Subcompact beats full size...according to friend

[Route 45]

I carry a 45 shield, and so far I've only identified two hollow points that work well out of it. One is the Hornady Critical Defense and the other is the Barnes. The regular pressure HST did not perform worth a hoot. I've got some + p but I haven't had a chance to test them yet. I'm hopeful that they will do well.

What do you mean by "did not perform worth a hoot?"

 

[thelefthand]

Since I haven't sat through an engineering class in over 20 years, there's a pretty good chance that I have my terminology mixed up. Either way, it doesn't change why full size is generally easier to shoot faster and more accuratly than a sub compact.

 

[thelefthand]

What do you mean by "did not perform worth a hoot?"

2 out of 5 Failed to expand at all. The other 3 only partially expanded, and by partially I mean just barely.

 

[Route 45]

2 out of 5 Failed to expand at all. The other 3 only partially expanded, and by partially I mean just barely.

Failed to expand in what? How deep was penetration?

 

[churchmouse]

As always so many ideas/opinions.

There will be more Muzzle pressure/speed from a longer barrel with the right load. To have just an extra inch for the expanding gas to effect the round and push it along the rifling is advantages. Just look at the figures on about any ammo site. Underwood is a great example. The stats on .45 ACP are given from a standard 5" barrel. They have stats on a 6" and yes the round is faster over the 5" and hauling the mail over a short barrel.

I have shot the shorty's and can hit well enough with them for SD or HD I guess but I prefer the 5" barrel. It is actually less work to be accurate with them for me.
And in the end what works for me is all that really matters anyway.....

 

[Tactically Fat]

How about this:

Inherent (non-human-acted-upon) accuracy of a handgun is independent of barrel length.

Accuracy of a handgun, no matter the barrel length, is dependent upon myriad factors including, but not limited to: grip length, barrel length, sight radius, sights themselves, the shooter's eyes, grip strength, and isolation of the trigger finger movements as the trigger is depressed to the rear.

 

[bobzilla]

As always so many ideas/opinions.

There will be more Muzzle pressure/speed from a longer barrel with the right load. To have just an extra inch for the expanding gas to effect the round and push it along the rifling is advantages. Just look at the figures on about any ammo site. Underwood is a great example. The stats on .45 ACP are given from a standard 5" barrel. They have stats on a 6" and yes the round is faster over the 5" and hauling the mail over a short barrel.

I have shot the shorty's and can hit well enough with them for SD or HD I guess but I prefer the 5" barrel. It is actually less work to be accurate with them for me.
And in the end what works for me is all that really matters anyway.....

I'm the same. I hit well enough with the 3" but prefer the 5". TWSS

 

[Hopper]

I don't know why, but I have been shooting compacts/subcompacts better than their full-sized equivalents for a while now. For example, even though the difference is subtle, I am more accurate with my P-01 than my full-sized 75B. I kind of wonder if my eyes are changing just a bit as I age, where my depth perception seems to work better and faster with a shorter sight radius.

The only exception is with revolvers. I can shoot my 4" models slightly better than 3'" lengths. So maybe my theory is bunk.

 

[thelefthand]

Failed to expand in what? How deep was penetration?

PermaGell with 4 layers of denim. Penetration was all over the place from 13" to 17 1/2". None expanded to a larger diameter than a decent 9mm. Not the worse thing I tested, but with all the hype around the HST, I expected a lot better. They really looked like they just needed a little more velocity so I'm optimistic that the +P version will be pretty impressive.

 

[Route 45]

PermaGell with 4 layers of denim. Penetration was all over the place from 13" to 17 1/2". None expanded to a larger diameter than a decent 9mm. Not the worse thing I tested, but with all the hype around the HST, I expected a lot better. They really looked like they just needed a little more velocity so I'm optimistic that the +P version will be pretty impressive.

Thanks for the info. I usually carry a Shield .45 loaded with HST 230 grain +P. I look forward to your results. That being said, 13" to 17 1/2" with a bullet that's already .45 caliber ain't bad. 230 grain bullets are always my choice, regardless of design. They seem to penetrate better than 185s, and penetration is much more important than expansion.

 

[Hohn]

Thank for clearing some of that up for me, part of my explanation is exactly that, physics... The energy and velocity lost on any full size to sub compact is minimal at best from a moot argument, especially if I carry my 10mm or 45.... The magazine use for me IMO, uniformity, same basic principle the USMC teaches...

It depends on the round and just how small the small gun is. A snub loses so much compared to a full size .357 that there's almost no point in .357 for that small gun.

200 fps from 4" to 2" is NOT a small decrease:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results

 

[thelefthand]

Thanks for the info. I usually carry a Shield .45 loaded with HST 230 grain +P. I look forward to your results. That being said, 13" to 17 1/2" with a bullet that's already .45 caliber ain't bad. 230 grain bullets are always my choice, regardless of design. They seem to penetrate better than 185s, and penetration is much more important than expansion.

I had some that penetrated a little deeper actually. But the hsts weren't too bad. I think the plus P version will be just the ticket. Now that Barnes projectile it was impressive in every format that I tested it in. That has become my standard carry load for all my 45s. I have one more set of tests that I want to run that include some hard ball and some corbon DPX along with those + p hsts. After that a friend of mine is putting all the information together. I'd be glad to provide it to you if you'd like.

 

[churchmouse]

I had some that penetrated a little deeper actually. But the hsts weren't too bad. I think the plus P version will be just the ticket. Now that Barnes projectile it was impressive in every format that I tested it in. That has become my standard carry load for all my 45s. I have one more set of tests that I want to run that include some hard ball and some corbon DPX along with those + p hsts. After that a friend of mine is putting all the information together. I'd be glad to provide it to you if you'd like.

I would love to see this.

 

[Route 45]

I would love to see this.

 

[thelefthand]

When it's done, I'll try to make sure and post a link to it on this thread. I tested just about every "premium" hp I could think of so hopefully it's useful.

 

[Trigger Time]

Buy a gun, or preferably gunS. Learn to use your gun or gunS by getting good in person training from industry recognized trainers or trainers who have some type of real world experience that makes their opinion and methods applicable. Shoot the **** out of your Guns (tools) and you will be as good as what you put the effort and ammo and training, into it to be.
Give me a piece of **** Hipoint and within a few mags I'll be shooting that gun as best as it will possibly shoot within its capabilities, not because it's a good gun but because I know and practice the fundamentals and repeat. Every shooter that wants to carry a gun for self defense should treat it like the life or death responsibility it is.
YouTube is not training

 

[actaeon277]

Buy a gun, or preferably gunS. Learn to use your gun or gunS by getting good in person training from industry recognized trainers or trainers who have some type of real world experience that makes their opinion and methods applicable. Shoot the **** out of your Guns (tools) and you will be as good as what you put the effort and ammo and training, into it to be.
Give me a piece of **** Hipoint and within a few mags I'll be shooting that gun as best as it will possibly shoot within its capabilities, not because it's a good gun but because I know and practice the fundamentals and repeat. Every shooter that wants to carry a gun for self defense should treat it like the life or death responsibility it is.
YouTube is not training

This sounds good to me.

 

[actaeon277]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Trigger Time again.

 

[churchmouse]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Trigger Time again.

I put a +10 on his board.
He is right.

 

[1775usmarine]

I was no expert shooter by any means while in. I got screwed over a few points for sharpshooter but as a range coach the last few months I was in I was able to teach 9 shooters enough that they became first-time experts. You don't have to be a world class shooter to teach others you just need to apply the fundamentals of shooting and anybody with a one practice can be good with anything.