The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 3: Money Pit Anonymous

[jeffsqartan]

I don't remember which ones I have otherwise I might take you up on it. I'm going to confirm this weekend and may head that way next week if I have the wrong ones.

I'll let you know if there are any spindles left tomorrow.

 

[churchmouse]

It's not just "not fixing anything". Under some conditions, it can be harmful.

Oil formulations contain as one of their ingredients an anti-foaming additive (a surfactant that reduces surface tension). I've seen some testing that suggest LOT can reduce the margin against foaming at higher rates of shear.

If you want to see this for yourself, put some fresh oil in a blender at low speed for 10 seconds or so. Then add the Lucas and repeat the test. Notice how much lighter the color will be. What is that? It's entrained air causing the air to become emulsified and creating the lighter color.


A critical application like a race engine is the LAST place (IME) I would use an oil additive.

If you want more "cling" to oil parts, step up to a Group V oil that is Polyester or Polyolester based, or go up to a higher viscosity-- or both.

I'm not a tribologist like Bobzilla apparently is, but I do engines for a living. And I agree entirely with his negativity about aftermarket additives. (With one notable exception that I personally use) FWIW.


JH

Having lost a couple of race engines due to oil foam or "Milk shaking" I see the point.
Never ever used additives in anything performance based. Mobile 1 synthetic was the go to.
We had a Superflo oil sponsor on the GTP Corvette. They supplied us with a crap load of oil. Cases of the stuff. In all weights. No one in the shop paid for oil while they were with us. The stuff was OK in a daily driver.
We found on the Dyno their oil would "Milk Shake". That is where I coined that term. After a hard extended pull the oil looked like a damned milk shake. The rods/mains showed it as well. Never occurred with the Mobile 1. So we would dump a couple of cases of oil into a container. Then we would fill the SuperFlo bottles with Mobil 1. That way when the guys from SuperFlo came to the trailer at the track it looked like life was beautiful. Then they wanted a sample of the oil after a session. That was the end of our affiliation with SuperFlo. I have never seen the product line again. Man they were pi$$ed off.

This car...The black/white #52
https://www.conceptcarz.com/z27188/chevrolet-corvette-gtp.aspx

And here...
https://pitstopradio.net/2018/08/30...ight-road-racing-salute-at-pennzoil-autofair/

 

[femurphy77]

Having lost a couple of race engines due to oil foam or "Milk shaking" I see the point.
Never ever used additives in anything performance based. Mobile 1 synthetic was the go to.
We had a Superflo oil sponsor on the GTP Corvette. They supplied us with a crap load of oil. Cases of the stuff. In all weights. No one in the shop paid for oil while they were with us. The stuff was OK in a daily driver.
We found on the Dyno their oil would "Milk Shake". That is where I coined that term. After a hard extended pull the oil looked like a damned milk shake. The rods/mains showed it as well. Never occurred with the Mobile 1. So we would dump a couple of cases of oil into a container. Then we would fill the SuperFlo bottles with Mobil 1. That way when the guys from SuperFlo came to the trailer at the track it looked like life was beautiful. Then they wanted a sample of the oil after a session. That was the end of our affiliation with SuperFlo. I have never seen the product line again. Man they were pi$$ed off.

This car...The black/white #52
https://www.conceptcarz.com/z27188/chevrolet-corvette-gtp.aspx

And here...
https://pitstopradio.net/2018/08/30...ight-road-racing-salute-at-pennzoil-autofair/

You'd have thought that a heart felt "Yes we use nothing but the best" as you poured oil from one of their bottles would have made them happy!!

 

[femurphy77]

I'll let you know if there are any spindles left tomorrow.

Well naturally I have the later spindles, hopefully they won't be too difficult to move since they were from a cobra and they come with rotors and calipers.

 

[ZachJ03]

You can use the later stuff but you have to use an aftermarket k member. If you try to use the later stuff as is you get some really funky bump steer issues. I'm going to be converting my 89 convert hopefully this winter and have the stuff but don't remember which spindles I ended up with. Hopefully they're the 4/5.

I actually just completed a 5 lug swap/disk brake conversion and upgrade on my 89 GT. I went with 94-95 spindles as I read that 96-up will set the wheels out farther.

 

[femurphy77]

I actually just completed a 5 lug swap/disk brake conversion and upgrade on my 89 GT. I went with 94-95 spindles as I read that 96-up will set the wheels out farther.

This also. I didn't mention it because it can be dealt with when you get your 5 lug wheels with the right back space or flares as Jeff S is planning. The bump steer issue is huge here because the difference in rack height between the early and late is over an inch and it's unpossible to correct even with offset rack bushings and bump steer kits. It's so severe that even moderate body roll will destroy your toe in and that's always in an entertaining ride at 80 or 90 + thru a long sweeper.

 

[churchmouse]

This also. I didn't mention it because it can be dealt with when you get your 5 lug wheels with the right back space or flares as Jeff S is planning. The bump steer issue is huge here because the difference in rack height between the early and late is over an inch and it's unpossible to correct even with offset rack bushings and bump steer kits. It's so severe that even moderate body roll will destroy your toe in and that's always in an entertaining ride at 80 or 90 + thru a long sweeper.

I just had a serious pucker thinking about this.
Is there no way to modify/correct this issue.

 

[thunderchicken]

I just had a serious pucker thinking about this.
Is there no way to modify/correct this issue.

We had a set of AJE spindles onbthe Tbird with a custom K member that lowered the rack 1.5". We had the same issue not being able to get the bump steer correct. However, we contacted Darin Sanders at Fast Chassis racecars. And he has a jig and was able to modify the AJE spindles so that we could fix the bump steer. They worked very well

 

[thunderchicken]

Also since the foxbody rack basically just bolts onto two tubes welded to the K member, it might be possible to cut them off add a spacer and relocate the rack mounts and make a new lower steering shaft. Just a thought

 

[ZachJ03]

This also. I didn't mention it because it can be dealt with when you get your 5 lug wheels with the right back space or flares as Jeff S is planning. The bump steer issue is huge here because the difference in rack height between the early and late is over an inch and it's unpossible to correct even with offset rack bushings and bump steer kits. It's so severe that even moderate body roll will destroy your toe in and that's always in an entertaining ride at 80 or 90 + thru a long sweeper.

You know, I am using all the spacers that came with my Team Z bumpsteer kit and the outter tie rod is still angled up pretty good where it meets the spindle. The car doesn’t seem to get pulled around on the road though.

 

[thunderchicken]

You know, I am using all the spacers that came with my Team Z bumpsteer kit and the outter tie rod is still angled up pretty good where it meets the spindle. The car doesn’t seem to get pulled around on the road though.

If the bump steer is close with the spacers but just not quite enough, an option is to drill out the spindle to accept a grade 8 bolt instead of the taper fit (tie rod end) and add a small additional spacer. Just remember to either drill the bolt to accept a cotter pin or use blue loctight with a new nylock or shake proof squeeze nut. Done that before. Just keep in mind it has to be close with the kit first because it is possible to put too long of a bolt it. If the bolt is too long it will create problems when driving and will be scary as F.

 

[ZachJ03]

Here is a pic of it.

 

[thunderchicken]

If the rack needs to be lower in the car another option would be to make some spacers and place them on top of the K member mounts so the whole a K member is lowered. That will alloe the rack to be lowered without any permanent modification. Done that before too. With the 588 BBF with a pan supposed to fit in the foxbody we had to drop the K member 1" to make the geometry right. That was before we went to the dry sump which required the custom K and modified spindles. Funny we only ran that for two years and then cut up the car anf went from a backhalf to full tube chassis. Dang we spent some serious coin on upgrades over the years lol

 

[thunderchicken]

Here is a pic of it.

Even thought it has some serious angle, it has to be really close to right. The whole idea of correcting bump steer is to make the tie rod and lower control arm track in the same arch of motion to keep the tie from changing. IF it has any change in to as it moves thtough its arch, you want it to toe in...never out, and only a couple thousandths max. But try to get as close to 0 as possible.

 

[thunderchicken]

Here is a pic of it.

My concern in the picture would be that the heim joint doesn't look to have very much thread left going into the adjuster sleeve. Also the angle that it puts the ball of the heim joint in. Just going to a high misalignment heim joint and making a longer adjuster sleeve might be enough to correct to issue

 

[ZachJ03]

Appreciate the info. The car drives fine down the road but I’ve just thought that angle on the tie rod looks odd. Couldn’t believe it used up all the spacers and still was angled like that. Sounds like a pretty narly set up you had there!

 

[ZachJ03]

Googling it now. I wasn’t even aware that they made a high misalignment heim joint.

 

[jeffsqartan]

I picked up two spindles and caliper brackets for $70 this morning. Was gonna get a-arms but didn't have the time or energy.
I'll end up going with sn95 length arms when I put coil overs on, which will be awhile.
I never got to find that other sn95 on the lot, so I'm not sure what's on it still.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[thunderchicken]

Appreciate the info. The car drives fine down the road but I’ve just thought that angle on the tie rod looks odd. Couldn’t believe it used up all the spacers and still was angled like that. Sounds like a pretty narly set up you had there!

Yeah, I have been around a foxbody or two. Again don't worry about if the angle looks crazy, just make sure it travels in the same arch as the control arm.
Yeah we have had some pretty gnarly set ups over the years. Fixing stuff the OEM manufacturer never dreamed up is part of the obstacles.

 

[thunderchicken]

I picked up two spindles and caliper brackets for $70 this morning. Was gonna get a-arms but didn't have the time or energy.
I'll end up going with sn95 length arms when I put coil overs on, which will be awhile.
I never got to find that other sn95 on the lot, so I'm not sure what's on it still.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Where did you score the spindles?