Terrorists massacre magazine office staffers

[T.Lex]

Charlie Hebdo: French Satire Magazine's Shocking Covers (Photos) - The Daily Beast

They were pretty well known for being THE source for controversial satire. They covered the whole gamut of views, too... not just the one that's the topic of today's event.

Notable that the Pope was a frequent topic of the satire, too. Which makes sense, of course. Wonder how many times the Swiss Guards attacked the paper....

 

[crispy]

I guess I don't understand the point of dragging political gun control issues in it, particularly when it seems like the method of attack could have probably been just as successful stateside.

Reports are they had a rocket launcher

The point being that those guns were BANNED in France. If you ban guns, attacks like this can't happen... according to Piers...

 

[T.Lex]

***Breaking:

French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve is currently giving a statement. He says that the authorities are hunting three attackers in connection with the shooting.

THAT is interesting. Two shooters and a driver?

 

[jwh20]

Perhaps the exploration of this idea is better in a different thread, but I'm curious - how is islamofascism like Marxism or Socialism. I totally get the point that fascism - either in the form of Islamic or Nazi extremism - is a political movement where oppressive brutality is a key feature.

Rather, the Marxism/Socialism reference is what confuses me. To the extent those are separate things, it is more about economics and social evolution. The state does become more powerful, but not necessarily brutally so. The gov'ts closest to classical socialism are not particularly violent.

But, that's pretty much a derail.

Thoughts and prayers to our French cousins - literally and figuratively.

We need only to view the results of Marxist and Socialist experiments to see the similarities. By the way, I consider Marxism, Socialism, and Communism to be different names for the same ideology. As horrific as the extermination of enemies of the Nazi was, and Jew were NOT the only victims, Stalin in the guise of Marx/Social/Commun-ism slaughtered MORE. Some say as many as 25 million. How many did Mao slaughter in his "cleansing" of his utopian Communist Chine murder? (We really don't know but it may have been as many as 100 million men, women, and children.)

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Several outlets now reporting Charlie Hebdo attackers told witnesses they were from "al-Qaeda" in Yemen

Granted, with how organized they seemed, you would think they were ISIS-trained.

Earnest says French attack was an act of terror, but says WH is waiting on what the motivation was.

 

[printcraft]

 

[Destro]

they were probably assured that there was very little risk of their plan being derailed due to any armed citizen in the office where they attacked.

If only somebody with an 8 hour NRA class and a J frame had been working...then maybe they would have taken their AK's and RPG's home.

They executed a police officer in front of the office, I doubt they cared if anybody was armed or not.

 

[Destro]

Several outlets now reporting Charlie Hebdo attackers told witnesses they were from "al-Qaeda" in Yemen

Granted, with how organized they seemed, you would think they were ISIS-trained.

Earnest says French attack was an act of terror, but says WH is waiting on what the motivation was.

Hollande and Cameron already called it one, we'll be waiting on an OSHA investigation for official word from the white house

 

[GNRPowdeR]

Wondering how this event is a Political Discussion?
Serious question.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Nor is it general firearms.

It's far more geo-political than anything else. But I crave a "Current Events/Breaking News" sub-forum

 

[jwh20]

If only somebody with an 8 hour NRA class and a J frame had been working...then maybe they would have taken their AK's and RPG's home.

They executed a police officer in front of the office, I doubt they cared if anybody was armed or not.

I'm just saying it seems to have been well planned and executed. If you were planning such an operation wouldn't you consider potential threats and risks? So if YOU had been there and been armed, would you have just let them shoot you or would you have defended yourself even though you might still have died due to what appears to have been significant force and firepower?

I think you are trying to make the argument that self-defense is pointless since your probability of defending yourself against a better trained adversary is nil.

 

[T.Lex]

We need only to view the results of Marxist and Socialist experiments to see the similarities. By the way, I consider Marxism, Socialism, and Communism to be different names for the same ideology. As horrific as the extermination of enemies of the Nazi was, and Jew were NOT the only victims, Stalin in the guise of Marx/Social/Commun-ism slaughtered MORE. Some say as many as 25 million. How many did Mao slaughter in his "cleansing" of his utopian Communist Chine murder? (We really don't know but it may have been as many as 100 million men, women, and children.)

I'll make one more point on this derail branch, then we can further discuss it elsewhere.

Hitler/Stalin/Mao are examples of fascism. Each of them came to power under different "-isms." (Stalin and Mao might superficially be lumped together as socialist, but the reality is far different.) Contemporary examples of Marxist communism/socialism government structures are typically not marked by the brutality of the examples you give. At least, not yet.

You are more than welcome to the last word.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

But I crave a "Current Events/Breaking News" sub-forum

I agree with you on this, but this is a "firearms in the news" situation, so couldn't it be considered a General Firearms Discussion topic more than a Political Discussion? Just how my mind works...

Mods are obviously welcome to do what they will, but a "Breaking News" could become more useful with how the Geo-Political climate is changing.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Edit: Car on fire due to mechanical fault.

Gotta love the 24hr cycle during these sorts of events.

 

[miguel]

Sylvain should have shot back!

 

[T.Lex]

If only somebody with an 8 hour NRA class and a J frame had been working...then maybe they would have taken their AK's and RPG's home.

They executed a police officer in front of the office, I doubt they cared if anybody was armed or not.

I also doubt they cared whether anyone was armed - they likely would have attacked regardless. I think the relevant counterpoints are:
1) Given the legal framework, they were almost guaranteed that no one - even the first responding police - would be armed. Tactically, they knew they had an advantage.
2) One guy with a J frame would have created a tactically different environment for the attackers, which would have changed the way the attack played out. Six guys with J frames, and a couple more with Glocks, arriving at different times... maybe the bad guys hunker down, instead of getting away.

No way to know, of course. But, looking at how some of the "lone wolf" style attacks have gone in the US does provide some evidence from which to identify the variables.

 

[spencer rifle]

Not much of an explosion - more like a Pinto.

 

[T.Lex]

Oh, just saw this:

US President Barack Obama has condemned the Paris attack and what he calls "the hateful vision of these killers".

Lame. I mean totally, vapidly, uninspiringly lame.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Oh, just saw this:


Lame. I mean totally, vapidly, uninspiringly lame.

"Now watch this drive."

But honestly, there isn't much he can do. He says he offers France any assistance they need. There's little to be done about surprise attacks like this. There's no law he could pass to make everyone in the world happy. Extremists will always exist

 

[caverjamie]

If only somebody with an 8 hour NRA class and a J frame had been working...then maybe they would have taken their AK's and RPG's home.

They executed a police officer in front of the office, I doubt they cared if anybody was armed or not.

I think there are still lessons to be learned here in terms of gun related laws and policies. Unarmed police officers? I think that paradigm is incompatible with the world we live in today. Maybe a civilian could have stopped one or more of them, maybe they would have been another victim. I'd like to be able to make that choice myself rather than someone decide it for me, but that's a whole thread in itself.

I so hope they catch these guys before they hurt anyone else.