Taking a knee- Your thoughts

[wtburnette]

Two things:

First people have fought and died for that flag. The flag IS NOT a symbol of the government, but the symbol of our country and our freedom. The current regime has distorted and corrupted their purpose, but that doesn't mean that the flag is a symbol of their perversion, it's a symbol of the greatest country and idea for a country in the world. That's why it deserves respect. I extremely dislike the government we've allowed to form, which strays heavily from it's original intent. That doesn't mean that I don't respect the flag, which to me is a symbol of what our country was originally intended to be.

Secondly, as I've said, I have no problems with people protesting for whatever they want to protest about, just how they're doing it. If they were protesting during a news conference they called and then stating the money and effort they plan to contribute for a solution, that's perfectly fine. But just like the idiots who go out and protest by blocking traffic, you're doing it wrong. If you protest the right way, you draw many more supporters and people who can be sympathetic to your cause. If you protest in an incorrect way or forum, you end up alienating people who might otherwise support you. Like anything else, there are right and wrong ways to do things, I just feel the way they're going about things is wrong and detrimental to their message.

My

 

[SarahG]

I wouldn't do it personally, but don't see an issue with others doing so if that's what they choose to do.

When I was a good bit younger I likely would have thought differently. I didn't like what I saw in the government during my high school years and thus chose to quietly sit during the pledge in class. Looking back it probably wasn't the protest I thought it was, but I think letting people work through their own ideas by not participating is not a bad thing.

To me there is a big difference between a person choosing to sit/kneel/not participate in something of their own accord and someone else demanding a person kneel to a cause. The latter offends me, the former does not.

 

[churchmouse]

The flag is a symbol of our country, and of the regime that controls the government. You may view the government as something deserving of your reverence, but MANY others (including myself) do not.

I encourage people to speak their minds regarding the government. We have been too accommodating of their overreaches for FAR too long. The only issue I have with "taking a knee" as a protest is the ambiguity inherent in the act...the motivation and reasoning behind the act is not (necessarily) clear to those viewing the act. I may very well agree with the motivations behind the act, but how can I be sure I'm picking up the same message the protester is sending?

The backlash against this act is honestly absurd to me...I just cannot get my head around the idea that silently taking a knee is in any way disrespectful.

To me, this looks like another situation where 'conservatives' are allowing themselves to be manipulated by the media they choose to consume.

Can not disagree with a lot what you say here but "Paul" please. I am not being manipulated by anything save my heart. Those kneeling are doing it is a situation that is not the stage for such things. They all could band together on their own time and draw the cameras and do far more good than pushing this up the paying customers asses and disrespecting our flag. The venue is all wrong.

Protest away fellas just do it on "YOUR FREAKING TIME" and not mine. Then I would have a choice as to either paying attention or just moving along here.
I lost 2 Uncles that I still miss terribly for that flag. Soooooo many friends and other family as well so please do not disrespect it in this way. Take your time/your dime/get your other buddy's and set up a protest in the proper fashion. Use "Your" money time and fame.

This is not proper in my mind and media has NADA to do with it past pushing the Narrative.

 

[marvin02]

My biggest problem with many who claim to respect the US flag is that they completely ignore the flag code for their own ends. The flag is often used for advertising, flown improperly (in particular at night with no lighting) and worn as clothing by those who claim to respect it. I once stopped at a used car lot to complain about the fact that their flag was torn and tattered and was so oversized that it was dragging the ground.

I recently saw a truck with two US flags flown from the front corners of the pickup bed. When stopped the flags were hanging on the dirty truck and you could see that they were getting filthy. I am sure the owner/driver thought he was displaying his respect for the flag and making a patriotic statement. What I saw was someone who has no idea what real respect is.

I believe that there are better forms of protest than to kneel during the national anthem, but I also believe that the right to free speech is just as important for those I disagree with as it is for those I agree with.

Everyone has the freedom to react to these protests as they wish and to form their own opinions.

 

[JettaKnight]

It is a free country. Taking a principled stand on an issue (or a principled knee) is a sign of integrity.

But doing things on principle often comes at a cost. Be prepared for that cost and don't ***** about it.

Yeah, I don't like it, I find it disrespectful, but, it is a way to get your message out there...

There's no cause that's ever make me consider this, and I wonder if they were doing it for a different cause, would we see it differently. I dunno.



My biggest worry is, that this will become trendy. We've already seen where the one lone player in a team that stood said she had to think long and hard about it. Is kneeling going to become another red ribbon? (someone else can cue the Kramer's AIDS walk.)

 

[WebSnyper]

It is a free country. Taking a principled stand on an issue (or a principled knee) is a sign of integrity.

But doing things on principle often comes at a cost. Be prepared for that cost and don't ***** about it.

I wouldn't do it personally, but don't see an issue with others doing so if that's what they choose to do.

When I was a good bit younger I likely would have thought differently. I didn't like what I saw in the government during my high school years and thus chose to quietly sit during the pledge in class. Looking back it probably wasn't the protest I thought it was, but I think letting people work through their own ideas by not participating is not a bad thing.

To me there is a big difference between a person choosing to sit/kneel/not participate in something of their own accord and someone else demanding a person kneel to a cause. The latter offends me, the former does not.

I'm pretty much in this camp.

The first amendment doesn't just protect the speech people like or agree with.

And as Tlex stated, in the private sector (which the NFL is, though it has special anti trust exemptions I believe) plan on the possibility of ramifications, especially if you do this while wearing your work uniform, in the workplace, etc. To me it's not much different than how the 2nd amendment should not be infringed by the Govt, but property rights, private sector, etc can set their own "rules".

It's just not something that gets under my skin. It's taking nothing away from me and not infringing on my rights if they do it.

And as Sarah said, as long as it's a choice, I have no issue with it.

I'm not for anyone being shouted down or silenced, etc. I may not agree with someone and how they use speech, but they have a right to say it, and there are plenty in office on both sides of the aisle, who are forgetting that they serve the republic and are sworn to uphold the constitution and want to shout down and stamp out those that don't agree with them.

The demanding that others conform, etc seems to be getting worse on both sides.

 

[BugI02]

The flag is a symbol of our country [I agree], and of the regime that controls the government [This is where you start losing it]. You may view the government as something deserving of your reverence, but MANY others (including myself) do not.

I encourage people to speak their minds regarding the government. We have been too accommodating of their overreaches for FAR too long. The only issue I have with "taking a knee" as a protest is the ambiguity inherent in the act...the motivation and reasoning behind the act is not (necessarily) clear to those viewing the act. I may very well agree with the motivations behind the act, but how can I be sure I'm picking up the same message the protester is sending?

The backlash against this act is honestly absurd to me...I just cannot get my head around the idea that silently taking a knee is in any way disrespectful.

To me, this looks like another situation where 'conservatives' are allowing themselves to be manipulated by the media they choose to consume.

The flag symbolizes the country and its aspirations and ideals. Nobody looks at the stars and stripes and thinks of Trump, they think of America. Your non-Trump choice in November wears a flag pin, shouldn't you be shaming him for that? Or will the election of not-Trump suddenly cleanse it of its sins?

No, all of you cut from that cloth deliberately want to pick something people revere simply for the shock value and to get more attention. Perfect is the enemy of good enough, grow the **** up

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Meh. I thought it was a nothing story from the beginning.

I wouldn’t, but you do you man.

The complete disregard for the Constitution by what feels like most of our elected officials is infinitely more alarming and disrespectful than any kneeling; yet, it gets zero mainstream attention, and even in conservative media, it only gets a small fraction of the coverage.

 

[PaulF]

The flag symbolizes the country and its aspirations and ideals.

Sure it does....to you. That's the problem with iconography, the same symbol can mean something very different to others. To me it symbolizes promises made, but not kept.

Nobody looks at the stars and stripes and thinks of Trump, they think of America.

That's nothing but a deflection...and it carries absolutely no weight. You don't have any idea what anyone thinks about the symbology of the flag unless you ask them...and accept their answer. When I see the flag I don't think about what America can be, or should be...I think of America as it appears to me now.

Your non-Trump choice in November wears a flag pin, shouldn't you be shaming him for that? Or will the election of not-Trump suddenly cleanse it of its sins?

You have been on this forum long enough to know better. Stop it. You well know my view is that the presidency itself is corrupt, and that corruption will not stop with the next office holder. the Federal system, in my view, is hopelessly broken. The same flag on a new lapel? It still stands for the reality off America in the now...both the good and the bad.

No, all of you cut from that cloth deliberately want to pick something people revere simply for the shock value and to get more attention. Perfect is the enemy of good enough, grow the **** up

Having a bad day, bug? This is both totally inappropriate and absolutely off base. The flag is a symbol of America as it is, as well as being a symbol of the America you want. You can be offended and offensive all you want...it doesn't change the fact that your understanding of the symbology is no more valid than mine.

Symbolic meaning is in the eye of the beholder, not the iconographer.

 

[IndyBeerman]

As my brother in law says, I stand for the flag and I kneel at the cross.

Bingo!

 

[jbombelli]

I stand and salute the flag and the anthem, I take a knee for no man.

this.

 

[Tombs]

Sure it does....to you. That's the problem with iconography, the same symbol can mean something very different to others. To me it symbolizes promises made, but not kept.

The flag is an objective symbol. Illiteracy is not an excuse for words to have no meaning or different meanings. It still has a fixed meaning, regardless of feeling or opinions.

 

[PaulF]

The flag is an objective symbol. Illiteracy is not an excuse for words to have no meaning or different meanings. It still has a fixed meaning, regardless of feeling or opinions.

Lol...an objective symbol. That's a good one. You either don't know how symbolism works, or you don't understand objectivity.

Symbols mean what we agree they mean...literally the definition of subjectivity.

Without agreement, symbols mean what we want them to.

A perfect example is the Islamic Crescent. I'm sure your thoughts upon seeing that symbol run to EXACTY the same place as the Islamic faithful...right?

 

[oze]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/07/02/black-national-anthem-colin-kaepernick

Do ya think taking a knee would be tolerated?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Hookeye]

YGBFKM

 

[DoggyDaddy]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/07/02/black-national-anthem-colin-kaepernick

Do ya think taking a knee would be tolerated?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

I am speechless. At least as far as anything I can say on here and not be banned. I keep typing and backspacing. So I'll just abide by what my mom taught me. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. If this **** keeps up, I won't have any sports left to watch.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I guess they're embracing "separate but equal" now. Huh. I remember when that was a sore spot, but apparently it's okay now. So are we going back to "colored only" and "whites only" drinking fountains too? Keep on picking that scab... you're not gonna like the resulting infection.

Tell us again how Trump is the divisive one, all you Never-Trumpers. Looking at you T.Lex.

 

[BugI02]

Sure it does....to you. That's the problem with iconography, the same symbol can mean something very different to others. To me it symbolizes promises made, but not kept.



That's nothing but a deflection...and it carries absolutely no weight. You don't have any idea what anyone thinks about the symbology of the flag unless you ask them...and accept their answer. When I see the flag I don't think about what America can be, or should be...I think of America as it appears to me now.



You have been on this forum long enough to know better. Stop it. You well know my view is that the presidency itself is corrupt, and that corruption will not stop with the next office holder. the Federal system, in my view, is hopelessly broken. The same flag on a new lapel? It still stands for the reality off America in the now...both the good and the bad.



Having a bad day, bug? This is both totally inappropriate and absolutely off base. The flag is a symbol of America as it is, as well as being a symbol of the America you want. You can be offended and offensive all you want...it doesn't change the fact that your understanding of the symbology is no more valid than mine.

Symbolic meaning is in the eye of the beholder, not the iconographer.

All I hear is waah, the United States isn't perfect, hence the Gorshkov quote

When you look at this do you think of Boris Johnson or the shortcomings of the Conservatives, or do you think of America's most reliable friend of the last 150 years. When you look at this do you think of Angela Merkel and Christian Democrats mortaging their future and their souls to Russian gas or do you think of the country built on the ashes of Nazi Germany and how they held out through the Berlin airlift and with the iron curtain virtually on their door step and bravely undertook reunification when the USSR collapsed

I'm sure Kaepernick approves of the sophistry

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I guess they're embracing "separate but equal" now. Huh. I remember when that was a sore spot, but apparently it's okay now. So are we going back to "colored only" and "whites only" drinking fountains too? Keep on picking that scab... you're not gonna like the resulting infection.

Tell us again how Trump is the divisive one, all you Never-Trumpers. Looking at you T.Lex.

*crickets* T.Lex? PaulF? Anybody want to explain this?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/07/02/bl...lin-kaepernick

 

[DoggyDaddy]

That's what I thought.