Subcompact beats full size...according to friend

[rhino]

The two range buddies playing their domination/submission game is not interesting to me.

I have seen people shoot a G26 better than a G17, G19, or G34. In each case, the person was shooting low and left with the bigger gun, but dead-on with the G26. I don't think any differences in inherent accuracy or sight radius played any role whatsoever. What I observed in those examples is that the shooters' pinkie fingers were not able to apply any force to the grip on the G26, so when they shot they couldn't twist the gun low and left as they were pressing the trigger. It helped prevent them from disturbing the alignment of the gun before the bullet exited the muzzle.

I have seen a similar thing happen when people have trouble shooting with one hand. I have them remove their pinkie from the grip and suddenly they're hitting the target. Then you know where at least part of the problem originates and you can take corrective actions.

 

[ru44mag]

The two range buddies playing their domination/submission game is not interesting to me.

I have seen people shoot a G26 better than a G17, G19, or G34. In each case, the person was shooting low and left with the bigger gun, but dead-on with the G26. I don't think any differences in inherent accuracy or sight radius played any role whatsoever. What I observed in those examples is that the shooters' pinkie fingers were not able to apply any force to the grip on the G26, so when they shot they couldn't twist the gun low and left as they were pressing the trigger. It helped prevent them from disturbing the alignment of the gun before the bullet exited the muzzle.

I have seen a similar thing happen when people have trouble shooting with one hand. I have them remove their pinkie from the grip and suddenly they're hitting the target. Then you know where at least part of the problem originates and you can take corrective actions.

I keep envisioning someone drinking tea with there pinking finger sticking out. Do you think that helps them hit their mouth dead center?

 

[88E30M50]

I have also heard the "shorter stiffer barrel" theory in addition to differences in lockup and RSA. I don't know enough to know who's right about the "why" of it.

Don't have enough time on the G41 to comment, but the G30 is still the most accurate Glock I've used.

The 30S is certainly accurate enough, but with its lighter, slimmer slide does not seem to have the gilt-edged accuracy of the standard size 30, and kicks more. I strongly suspect that the extreme rigidity of the short, thick barrel/slide assembly is what gives the G30 its phenomenal accuracy, especially for its size and sight radius.

30 and 30SF are no different that I can see in inherent accuracy, but I like being able to "get more hand around" the SF.

Best,
Mas
​

This was the first reference I had seen from Ayoob but BigTanker found the link where he describes his experience in more detail quoted below.

OK.....I have in my possession a Colt Defender. This has got to be one of the shortest barrel 1911's in 45 ACP I have ever seen/held. 1 1/4"s long. I am going to apply some proper attention/love to the ignition control package. After I am going out to MCF&G to do some non-scientific testing as to whats what. I need some graph paper......you know.....for science.

Don't forget the slide rule and bandaid on the bridge of your shooting glasses. Makes it really scientific.

Was this it?

Massad Ayoob: Are Long-Barreled Handguns More | The Daily Caller

Yup, that was the one I was thinking about.

 

[Route 45]

I have seen people shoot a G26 better than a G17, G19, or G34. In each case, the person was shooting low and left with the bigger gun, but dead-on with the G26. I don't think any differences in inherent accuracy or sight radius played any role whatsoever. What I observed in those examples is that the shooters' pinkie fingers were not able to apply any force to the grip on the G26, so when they shot they couldn't twist the gun low and left as they were pressing the trigger. It helped prevent them from disturbing the alignment of the gun before the bullet exited the muzzle.

I have seen a similar thing happen when people have trouble shooting with one hand. I have them remove their pinkie from the grip and suddenly they're hitting the target. Then you know where at least part of the problem originates and you can take corrective actions.

There is truth here. I could always shoot my G27 better than my G22. I had to really bear down and focus on grip pressure when shooting the Glock 22, to avoid shooting low/left. No such problem with the G27 with the flush baseplate magazine.

 

[churchmouse]

This was the first reference I had seen from Ayoob but BigTanker found the link where he describes his experience in more detail quoted below.



Don't forget the slide rule and bandaid on the bridge of your shooting glasses. Makes it really scientific.



Yup, that was the one I was thinking about.

I have literally torn my house apart looking for my old slide rule.....No Joy.

 

[CraigAPS]

I have literally torn my house apart looking for my old slide rule.....No Joy.

It wasn't next to the abacus???

 

[Runt1122]

The two range buddies playing their domination/submission game is not interesting to me.

I have seen people shoot a G26 better than a G17, G19, or G34. In each case, the person was shooting low and left with the bigger gun, but dead-on with the G26. I don't think any differences in inherent accuracy or sight radius played any role whatsoever. What I observed in those examples is that the shooters' pinkie fingers were not able to apply any force to the grip on the G26, so when they shot they couldn't twist the gun low and left as they were pressing the trigger. It helped prevent them from disturbing the alignment of the gun before the bullet exited the muzzle.

I have seen a similar thing happen when people have trouble shooting with one hand. I have them remove their pinkie from the grip and suddenly they're hitting the target. Then you know where at least part of the problem originates and you can take corrective actions.

This what I have heard as well. I believe Hickock45 has stated this in talking about subcompacts.

 

[rhino]

I keep envisioning someone drinking tea with there pinking finger sticking out. Do you think that helps them hit their mouth dead center?

YES!

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

I have also heard the "shorter stiffer barrel" theory in addition to differences in lockup and RSA. I don't know enough to know who's right about the "why" of it.

Well, I have 5 kids, so my “ssb” must hit the target.

I have literally torn my house apart looking for my old slide rule.....No Joy.

You probably lost it in the 40 day flood. It’s ok, nobody measures in cubits anymore, anyway.

 

[HubertGummer]

No offence CM but
This site needs a Smilie that depicts someone taking a drink and then spitting it out all over his screen...

 

[Vigilant]

The two range buddies playing their domination/submission game is not interesting to me.

I have seen people shoot a G26 better than a G17, G19, or G34. In each case, the person was shooting low and left with the bigger gun, but dead-on with the G26. I don't think any differences in inherent accuracy or sight radius played any role whatsoever. What I observed in those examples is that the shooters' pinkie fingers were not able to apply any force to the grip on the G26, so when they shot they couldn't twist the gun low and left as they were pressing the trigger. It helped prevent them from disturbing the alignment of the gun before the bullet exited the muzzle.

I have seen a similar thing happen when people have trouble shooting with one hand. I have them remove their pinkie from the grip and suddenly they're hitting the target. Then you know where at least part of the problem originates and you can take corrective actions.

TRUTH!!!

As an aside to that, most range buddies will submit to the guy that dominates the conversation with daring do that he did while “in the service”, which I believe to be the case with the OP and his Superine buddy?

 

[rugertoter]

So every time I get into a "discussion", my pal seemed to think that a subcompact of any gun is much better and you can get effective hits down range despite the shorter barrel. I carry a Glock 19 all the time and he has a G26 and he's pretty much implying that the baby Glock is better in every way on the sole fact that it can take all the mags of the bigger guns in a pinch. I shrug at that thought because the odds of you seriously bumping into other compatible mags in the heat of things isn't realistic. He has no full size guns and not even considering them at all.
In context, my friend is a Marine. He's been in combat and has law enforcement experience, but quit a while ago.

Well, if it works for him, then ok. Your choice in a G19 is your choice....nothing more than that to it really.

 

[churchmouse]

It wasn't next to the abacus???

I found the abacus but some of the key beads are missing.....

 

[churchmouse]

No offence CM but
This site needs a Smilie that depicts someone taking a drink and then spitting it out all over his screen...

I can think of a couple of cool new emoty's we need.....

 

[Vigilant]

I found the abacus but some of the key beads are missing.....

Didnt life get soooo much easier for you when they invented mathematics?

 

[churchmouse]

Didnt life get soooo much easier for you when they invented mathematics?

And pencils. They are truly amazing.

 

[Vigilant]

And pencils. They are truly amazing.

Yeah, really is better than drawing with a lump of burnt wood! So I’m told.

 

[Mrmeseeks]

This is exactly why I have my G26 and G29, my 29 is new to me so I do not know how it shoots yet, but my G29 I groups very well at 20 yards apporx. I have the extended mag with sleeve if I want the 19 conversion. I shoot very well with this, just as a well as my large frame 9's.

 

[thelefthand]

I own and shoot full size, compact, and subcompact, and I shoot them all extremely well. A short barrel is no less accurate than a long barrel, and a long sight plane offers no advantage over a short on. It's a matter of trigonometry. The farther the front sight is away from your face the harder it is for your eye to see small changes. People shoot longer, heavier handguns better because the gun is heavier and has a larger moment of inertia. That compensates for poor trigger control and flinches. A full size handgun is easier for a less accurate shooter to shoot than a subcompact. With a subcompact you have to have excellent trigger control or your groups will show it. The longer, heavier handguns generally eat recoil better, which also makes them easier to shoot.

As far as velocity goes, a subcompact gives up a noticeable amount of velocity over a full size. That becomes critical with hollow points because most we're not designed to perform well at the lower impact velocity. I carry a 45 shield, and so far I've only identified two hollow points that work well out of it. One is the Hornady Critical Defense and the other is the Barnes. The regular pressure HST did not perform worth a hoot. I've got some + p but I haven't had a chance to test them yet. I'm hopeful that they will do well.

 

[rhino]

I own and shoot full size, compact, and subcompact, and I shoot them all extremely well. A short barrel is no less accurate than a long barrel, and a long sight plane offers no advantage over a short on. It's a matter of trigonometry. The farther the front sight is away from your face the harder it is for your eye to see small changes. People shoot longer, heavier handguns better because the gun is heavier and has a larger moment of inertia. That compensates for poor trigger control and flinches. A full size handgun is easier for a less accurate shooter to shoot than a subcompact. With a subcompact you have to have excellent trigger control or your groups will show it. The longer, heavier handguns generally eat recoil better, which also makes them easier to shoot.

As far as velocity goes, a subcompact gives up a noticeable amount of velocity over a full size. That becomes critical with hollow points because most we're not designed to perform well at the lower impact velocity. I carry a 45 shield, and so far I've only identified two hollow points that work well out of it. One is the Hornady Critical Defense and the other is the Barnes. The regular pressure HST did not perform worth a hoot. I've got some + p but I haven't had a chance to test them yet. I'm hopeful that they will do well.

Actually, a longer sight radius makes it easier to see deviation of the front end of the gun. A longer distance corresponds to a larger deflection for a given angular deflection. s = l·θ

Do you actually know what moment of inertia is? Moment of inertia involves the geometric distribution of mass, not just the magnitude of the mass. The moment of inertia of a pistol affects primarily rotation/muzzle flip, but I don't see how that affects inherent accuracy.