TEOTWAWKI indicators

[MattYagPD01]

FoxNews.com - Record Number of Americans Receiving Food Stamp Benefits

The next bubble - land (farmlands will increase in price) (acres, prices) - Rural and Small Town Living -Relocation, moving, countryside, farms, health, schools... - City-Data Forum

Consumer Price Inflation: The Wolf at the Door

I'd say we are well on our way if not right up against it. We're in a sinking ship but most aboard haven't the foggiest clue whats going on. I guess that makes us the rats scurrying out of the ship as it takes on water, huh?

How about we become the engineer that say's to the passengers 'look, here is the water... it is rising .... do you see it? ok... now that you see it, you need to get a life jacket, (and a few thousand rounds of your favorite plug the looter caliber round).

BUT..

it is hard to get the public to pay attention to us crazy's unless we have a pattern or idea, like you just showed (<-is that a word?) us. So... what is your idea or pattern or ...

M

 

[Cpt Caveman]

it is hard to get the public to pay attention to us crazy's unless we have a pattern or idea, like you just showed (<-is that a word?) us. So... what is your idea or pattern or ...

Folks don't wanna listen to a guy that tells them things might get bad. You're the buzz killer, you know, a wet blanket. " Every party has a pooper thats why we invited you!"
Most of the folks I've talked to about being ready for economic/social collapse looked at me like they just realized I was retarded. I've tried repeatedly to wake up the ones in my immediate sphere of influence but those that I don't plan on feeding get gentle nudges for a while , an occasional e-mail, then they are on their own.
I can't make 'em make good choices.
As far as indicators go I think that one that most people forget is rising crime rates. When folks have been without jobs for too long, can't feed their kids and have nothing to lose, they are gonna do what they have to to keep body and soul together.
Bank runs / lines will be an indicator too. As well as rising cost of food.
We are there as far as I'm concerned. I hate it but folks are just numb to it .

 

[DanO]

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level. And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.


LTC Dave Grossman - "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs"

 

[longbow]

the bond market did some screwy things in the last 36 hours........

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Our short term debt has far exceeded our GNP and is coming due. The way our markets are, NO ONE really wants to renew them.....this has ALWAYS been the end EVERY time it has happened throughout history, Rome for example.....Babylon.....and now the 5th coming of the great nation of Babylon (some say it is New York city)........

 

[MattYagPD01]

the bond market did some screwy things in the last 36 hours........

Yes sir it has... now ... how do we tie that to Real Life and make is 'main stream?'


That is the core to this... how do we as the 'crazy's' save lives? Even if we just help our neighbors to learn to save some food or to go to the range with the snow falling.... it will take more then a few of us typing to make a difference when hot lead is the 'Mcdonalds Special of the Day'.

M

 

[ThrottleJockey]

That is the core to this... how do we as the 'crazy's' save lives? Even if we just help our neighbors to learn to save some food or to go to the range with the snow falling.... it will take more then a few of us typing to make a difference when hot lead is the 'Mcdonalds Special of the Day'.

I for one don't care about those too stupid to read the writing on the wall. The law of natural selection will always prevail and it seems as though it is time for a culling. Anyone so blind as to follow the leader and call us "crazies, nutjobs, conspiracy nuts, etc..." deserve exactly what they've got coming. They are tiny minded simpletons, sheep, ignorant consumers, and are a BIG part of the problem. Without them, the free thinking will once again rule the world and shape the future the way it was meant to be in the first place. Those people are the ones that the slave traders are breeding through welfare, affirmative action and the GI bill.

 

[strahd71]

i agree with Mr. ThrottleJockey to an extent, a large extent actually. but for me the difference is, it's not that i dont care about those that arent willing (you notice i used willing not able) its just i cant help everyone. just like the government can not be all things to all people and was never designed to be. i have friends that i love dearly that if things go bad will be in rough shape. even though we have discussed being prepared and they all think its a great idea but yet they have no guns, water, food etc.
i hate dealing with this "if things get bad i'm coming to your house" that would be great if your prepared and actually going to be able to contribute something but...... i've got my own family to deal with. and the fact is my preps arent very good either! its something we are working on though.

i saw on fox news the other day several economist saying that we still have NOT gotten to the bad part! the mortgage crisis is not resolved, millions are still loosing their homes, the unemplyment rate is still near 10%, gas is creeping back to the $3 mark they say by the end if the year, remember what happened to the economy the last time that gas went that high?, we have millions of illegals here, and if we think hard about history we went to war in the revelutionary and the civil wars over less government infringment than we have right now, much less at that.

the point i am making is this. the indicators are there right now, and it wouldnt take much to set things off. i dont want it to happen, but it looks to be happening around us.

jake

 

[longbow]

I reached out to two new neighbors in the area this week. Interesting times. As I have said before, ask me at the end of January 2011.

 

[longbow]

Take this into account.

Friend X raises 40 cattle and sells/uses for food about 15 per year. It use to pay for gifts for his kids and keep the operation going. His increased feed and expenses forced him to sell 25 cattle this year to pay for what prices have increased in the last 15 months.

Next year he is starting with 15 cattle and will sell about 5 to 7 and will have to purchase some young ones to build up his stock. He already said beef prices will be higher next year. He is moving from a profit operation to a feed his family and kids farming operation. I can tell you alot of small farms are already moving this way.

We are all going to be paying even higher beef prices next year.

 

[strahd71]

well when the population, is homeless, hungry, unemployed (having a job might not help much) and gas is outrageous again..... its gonna get ugly quick

jake

 

[Bill B]

Indicators?
1.) Quantative easing...The Federal Reserve purchases large amounts of government debt, thereby "creating" money.
2.) Devalution of the dollar combined with loss of dollars status as the international trading currency.
3.) When nations stop buying securities and begin buying metals.

All these are happening right now and we are on the edge and it could go either way.
If you haven't prepared already, buy staples and make a plan.

Magnitude? If we do over the edge it'll be huge, international

Duration? 12 months plus.

 

[MattYagPD01]

Indicators?
1.) Quantative easing...The Federal Reserve purchases large amounts of government debt, thereby "creating" money.
2.) Devalution of the dollar combined with loss of dollars status as the international trading currency.
3.) When nations stop buying securities and begin buying metals.

All these are happening right now and we are on the edge and it could go either way.
If you haven't prepared already, buy staples and make a plan.

Magnitude? If we do over the edge it'll be huge, international

Duration? 12 months plus.

QE2 was ... to put it in a small family's frame of thought.. is like taking your visa and paying off your mastercard, then telling your wife "hey, look, i have this mastercard to with no balance, lets buy the things we need (but acutally just want) with it." In terms of the Government the effect is inflation. The Government must either raise interest rates to stem inflation or allow the inflation to continue to be able to pay off the debt it has incurred without really 'paying' off the debt at the 'value' it agreed too. This is what the Weimar Republic did in between WWI and WWII. As to point 3, nations have always purchased metals as a hedge durring hard times. The indicator of US Government default will start with the rise in T-Bill interest rates offered by the US government. This will be followed by bank runs that will cause the Government to print more to pay off the 200,000 guarenteed by the FDIC (Also lowering the value). This will drive the individuals on fixed incomes to the Food Lines (unemployment, retirement). As people realize the complete loss of value (or faith in a Fiat Currency) they will rush to put their money into anything of solid value that they percieve. This will SUPERHEAT the ecconomy. Anything of value will sell faster then crap. At this point, if you havent baught your hideyhole, you better be diggin a hole... im just sayin.....

At this point, it is up to the faits... but... the purpose of this thread was to find identifiers of TEOTWAWKI, not debate the end and it's potential directions. So....

Identifiers for you are what? QE2?

 

[Bill B]

QE3 seems to be expressly designed to keep t-bill rates low.
We are also now financing other countries debt with our debt.
China no longer wants dollars, how long before other majr economies go the same way?

 

[Cpt Caveman]

Eeyup.

The demise of the dollar - Business News, Business - The Independent

 

[ATOMonkey]

QE2 was ... to put it in a small family's frame of thought.. is like taking your visa and paying off your mastercard, then telling your wife "hey, look, i have this mastercard to with no balance, lets buy the things we need (but acutally just want) with it." In terms of the Government the effect is inflation. The Government must either raise interest rates to stem inflation or allow the inflation to continue to be able to pay off the debt it has incurred without really 'paying' off the debt at the 'value' it agreed too. This is what the Weimar Republic did in between WWI and WWII. As to point 3, nations have always purchased metals as a hedge durring hard times. The indicator of US Government default will start with the rise in T-Bill interest rates offered by the US government. This will be followed by bank runs that will cause the Government to print more to pay off the 200,000 guarenteed by the FDIC (Also lowering the value). This will drive the individuals on fixed incomes to the Food Lines (unemployment, retirement). Leading to Price Controls to battle the effects of inflation on necessary items. This will lead to major financial losses in the private sector. The "cure" for this will be more subsidy (and inflation) or simply nationalizing necessity production as private industry goes out of business. As people realize the complete loss of value (or faith in a Fiat Currency) they will rush to put their money into anything of solid value that they percieve. This will SUPERHEAT the ecconomy. Anything of value will sell faster then crap. At this point, if you havent baught your hideyhole, you better be diggin a hole... im just sayin.....

At this point, it is up to the faits... but... the purpose of this thread was to find identifiers of TEOTWAWKI, not debate the end and it's potential directions. So....

Identifiers for you are what? QE2?

Fleshed it out a bit more for ya. Can't have runaway inflation without price controls. They go hand in hand.

 

[Cpt Caveman]

Here's a link to an article packed full of interesting info most folks don't want to know. Takes a while to get through if you check out all the sources.

Neithercorp Press Blog Archive From Bad To Worse: The Economy Today, And Tomorrow

A quote

"Whether or not you believe that we are facing a double dip, or that we are caught in one long economic death spiral, one must ask the question: where did all that bailout money go that was supposed to stop this? Recently, we received a pittance of a glimpse at the Federal Reserve balance sheet for part of the stimulus program. What little data was made public was not comforting…
If you thought that stimulus packages from the Fed would actually go into the U.S. economy, you were greatly mistaken. The largest recipients of bailout dollars from the Federal Reserve (paid for with your tax dollars) were FOREIGN BANKS. That’s right, the liquidity injections that have put the very health of the dollar at risk and stoked a growing trade and currency war across the planet did not even go towards the economy in which you live! Overseas banks such as UBS and Barclays received the largest portion of the $3.3 trillion in emergency stimulus that was outlined in documentation the Fed was forced to release due to lawsuit..."


Its rather obvious TPTB don't want to fix the problems they have caused. They want to continue making money and that is their bottom line.
I figure we'll probably get through this winter with most folks successfully keeping their heads in the proverbial sand. But next year, especially next fall, I think we'll see a bit more of what our "new normal" is gonna be.

The commercial real estate market is gonna crash before too long and the ramifications of all the "need to be but yet haven't been foreclosed on" homes on the bank's books is gonna mess things up even further. I 'm really more concerned about what the dirty boogers that run things will do to keep things going than I am about the ramifications of how it affects our economy.

Now, back to the OP....TEOTWAWKI indicators....

The indicators are pretty clear to me. I see them.( listed above ) I can't predict the future as to exactly when, but its coming. I believe for me its already occurred. The end of the world as I know it happened when BO was elected president.
Get yer heads up out of the sand and get ready folks.....

 

[M2A2]

I saw a show on the history channel ...blah blah blah.. interview with the experts..And what I came away with was as soon as the people miss 9 meals thats three DAYS! thats when the crap will hit the fan..The mass are hungry.. they will go and look for food.

 

[MattYagPD01]

I saw a show on the history channel ...blah blah blah.. interview with the experts..And what I came away with was as soon as the people miss 9 meals thats three DAYS! thats when the crap will hit the fan..The mass are hungry.. they will go and look for food.

Kind of makes you wonder why the government under Bush had the whole 'grab bag' thing (with duct tape) for ... how long was the time frame? 48 hours was it?

 

[MattYagPD01]

Fleshed it out a bit more for ya. Can't have runaway inflation without price controls. They go hand in hand.

Very Nice.