Talk me into a full auto m16

[avboiler11]

$200 in 1934 would be a bit under $3600 today.

Remove suppressors from NFA, keep the $200 tax for SBR/SBS but make it a 7 day approval/denial process, repeal the Hughes Amendment allowing new manufacture automatics but make the tax on machine guns $5000.

I'd guarantee there'd be plenty of people willing to drop five grand to get a new auto sear...which get registered keeping disarmists happy, and BATFE reaps a windfall in revenues.

 

[Beowulf]

To address the idea of machine guns as an investment, I certainly wouldn't advise that right now. I don't know the market can bear the kind of value jumps we've been seeing. That being said, due to the highly limited supply, I don't think we'll see a market correction like in the housing market. That bubble popped due to bad loans and an excess supply. They aren't making any more transferrables.

I think machine gun owners are safe to assume they'll maintain their value or increase modestly over the next few years. I'm not worried about taking a bath on the ones I have. I sold my M10/45 for more than double what I paid (but I included uppers that were worth $1500 as well). I know I could sell my M16 and my HK sear for at least a few thousand more than I paid just last year as well. Do I think they'll double in value in the next few years? No. Would I be super upset if the Hughes Amendment was removed and the registry opened again? I would be so upset that I would Form 1 the rest of my semi-autos and then worry about how to actually convert them.

 

[phylodog]

I've heard this a lot, but I don't think those people are A) numerous enough to matter and B) actually wealthy enough to matter. In the age of Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Elan Musk, etc, some old guys that are sitting on a few million in automatic weapons are not going to be a heavy tipping point.

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you posted but I think you're giving politicians a bit too much credit. I don't think it takes much to sway their vote one way or the other. Someone sitting on a couple million in full auto could buy most of them for dinner and a trip to the strip club.

 

[Leadeye]

I sold some of mine in the late 90s to help put my kids through college and at the time didn't think that the price would go much higher. Back in 84 before the Hughs amendment was even on the table I felt like the NFA industry was reaching market saturation. With all importer/receiver manufacturers sprouting up there was a growing price division between real and manufactured receiver guns. In some instances there was a quality difference as well. There were some real artists in the business like Doug Offinger and his Browning belt fed guns and there were some real junk sellers like all the Stens we had to fix just to sell them. The real golden years were from about 77-84 when people realized you could buy a MAC with the tax for what you were paying for a Python and there was money to be made. By 81 lots of folks were starting manufacturing and you could get things that had been rare but were now available like MP-40s,Uzi, and Brownings. Colt Thompsons were always the gold standard though, now they are almost too expensive to shoot.

 

[Leadeye]

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you posted but I think you're giving politicians a bit too much credit. I don't think it takes much to sway their vote one way or the other. Someone sitting on a couple million in full auto could buy most of them for dinner and a trip to the strip club.

Having lobbied some politicians to make some money in my life time I can say that it's more complicated than that. You have to work with a connected law firm and they don't care about meals or strippers, it's cash up front. I can say that my company's ROI on the deal was over 20-1.

 

[BogWalker]

On the investing side: while they have gone up in value and will likely continue to do so, there are probably better investments to be made with $25k if the money is all it's about.

Heck, my Lee-Enfields have gained an average $100 increase in average market value in the past two years. Averaging $200 original purchase price that's a 50% increase. (Per data from Gunbroker sold auctions.) Not too shabby .

All joking aside, I really think the personal enjoyment factor is the biggest one in a decision like this. Would you really enjoy it, or are you convincing yourself you'll learn to love it after you see dollar signs accruing?

 

[phylodog]

Having lobbied some politicians to make some money in my life time I can say that it's more complicated than that. You have to work with a connected law firm and they don't care about meals or strippers, it's cash up front. I can say that my company's ROI on the deal was over 20-1.

It's not always more complicated than that. Lots of folks with lots of money and lots of machine guns make lots of donations to campaigns and when they want those favors returned they pick up the phone and make a call.

A legitimate business attempting to lobby is certainly more complicated but the business of politics at the upper levels is a different matter entirely.

 

[Leadeye]

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on that one Phylo.

 

[phylodog]

I can live with that

 

[KJQ6945]

I don't think there are but a handful of people that are so heavily invested in machine guns that it would break them if the market changed. Even if a guy has 50 machine guns, he probably doesn't have them as a nest egg like you or I would.

If I dropped $20K on machine gun, and they did away with the Hughes amendment the following week, I'd be a little upset. The upset would soon be replaced with the realization that I can now buy all of the cool guns made after 1986. Think about how many guns are only post samples, Scar, UMP, MP7, Scorpion, Tavor, etc, etc. my world would change.

 

[CountryBoy19]

You are correct, I don't believe that'll ever happen either. Too many people with money and power would take a substantial hit to their investments.

Many people say that but I haven't seen any people verbally express that stance. Most take the stance of Leadeye's "I would rather watch my 'investment' disappear to have it back to the good ole days"...

 

[phylodog]

Many people say that but I haven't seen any people verbally express that stance. Most take the stance of Leadeye's "I would rather watch my 'investment' disappear to have it back to the good ole days"...

Sure, those who are into firearms and heavily invested. There are many who are heavily invested yet have zero interest in firearms, they stand to gain nothing if machine guns were made available again.

 

[Hop]

As private ownership costs get higher and higher it makes getting an SOT / FFL more reasonable. A buddy of mine did this out West and now runs a classIII rental company inside of a "luxury shooting range" in Oklahoma. I need to make some vacation plans.

 

[Beowulf]

As private ownership costs get higher and higher it makes getting an SOT / FFL more reasonable. A buddy of mine did this out West and now runs a classIII rental company inside of a "luxury shooting range" in Oklahoma. I need to make some vacation plans.

The license itself isn't so bad, but the requirements around shop hours and an official premises for the business are annoying. Plus, with an SOT, you also have to deal with the stupid ITAR fees, even if you have no intention of actually importing or exporting anything, which takes your $500 license and turns it into $3k+ a year.

Still though, when compared to the price of a Colt M16 goverment marked or an HK sear, you could cover your license costs for almost a decade (though insurance would probably each into that a lot as well).

 

[Trigger Time]

I'd be down for a lightning link or the rdias?
But I don't think they are easily found. Not sure. That's an option too if I could find one for A reasonable price. I'm thinking my budget is gonna be around $15k. I'm gonna have to sell guns in my collection to pay for this toy. That's just how it is. I'm not a rich man unfortunately

 

[RobbyMaQ]

What are friends for?

I'm in the same boat, to pull it off I'd have to sell most of my guns. I have considered it several times, but I just can't talk myself into doing it. I think I would be sad if I had a big empty safe with one rifle in it.

Sell the safe and downgrade to a smaller one. Dibs on your old safe.

 

[hmaverick]

we've got to work out that trust I did for you a little huh?

marc

 

[Paul30]

I would not consider them an investment, although they have continued to go up in price, a single election and law passed could very easily make them worthless. That said, the M16 is the most popular FA for a reason. You can put several uppers on it and enjoy different configurations on a single legal lower. They even came out with a belt fed 9mm upper a while back. The .22 conversion kits are much more fun with a M16, as is the 9mm upper with silencer. If I were going to buy one, it would be with the understanding that the price could fall through the floor with a single law being passed, and it would be strictly for personal enjoyment. If I did purchase a machine gun, it would be the M16. The shooters are very expensive as well as the Colts. If you are going to buy it to shoot it, don't waste money on a colt new in the box because you are going to shoot it anyway.

 

[sp3worker]

If we're considering shelling out $25k on one, maybe spend a few hundred to rent one a good number of hours and see if it's something you'd like to do a lot.

I know when I fired one I got bored of it fast. Now, when I fired a registered M1919 I knew that was something I'd like to own some day. Belt feds just get me more than other things.

Get both... that's what I did. I bought my M16 about a year and a half ago and just bought my 1919. After being spoiled with a safe full of post 86 MG's and dropping my licence I couldn't bring myself to be without a belt fed as well as the M16.

 

[sp3worker]

I'd be down for a lightning link or the rdias?
But I don't think they are easily found. Not sure. That's an option too if I could find one for A reasonable price. I'm thinking my budget is gonna be around $15k. I'm gonna have to sell guns in my collection to pay for this toy. That's just how it is. I'm not a rich man unfortunately

Honestly, having previously owning a Lightning Link, I'd advise to get a converted RR instead. A lot less hassle and gives you a bit more versatility in my opinion.