal device would need to be part of their gear including H-H combatives being part of the training. In the inner city (and schools with a lot of students bussed in) that might be a good idea for all teachers anyway

 

[rhino]

Well I'm sorry, I used "pepper spray" and "stun gun"as generic terms for similar items.
The "pepper spray "that I was issued when I was an officer would stop you blind in your tracks, unless you were so morbidly obese it couldn't cut through your rolls of fat. Same goes for "stun guns" and tasers. We had a "billy club" that was electrically charged and I swear that thing could drop a bull- again- unless you were so morbidly obese it couldn't cut through your fat-sounded like power line arcing. So we never used any of that stuff as a "gag" on our friends.

Sounds like your experience using those items was limited to people who were not that motivated to continue, regardless of their level of obesity.

If they worked that well, no one would need anything else and wars would be won on the battlefield with pepper spray and stun guns. Well, until armies got wise to it and started sending waves of fat guys to wage war.

 

[rhino]

I like this. I think phrasing could be important here. We're not "arming teachers", we're "allowing qualified teachers to arm themselves if they so desire". Personally, I would like to see us allow our teachers to do more than just carry a pistol under their shirt. This may be adequate for the average citizen who is simply going about their life, but for teachers, who spend a large majority of their time in the target-rich environments that are schools, and who are arming themselves primarily for the purpose of defending themselves and others from mass shooters, I would honestly like to see teachers be able to keep a battle rifle and some hard body armor locked in one of their cabinets if they choose to take their preparedness to that level. This would be way too controversial to be allowed, at least in the near future, but it's a nice thought.

My only real issue with arming teachers is liability concerns. People carry guns to deal with disparity of force. A 17 year old linebacker can beat the snot out of a 40-year old English teacher, and they sometimes do, especially in inner city schools. What happens when a teacher is attacked by a student and decides not to be a victim anymore? What happens if a teacher feels the need to shoot a student in self-defense? What happens then?

I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't think I want to. Like I said, I'm not necessarily against the idea of arming teachers. Just something to think about.

I like the way you think, especially since you're a millennial and you'll be voting a lot longer than the rest of us.

 

[chezuki]

I had no idea my invincibility was so closely tied to my fatness.

 

[rhino]

I had no idea my invincibility was so closely tied to my fatness.

It's good to learn that now, but I wish I'd known before.

 

[terrehautian]

I think arming anyone who is willing and able to take on that responsibility is okay. I started high school in 97 and we had two resource officers then. That puts the sro to studentbration between 600-750 to one. That is acceptable to me. A school superintendent in Illinois is actually taking classes to be an sro as she is in a highly rural area. For schools with not a lot of problems the ratio I said should squall major problems. If multiple buildings, one sro for each building. If each building is multiply floors, each floor has an sro. Maryland proves sro’s work. If schools can’t afford that many sro’s, then any staff can fill in.

 

[Sylvain]

Sounds like your experience using those items was limited to people who were not that motivated to continue, regardless of their level of obesity.

If they worked that well, no one would need anything else and wars would be won on the battlefield with pepper spray and stun guns. Well, until armies got wise to it and started sending waves of fat guys to wage war.

Pepper spray and stun guns, or even actual tasers, only work as deterrence tools when they are backed with lethal force.

They only work to stop an attacker if they know your next level of force involves your firearm and deadly force.

 

[Alamo]

... Personally, I would like to see us allow our teachers to do more than just carry a pistol under their shirt. This may be adequate for the average citizen who is simply going about their life, but for teachers, who spend a large majority of their time in the target-rich environments that are schools, and who are arming themselves primarily for the purpose of defending themselves and others from mass shooters, I would honestly like to see teachers be able to keep a battle rifle and some hard body armor locked in one of their cabinets if they choose to take their preparedness to that level. This would be way too controversial to be allowed, at least in the near future, but it's a nice thought. ...
.

So far, school shooters have largely folded their tents (often by suicide) when vigorously opposed, even by unarmed citizens. Although some have used rifles, by and large a determined teacher/administrator/janitor with a handgun is probably sufficient to handle them for now. A teacher with a rifle would be much better, but it would have to be unearthed from wherever it is stored, and time is of the essence in these kind of attacks. More than one determined teacher with firearms would be best.

In Texas there are about 170 school districts (or about 17% of all independent school districts) that have some form of non-police armed staff. The most basic requirement by law is that the staff member have a License to Carry (LTC) and the school provides written authorization to carry. All the schools go beyond that. As far as I can tell from reading news accounts all but one has gone with the (sort of non-official) Guardian Program. The Guardian programs generally require teachers to have a License to carry, psychological testing, interviews, completion of the Texas Department of Safety active shooter course, annual qualifications, approval of the school board, and any other requirements the school district wants (like only the principal, the armed teachers, and the local police know who is armed). They can have or mandate any other training of course, and some articles allude to that at least some schools train in team tactics.

There is at least one school the has publicly stated they have rifles and shotguns available to their armed staff as well.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

I would agree with some. The nice lady from AFT would be the "first victim." Mr. Bratton being the "professional chief," knows not of what he speaks. He has forgotten how to be a police officer, and is more than likely a "professional politician" and not a police official. The "I love me" area of his office attests to that.

I give kudos to the school for taking a proactive stance, and teaching the kids to defend themselves. There aren't many schools or school systems for that matter that are doing this for obvious political reasons.