selling to individual without ltch

[LarryC]

What is the law concerning someone without a ltch?
I'm going to copy all his driver license info and picture
Just wondering if that is good enough or should I pass?

DIRECT QUOTE FROM "(ATF FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATION REFERENCE GUIDE" (18 U.S.C. 922(a) and (5). (922(d). 27CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

"A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector."

The ATF does not provide ANY method to run a background check (4473) to anyone except FFL DEALERS. so unless you KNOW or have a good reason to believe they are illegal you can sell to a buyer and you have met the ATF requirements! I don't believe that any of us here would sell to anyone we didn't think were legal, however we have NO DUTY to investigate a buyer! If however a buyer does turn up to have a Felony or is somehow illegal that you did not know about YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE and did not violate any laws!

I personally believe we have enough laws and rules on the books that I don't need to add any! The only thing I would ever ask for is to see an Indiana drivers license or ID. If I know the person is an Indiana resident and 18 years old, that is all I am required to do. I am 77 YO and during my life I have seen many gun owners that do not want to carry a firearm but do want one for home protection, why in the world would you not want to sell them one?

I personally WANT more honest people to own firearms, they should not be deterred by irrational fears that sellers have due to not knowing ATF rules / laws! Some of these people do not want others to know they have a firearm (as it seems some here feel), therefore they prefer to purchase one from a private seller.

 

[LazyL0228]

Go to your FFL and split the cost. If they do not want to do that then move on to next buyer. That's what I do then no need to worry.

 

[Spear Dane]

I'm going to copy all his driver license info and picture

No. No you are not. You can see it, but you ain't copying sh&t.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Ask these two questions:

1. Are you a resident of the state of Indiana?

2. Are you prohibited from owning a firearm?

If he answers yes to the first, and no to the second, then you are good to go. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Tanfodude]

Just do FFL for peace of mind if you don't know the person.

 

[bwframe]

Go to your FFL and split the cost. If they do not want to do that then move on to next buyer. That's what I do then no need to worry.

FYI - Lotta folks on INGO aren't gonna want to go this way. Just sayin'...

 

[Win52C]

Lots of good info here. Yes, you technically only need to ask the primary questions.( resident, of age and not prohibited) But if I don’t know the other party I wanna see some form of ID. And I write down who bought the item, where they are from etc in my record book when I get home. You may not have everything but you’ll have enough so the cops can track the item, if need be. That way when officer so and so calls me 15 years later cause an 870 I bought new in 94 (true story) was found in a crack house. I know whom I sold it too. I did my part. If the next guy has no clue. It isn’t on me.

My personal rule is no ID. No sale OR purchase. If they aren’t willing to at least show it then they have something to hide. Like being from Illinois and trying to sell a handgun across state lines or something similar.

Btw. A bill of sale should include name address and phone number. So why would anyone get bent out of shape about showing the Id to verify it? Seems silly.

 

[Prometheus]

If you aren't comfortable selling over a handshake, you shouldn't be selling it to that person. Period.

All this ridiculous talk of copying ID's, making a bill of sale or anything else is mutual masturbation. At best.

There is no more protection under the law selling over a handshake vs any of that other nonsense.

Stop kidding yourselves.

 

[jagee]

I had a real snarky sarcastic response typed and decided not to post.

So I'll just say, buy/sell however you and the other party are both comfortable with.

 

[KJQ6945]

I had a real snarky sarcastic response typed and decided not to post.

So I'll just say, buy/sell however you and the other party are both comfortable with.

Prometheus pretty much said the same thing, in more blunt terms. I agree with both of you.

I'll just add, I won't deal with anyone who wants to copy any info, or wants a bill of sale. I've never bought anything on INGO that I couldn't find on Gunbroker.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Prometheus pretty much said the same thing, in more blunt terms. I agree with both of you.

I'll just add, I won't deal with anyone who wants to copy any info, or wants a bill of sale. I've never bought anything on INGO that I couldn't find on Gunbroker.

Agreed. I'm not giving my personal information to anyone that I don't know.

 

[Gabriel]

No. No you are not. You can see it, but you ain't copying sh&t.

Yeah, that would be the end of that transaction for me.

 

[miguel]

Declare yourself a "sanctuary seller" and sell freely...

 

[stocknup]

I hate always being paranoid ,but I always consider that a transaction could be secretly videoed .
The left is always looking for the " See , I told you how easy it is to get a gun " ....I don`t want to be in a video where nothing was asked .
I always ask to see their Drivers license , State ID or LTCH ......and judge if they look to be a "Proper" person . ( BTW < I`m batting 100% with the INGO bunch )
Like it or not ....All gun owners are judged by the actions of a few .

 

[HoughMade]

FYI - Lotta folks on INGO aren't gonna want to go this way. Just sayin'...

That's what they say on line, anyway.

I'm betting that it largely depends on the gun and the price.

 

[injb]

I hate always being paranoid ,but I always consider that a transaction could be secretly videoed .
The left is always looking for the " See , I told you how easy it is to get a gun " ....I don`t want to be in a video where nothing was asked .
I always ask to see their Drivers license , State ID or LTCH ......and judge if they look to be a "Proper" person . ( BTW < I`m batting 100% with the INGO bunch )
Like it or not ....All gun owners are judged by the actions of a few .

I'd be more worried about the buyer getting in trouble and turning into a false witness against me. It wouldn't take much to make a case for "reasonable cause to believe" that they were a prohibited person. "I told him I didn't have a DL but it said it was ok" etc. I'd send an email/PM in advance asking the necessary questions, and stating that I'll need to see a valid DL to complete the deal, and get a reply.

 

[bwframe]

Apparently, a lot of folks don't trade very much?

 

[JettaKnight]

I'd be more worried about the buyer getting in trouble and turning into a false witness against me. It wouldn't take much to make a case for "reasonable cause to believe" that they were a prohibited person. "I told him I didn't have a DL but it said it was ok" etc. I'd send an email/PM in advance asking the necessary questions, and stating that I'll need to see a valid DL to complete the deal, and get a reply.

Huh.


The only real thing I worry about is the INGO'er I'm dealing with will show up without any pants.



In reality, the only time I've every been questioned is when I showed up to a sale on my scooter. We scooter riders get a bad image from the DUI crowd...

 

[WebSnyper]

In reality, the only time I've every been questioned is when I showed up to a sale on my scooter. We scooter riders get a bad image from the DUI crowd...

I'll admit, every time I see a grown man riding one, especially in bad weather, I think there goes DUI Guy.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Huh.


The only real thing I worry about is the INGO'er I'm dealing with will show up without any pants.



In reality, the only time I've every been questioned is when I showed up to a sale on my scooter. We scooter riders get a bad image from the DUI crowd...

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