Serpa Derpa

[churchmouse]

Yes and no, the design of the Derpa is the failure, your trigger finger should be doing no other work that pressing the trigger, no buttons, boogers, butts, etc. the Sweeney video itself is proof that a trained person can still Serpa Derp. I know that part of the reason you got the ALS was me and others insisting it was sooo much better, and it is, for all but I guess a few firearms. No doubt that it is safer than the Serpa, along with more natural draw.

As I said........Yup. I am still messing with the ALS. I have not given up on it as yet. My SIL kind of likes it for his SA Champion. It is an inch shorter than the standard Gov issue so maybe. It is notably higher on the belt line which I think is my issue with it coupled with no relief in the front. That increases how far I have to lift the gun before it clears. I am sure with repetition this could be overcome. But man, old dog/new tricks and all of that.

And my old shoulders aint digging this either.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I did try the Safarilad ALS and will admit that it is also a great system, and probably safer for the less diciplined.

It's safer for everyone. Being well disciplined reduces your chances of a problem, but unless you are perfect it never gets it to 0%. If that trade off is worth it to you or not is a different question.

I carry concealed and have no use for a retention device other than proper fit and friction. It's one less thing to go wrong. It's one less thing to make it harder to access my gun if I'm injured or grappled. I've worn it through grappling classes, ran with it, etc. and know it's not going to cough the gun out during those situations. Active retention gives me nothing I don't have and just adds potential issues into the mix.

If you open carry and a gun grab attempt is a concern, active retention is more valuable.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I don't use a retention holster for concealed carry. My opinion of the Serpa is based on its use as a duty holster. It is a terrible holster for a multitude of reasons:

If you are applying upward tension on your gun, the retention will not release it.

The retention system is susceptible to failure from being clogged with debris, rendering your firearm useless.

You can ****ing shoot yourself.

The attachment system is weak. I have seen a holster break off from the paddle. Not unscrewed. BROKEN.


None of these problems plague the Safariland.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't use a retention holster for concealed carry. My opinion of the Serpa is based on its use as a duty holster. It is a terrible holster for a multitude of reasons:

If you are applying upward tension on your gun, the retention will not release it.

The retention system is susceptible to failure from being clogged with debris, rendering your firearm useless.

You can ****ing shoot yourself.

The attachment system is weak. I have seen a holster break off from the paddle. Not unscrewed. BROKEN.


None of these problems plague the Safariland.

Seriously people.......my finger is exactly where it always is if I draw from any holster. It is pointed along the frame above the trigger......Serpa/Fobus/ALS/Freaking uncle mikes..........that is where I have my finger until I have a site on what ever I am going to point my gun at....regardless. This is why I am shaking my head.
The other reasons you list might well be viable. I have not rolled around on the ground with it on yet to see if this will happen. I really hope I can stay on my feet in an altercation and to this point in life (through more than I will openly admit in here) I have stayed upright. Well there was that chick that clocked me with a beer mug long ago but I digress...

I will never understand how one shoots themselves drawing. From anything. I know it happens and yes it happens to people of experience. I just do not understand it.

 

[Vigilant]

Seriously people.......my finger is exactly where it always is if I draw from any holster. It is pointed along the frame above the trigger......Serpa/Fobus/ALS/Freaking uncle mikes..........that is where I have my finger until I have a site on what ever I am going to point my gun at....regardless. This is why I am shaking my head.
The other reasons you list might well be viable. I have not rolled around on the ground with it on yet to see if this will happen. I really hope I can stay on my feet in an altercation and to this point in life (through more than I will openly admit in here) I have stayed upright. Well there was that chick that clocked me with a beer mug long ago but I digress...

I will never understand how one shoots themselves drawing. From anything. I know it happens and yes it happens to people of experience. I just do not understand it.

CM, Patrick Sweeney was making a video about keeping your finger straight on a Serpa, and he still flummoxed it on camera. This is a professional gunsmith, LE trainer, author. I’m saying it hasn’t happened to you, yet. I’ve also not been to the range with you to see how you shoot/train. (Movement, time, cardio, stressors? Drawing from concealment). Again, a guy making a video where he points out how safe the holster is as long as your finger is straight, botched the draw, and did what everyone that has shot themselves with the Serpa did. The design sucks and it’s dangerous. That’s pretty much end of story, if it wasn’t so cheap and backed by fabulous marketing, it would have gone away like the Pinto, Corvair, and 1911’s.

 

[cedartop]

.
I will never understand how one shoots themselves drawing. From anything. I know it happens and yes it happens to people of experience. I just do not understand it.

You are right when you say it happens, it happens a LOT. I personally know 4 people who have done it that would never figure into any stats because almost nobody knows. Who would want to tell people they shot themselves? It mostly happens because people put their finger on the trigger too soon in an attempt to be fast. The Serpa design exacerbate's this problem. I am not calling out any one in particular, but just because something bad has not happened to you with a particular product, no matter what product that is, doesn't mean it is a good product. If people choose to continue to use this design in face of what is becoming overwhelming evidence, that is your prerogative, but please don't say it is a good design just because YOU have never had a problem with it.

 

[churchmouse]

CM, Patrick Sweeney was making a video about keeping your finger straight on a Serpa, and he still flummoxed it on camera. This is a professional gunsmith, LE trainer, author. I’m saying it hasn’t happened to you, yet. I’ve also not been to the range with you to see how you shoot/train. (Movement, time, cardio, stressors? Drawing from concealment). Again, a guy making a video where he points out how safe the holster is as long as your finger is straight, botched the draw, and did what everyone that has shot themselves with the Serpa did. The design sucks and it’s dangerous. That’s pretty much end of story, if it wasn’t so cheap and backed by fabulous marketing, it would have gone away like the Pinto, Corvair, and 1911’s.

Corsair...???

You know I will see you again sometime yes...

 

[cedartop]

CM, Patrick Sweeney was making a video about keeping your finger straight on a Serpa, and he still flummoxed it on camera. This is a professional gunsmith, LE trainer, author. I’m saying it hasn’t happened to you, yet. I’ve also not been to the range with you to see how you shoot/train. (Movement, time, cardio, stressors? Drawing from concealment). Again, a guy making a video where he points out how safe the holster is as long as your finger is straight, botched the draw, and did what everyone that has shot themselves with the Serpa did. The design sucks and it’s dangerous. That’s pretty much end of story, if it wasn’t so cheap and backed by fabulous marketing, it would have gone away like the Pinto, Corsair, and 1911’s.

I always thought the Corsair was pretty cool, but it is outdated.

 

[churchmouse]

I always thought the Corsair was pretty cool, but it is outdated.

Did he mean the sailing boat or the Ralph Nader special.

 

[cedartop]

Did he mean the sailing boat or the Ralph Nader special.

I assumed the car, totally forgot about the sailboat. Weren't pirates called corairs at one time too?

 

[churchmouse]

I assumed the car, totally forgot about the sailboat. Weren't pirates called corairs at one time too?

I believe the swords some carried were named as such but I am not sure.

We had a corvair. 1st wife's car. Turbo 4 speed convertible.

 

[Bigtanker]

You ain't going to shoot yourself drawing from a Serpa if you don't carry one in the chamber, so HA!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I will never understand how one shoots themselves drawing. From anything. I know it happens and yes it happens to people of experience. I just do not understand it.

How many times in your life have you picked up a drink? Beyond count, probably.

How many times have you been distracted and knocked a drink over when you went to pick it up? Probably a tiny tiny fraction, but more than zero.

That's how.

 

[Vigilant]

See, Corvair is such a ****ed up word/car, autocorrect made it something better.

 

[churchmouse]

How many times in your life have you picked up a drink? Beyond count, probably.

How many times have you been distracted and knocked a drink over when you went to pick it up? Probably a tiny tiny fraction, but more than zero.

That's how.

Well yeah after a few "Drinks".....

Good analogy.

Until I find something that works for me it will be the Serpa.

 

[hpclayto]

I don’t have a problem with the actual drawing action of a serpa, I used them for a while a long time ago before I knew anything better was available. They just feel so damn cheap, bad fit and poor concealability.

 

[churchmouse]

I don’t have a problem with the actual drawing action of a serpa, I used them for a while a long time ago before I knew anything better was available. They just feel so damn cheap, bad fit and poor concealability.

The 2 I own fit up nicely to the 1911.
As to conceal both the Serpa and the ALS are bad in this regard.
I have a very well made leather on the belt holster that I use when the CZ 97 gets the call as EDC. The i911 fits up in it acceptably. Not perfect but very close.
I may go this route if I can find a nice leather unit.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The 2 I own fit up nicely to the 1911.
As to conceal both the Serpa and the ALS are bad in this regard.
I have a very well made leather on the belt holster that I use when the CZ 97 gets the call as EDC. The i911 fits up in it acceptably. Not perfect but very close.
I may go this route if I can find a nice leather unit.

I've got some leather ones you're welcome to try. Both with and without retention strap. If you find one that works for you, it's yours.

 

[churchmouse]

I've got some leather ones you're welcome to try. Both with and without retention strap. If you find one that works for you, it's yours.

When I get through the next week or so I will get with you. Burgers are of course.....on me.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I don’t have a problem with the actual drawing action of a serpa, I used them for a while a long time ago before I knew anything better was available. They just feel so damn cheap, bad fit and poor concealability.

I've only owned one Serpa, and it's still going strong 10 or 12 years later. Can't say to other modles, but the 1911 Serpa fits well. Poor concealability, however is correct. Not as bad as the ALS, but they do stick out. This is why I carry with the Bravo Concealment now. In fact, Iv'e been using my new Vickers Glock 17 over my 1911, because I haven't made the effort to get a Bravo Concealment rig for the 1911 yet... I still trust the Serpa, but I can no longer live with the bulkiness... unless I just don't worry, and OC, but I, mainly CC.