Suarez - The Fog of War - A Lack of Certainty

[Indy Wing Chun]

Give me one well-known mass shooting that transpired in a non-gun free zone.

This one!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pDIvA0E3c[/ame]

 

[YukYuPhat]

The truth is NO ONE here knows what they would do unless they've been in that situation before. I'm willing to bet 99.9% of the people in that theatre never thought "what would I do if someone opened fire" yet there are reports of boyfriends taking bullets for girlfriends. People are capable of just about anything.

The best we can to is train ourselves to have a response instead of a reaction so that we may, hopefully, overcome the "freeze" a little sooner and implement that response (whatever it may be).

I have come to realize that there are 3 kinds of people in this world. The Sheep, The Sheepdog, and the Wolf. We only saw 2 kinds of people in that theater on that fateful night. The Wolf and the Sheep. But when I ponder on those things, when I make myself sit down and really think. My thoughts are that if I am in a situation like that, I would rather be a Sheepdog that failed, than a Sheep that succeeded in just crying out for someone to rescue them. I don't care what kind of armor that wolf was wearing. If one person would have shot back, and even missed! That piece of garbage would of tucked tail and ran. And I believe even with armor if he would of gotten hit and not severely wounded he would of tucked tail and ran. The lone wolf scene always depends on finding sheep. Because if that wolf finds a sheepdog, he runs. And its just a matter of how many sheep are hurt or worse before the sheepdog shows up.

 

[Indy Wing Chun]

I have come to realize that there are 3 kinds of people in this world. The Sheep, The Sheepdog, and the Wolf. We only saw 2 kinds of people in that theater on that fateful night. The Wolf and the Sheep. But when I ponder on those things, when I make myself sit down and really think. My thoughts are that if I am in a situation like that, I would rather be a Sheepdog that failed, than a Sheep that succeeded in just crying out for someone to rescue them. I don't care what kind of armor that wolf was wearing. If one person would have shot back, and even missed! That piece of garbage would of tucked tail and ran. And I believe even with armor if he would of gotten hit and not severely wounded he would of tucked tail and ran. The lone wolf scene always depends on finding sheep. Because if that wolf finds a sheepdog, he runs. And its just a matter of how many sheep are hurt or worse before the sheepdog shows up.

Funny, Dave Grossman came to realize the same thing.

I agree that if there were armed citizens in the theater and took action, many deaths/injuries could have been prevented.

My point is that you (royal and personal) do not KNOW how you will respond in a particular situation until you are in that situation.

 

[jayhawk]

Give me one well-known mass shooting that transpired in a non-gun free zone. List the last 10 and you will see that mass shootings occur in gun free zones.

Eliminate gun free zones and you will eliminate mass shootings.

(Yes, I know about the Detroit police station but that is not as well known).

I don't doubt that, but I think it's a little bit of a stretch to assume that mass shootings will disappear if you eliminate gun free zones.

What about Killeen, TX? Pretty sure that wasn't a gun free zone. James Huberty at a McDonald's in CA (not sure what CA's laws were at the time), Michael McLendon in Geneva Co...several mass shootings in businesses that may or may not have had specific gun policies at the time. Expand beyond the US and there are plenty more examples.

 

[youngda9]

Very few, if any, mass shootings have happened in non "gun free zones" since the proliferation of concealed carry laws throughout the us.

The Giffords shooting may be an example.

So what...prepare to defend yourself at all times, only you have that ability.

 

[griffin]

Very few, if any, mass shootings have happened in non "gun free zones" since the proliferation of concealed carry laws throughout the us.

Every public shooting where three or more people have been killed since WWII except one has happened in a gun-free zone.

Edited for more accuracy.

 

[iChokePeople]

Every multiple shooting of three or more people since WWII except one has happened in a gun-free zone.

Lougher (Arizona)? Luby's?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I don't doubt that, but I think it's a little bit of a stretch to assume that mass shootings will disappear if you eliminate gun free zones.

I respectfully disagree. Name a mass shooting in a non-gun free zone.

Mass shooting only stop when a man with a gun other than the shooter shows up. That gun is carried by the police or by intended victims. Which is quicker?

What about Killeen, TX? Pretty sure that wasn't a gun free zone.

With respect, it was a gun free zone. The notion that Texans tote guns is horse opera nonsense. Texas implemented carry reform in 1996!

The woman who later became elected, Dr. Suzanne Hupp, testified that pursuant to Tejas law she left her pistol in the car while dining at Luby's with her parents.

[/QUOTE]ames Huberty at a McDonald's in CA (not sure what CA's laws were at the time),[/QUOTE]

Carry licenses in California were and continue to be discretionary.

Huberty knew he would be the only one armed as he slaughtered people with his shotgun as a tiny fraction of a percentage point have licenses to carry in California.

Michael McLendon in Geneva Co...

Close, but McLendon ambushed family members in their homes, not in public, and then returned to his employer to die after a shootout with police.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Luby's?

Again, the notion that Texans are armed is cowboy show nonsense.

Lougher (Arizona)?

Sure, I think the Arizona Massacre counts.

 

[griffin]

I should have clarified and stated "public" shootings. Here is my cite for that:

Gun Control and Mass Murders - National Review Online

 

[iChokePeople]

In any case, even if there's an exception or two somewhere, the point is definitely valid.

 

[CarmelHP]

I don't doubt that, but I think it's a little bit of a stretch to assume that mass shootings will disappear if you eliminate gun free zones.

What about Killeen, TX? Pretty sure that wasn't a gun free zone. James Huberty at a McDonald's in CA (not sure what CA's laws were at the time), Michael McLendon in Geneva Co...several mass shootings in businesses that may or may not have had specific gun policies at the time. Expand beyond the US and there are plenty more examples.

It was. It was illegal to carry in TX at the time. You're more likely to win the lottery than get a carry license in S. Cal then or now.

 

[actaeon277]

I have come to realize that there are 3 kinds of people in this world. The Sheep, The Sheepdog, and the Wolf. We only saw 2 kinds of people in that theater on that fateful night. The Wolf and the Sheep. But when I ponder on those things, when I make myself sit down and really think. My thoughts are that if I am in a situation like that, I would rather be a Sheepdog that failed, than a Sheep that succeeded in just crying out for someone to rescue them. I don't care what kind of armor that wolf was wearing. If one person would have shot back, and even missed! That piece of garbage would of tucked tail and ran. And I believe even with armor if he would of gotten hit and not severely wounded he would of tucked tail and ran. The lone wolf scene always depends on finding sheep. Because if that wolf finds a sheepdog, he runs. And its just a matter of how many sheep are hurt or worse before the sheepdog shows up.

 

[actaeon277]

Too many times to count, but in mine the trigger pulls and pulls but with increasing resistance and the sear will never break.

Best,

Joe

In my dreams I used to have, I pull the trigger and nothing happens.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't doubt that, but I think it's a little bit of a stretch to assume that mass shootings will disappear if you eliminate gun free zones.

What about Killeen, TX? Pretty sure that wasn't a gun free zone. James Huberty at a McDonald's in CA (not sure what CA's laws were at the time), Michael McLendon in Geneva Co...several mass shootings in businesses that may or may not have had specific gun policies at the time. Expand beyond the US and there are plenty more examples.

Most military bases in the US are gun free zones. It does seem ironic, gun free in the military.
Most soldiers are not trigger pullers.
The group shot at in Killeen were not combat troops.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I think he is talking about Luby's, not Fort Hood.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I rarely agree with Suarez... Most of his write-ups seem geared toward pushing people toward "more training". I mostly ignore what he writes/says for the same reason I don't ask the guys at HH Gregg which appliance to buy.

If I were in the theater, I have absolutely no idea how I would have reacted. But, I *do* know what I would have been equipped to do. I've never been in a SHTF situation, so as far as I know, I'd shart myself & huddle into a weeping mass on the floor, hiding behind someone's grandmother. If I manage to not do the default thing & do bring my flashlight & pistol to bear, it might or might not cause a physical stop of the attack & it might or might not cause a psychological stop of the attack. I may or may not end up a victim of the guy & I may or may not make an impact in the casualty count.

Either way, if I'm ever in a situation like this, I know I'll have a flashlight available to shed light on the chaos, a full size pistol with a capable cartridge, the inherent skill to aim it accurately, & the predetermined will to pull the trigger.

 

[jeremy]

The only Author I think is a bigger Hack than Suarez is Grossman...

 

[jeremy]

One person with a gun could have stopped this. If you want to stop mass shootings, eliminate gun free zones, i.e. governmentally approved slaughter pens.

Hell one Person who was willing to Fight could have stopped this...
Whether that person was armed with a Pistol, a knife, theirs hands, crap even a large bucket of popcorn. The Problem is that most of Our Society has given up the belief that One must fight for themselves, and would rather wait for the LEOs, or the Toothfairy to ride in and save their asses...

We have become a Nation of ****ing Politically Correct Nancy's...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Hell one Person who was willing to Fight could have stopped this

I concur and pointed this out in the original thread on this incident.

Gun nuts focus on guns, but it is not the gun that wins fights.