Selective Service... is it constitutional???

[jsharmon7]

That's not the argument. While I'm adamantly against involuntary servitude, such as a draft, I'll be among the first to grab my gear & head to the nearest Armory to see how I might be put to use if we're invaded.

Want to vs. Forced to.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Honor, duty, responsibility are just terms for slavery, and if you are not a slave then you have none of those, do you?

In a free country, one may choose to shirk such things w/out reprisal. One may also choose to accept them. Choice is the key. While I would resist a draft (violently if necessary), I would drive to the armory & volunteer if I were needed for a just cause (repel invaders).

 

[RockofStrength]

I signed up for the Draft as soon as I became of age.
In fact I still have my draft card around here somewhere.

Course at my age, if I burned my Draft Card nobody would care... LOL

SERIOUSLY though, in the event of a major attack/war there needs to be a mechanism in place to get the manpower mobilized as quickly as possible to defend the country.

Even with this in place, it'll take some months for newly trained soldiers to make it through training.

Imagine how much longer it would take if there was no mechanism in place?

Whether it's constitutional isn't the issue to me in this case.
If an individual feels no obligation to be available to defend their country in the event of a major attack/war, then they should find a country they can be loyal to and go there...

You're serious? Think about that line of reasoning for a minute. See where that has led. I'm not gonna post the inevitable Hitler/Stalin/Mao pics, but seriously. We're on a forum where the 2A is held right below the Gospel in importance, and you're telling me that it's not an issue if the draft is constitutional.

I will happily (well, willingly. I'm not happy to have to kill folk.) sign up and I'll bring my own equipment if necessary to be able to defend this nation. But if this nation decides to be the aggressor, if it decides to be the one who by rights should lose because it decides to interfere with other nations for unjust reasons and purposes, then I will just as happily languish in prison rather than let a nation that stands for freedom spread tyrrany abroad.

 

[Expat]

In a free country, one may choose to shirk such things w/out reprisal. One may also choose to accept them. Choice is the key. While I would resist a draft (violently if necessary), I would drive to the armory & volunteer if I were needed for a just cause (repel invaders).

and if there were not sufficient volunteers? After all, why should I sign up, that's why we have a gubmint. To deal with this sort of thing. As has been pointed out, WW2 was staffed mostly by draftees. I seriously doubt we would have a higher rate of volunteers if the enemy came here.

 

[gunowner930]

I find it interesting what people decide all on their own is or isn't Constitutional. I can't see how anyone can be so sure about this. Congress has the power to raise an Army, it doesn't say how it must do so.

I don't agree with the draft, but Supreme Courts going back a very long time have said it's Constitutional. No, that alone doesn't make it so, but it must be taken into account.

Unfortunately you're right. The draft is constitutional by ruling of the Supreme Court. But I still think they screwed up that decision.

As to slavery, what do you pure libertarians think about military discipline? If I sign up voluntarily, I still must follow someone else's orders. I can't just quit whenever I want. In your pure view, should I be able to resign from the military I voluntarily joined if I get an order I don't like, or I'm sent to a war I dont' agree with? Isn't that a form of slavery too, according to your argument?

Not sure If I would call myself a pure libertarian, but if you volunteer then yes you should be subject to military discipline, and no you shouldn't be allowed to quit until your enlistment is up. You entered a contract with the US government. Not sure if the other branches have a similiar slogan, but USMC= U Signed a MotherF---ing Contract. I support the military and think it can be a great option for many people coming out of high school, but I just think that idea of forced servitude to the Government via the draft in the name of freedom is abhorrent.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

and if there were not sufficient volunteers? After all, why should I sign up, that's why we have a gubmint. To deal with this sort of thing. As has been pointed out, WW2 was staffed mostly by draftees. I seriously doubt we would have a higher rate of volunteers if the enemy came here.

If there aren't enough willing volunteers, then we either deserve to be overran or the war isn't just. FDR did illegal things to toss our hat into the WWII circle to sate our ill-advised entangling alliance with Britain.

 

[Expat]

If there aren't enough willing volunteers, then we either deserve to be overran or the war isn't just. FDR did illegal things to toss our hat into the WWII circle to sate our ill-advised entangling alliance with Britain.

So using WW2 as the example. If we were taken over by Germany/Japan, we would deserve it. Certainly would have cut down on enjoying all your rights then...

 

[USMC_0311]

I think the draft is a bad idea also. If you don't want to serve I sure don't want you covering my back either. Some think wars are unjust some think they are.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

So using WW2 as the example. If we were taken over by Germany/Japan, we would deserve it. Certainly would have cut down on enjoying all your rights then...

Had they invaded the US, I'm sure plenty of volunteers would have stepped up. Remember that WWI & the Treaty of Versailles caused the European portion of WWII & that oil embargoes caused the Pacific portion of WWII. It's not like we were just sitting here all innocent, freely trading with all other nations & minding our own business when all of a sudden we got attacked for no reason...

 

[joslar15]

Not sure If I would call myself a pure libertarian, but if you volunteer then yes you should be subject to military discipline, and no you shouldn't be allowed to quit until your enlistment is up. You entered a contract with the US government. Not sure if the other branches have a similiar slogan, but USMC= U Signed a MotherF---ing Contract. I support the military and think it can be a great option for many people coming out of high school, but I just think that idea of forced servitude to the Government via the draft in the name of freedom is abhorrent.

In other words, you understand that freedom isn't free and you are perfectly fine allowing someone eles to pay your share.

 

[M88A1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by $mooth
Canada has had conscription in the past as well (WWI and WWII)

But unless you're a Canadian citizen, they cannot conscript you just because you're within their borders at a time of conscription.
__________________
Why must people continually confuse "Conservative" with "Republican"?

Thats exactly what i was talking about...a repeat of the draft dogers years gone by

 

[Phil502]

You got a card? I remember filling one out, but dont remember getting one in return. Dont deny yourself one of those government cush jobs sign up.

I got one, filled it out, took it to the post office and got a letter in return with a number on it. I still have it, almost 30 years later.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

In other words, you understand that freedom isn't free and you are perfectly fine allowing someone eles to pay your share.

You're assuming he wouldn't volunteer. Bad assumption.

 

[gunowner930]

In other words, you understand that freedom isn't free and you are perfectly fine allowing someone eles to pay your share.

Well if 5 years of VOLUNTARY service in the Marine Corps and 3 deployments to Iraq isn't my fair share then call me a coward.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

In a free country, one may choose to shirk such things w/out reprisal. One may also choose to accept them. Choice is the key. While I would resist a draft (violently if necessary), I would drive to the armory & volunteer if I were needed for a just cause (repel invaders).

There are always reprisals for everything, be it legal or social. If you lie then people don't trust you, if you want people to trust you then you are forced to tell the truth. Also, you have have slavery in a free country, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Also, i would not suggest going to an Armory to get a weapon is we were invaded. Life isn't a tv show, the military would tell you to get lost.

 

[rambone]

and if there were not sufficient volunteers? After all, why should I sign up, that's why we have a gubmint. To deal with this sort of thing. As has been pointed out, WW2 was staffed mostly by draftees. I seriously doubt we would have a higher rate of volunteers if the enemy came here.

FDR started drafting people in 1940. Before Pearl Harbor. Just because he could.

In other words, you understand that freedom isn't free and you are perfectly fine allowing someone eles to pay your share.

You're arguing to take people's share.

 

[rambone]

Who wants to be in the trenches with people who don't want to be there?

 

[Phil502]

Had they invaded the US, I'm sure plenty of volunteers would have stepped up. Remember that WWI & the Treaty of Versailles caused the European portion of WWII & that oil embargoes caused the Pacific portion of WWII. It's not like we were just sitting here all innocent, freely trading with all other nations & minding our own business when all of a sudden we got attacked for no reason...

I'm not so sure the volunteers would be so easy to get now. Heck a lot of people stand around while other people get attacked all the time. There has been a lot of work done to make the citizens think their own country is crap. Don't hold your breath waiting for people to drop the X-box controller and put their necks on the line for something they hardly respect.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

There are always reprisals for everything, be it legal or social.

The potential reprisal for an American male not complying with enslavement via conscription is the threat of imprisonment or death. That's not exactly equivalent to a social stigma...

I'm not so sure the volunteers would be so easy to get now. Heck a lot of people stand around while other people get attacked all the time. There has been a lot of work done to make the citizens think their own country is crap. Don't hold your breath waiting for people to drop the X-box controller and put their necks on the line for something they hardly respect.

If we can't raise enough volunteers for a just cause, then our nation is already lost. Enslaving people isn't going to fix it at that point.

 

[joslar15]

Well if 5 years of VOLUNTARY service in the Marine Corps and 3 deployments to Iraq isn't my fair share then call me a coward.

Well my apologies, Marine. I may just be having a "senior moment" with this whole discussion equating military service by conscription with slavery. I see it as a rationalization by two-faced pussies, yet wavers of the flag of patriotism. Back in 78 I sent my selective service card and in 83 I enlisted. Again, my apologies.