The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[sbcman]

that is a good point. Gotta get those magazine wells out there for the public to see. It kind of got me since Glock took home the #1 spot with S&W coming in a very close 2nd that ESP would take the #1 spot.Even though Smith probably took a majority share of the SSR and ESR category I would have thought Springfield would place higher in the percentages. Fantastic to see so many there were valid license holders, though.... they should have had a graph for how many are from a Kommie state like Illinois so we know they have no real choice in the matter

I would be surprised if any gun in ESR/SSR wasn't a Smith. Somebody migth have had a Ruger in there, but all the DCs, 1st and 2nds shot Smiths.

At the majors I've shot this year, all but one ESP DC was held by a shooter shooting an M&P9 outfitted with SSS magwell and bases (same rig I run). Glocks took SSP, at all but 1 major, where the M&P9 won.

Somebody looked over the stats at nats and made the point that there seems to be no real competitive advantage between the ESP and SSP classes or, put another way, plastic and metal guns. Bob Vogel, for example, beat everyone with a service Glock. I think the ESP Nat Champ was won with an M&P9. The person reviewing that material thought that IDPA should do away with the SSP/ESP since it doesn't seem to matter if some guys run metal guns. I don't have a dog in that race, but I thought it was interesting. The problem is that you really can't compare differences in classes by one match. Yes, Vogel shot plastic, but not everyone (in fact, probably no one right now) shoots like Vogel.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I've seen some USPSA matches where Vogel is shooting his Limited Glock in Open and kicking some serious rear...which officially classifies him as Senior Phenom! It is funny, on the Vogel note, because guys on the 1911 forums were going berserk because he shoots a Glock instead of the 1911 that he used to. It was funny to watch

I think there should be an ESP category but maybe for the .40/10mm guns. It might make it more like USPSA where there is Major and Minor power but everybody that shoots SSP is probably running a 9mm 10 to 1 versus .40. Give the .40/10mm guys a category/division and leave CDP as the .45 cal division.

In giving Brad Edens official props, I figured a majority of the ESP shooters were running Springfield's with the bells and whistles on them as opposed to what most would consider 'standard SSP guns' like the Glock and M&P.

 

[Grelber]

So what are you.trying to say here?

And somewhere, in the distance, a dog barked . . . .

 

[sbcman]

I've seen some USPSA matches where Vogel is shooting his Limited Glock in Open and kicking some serious rear...which officially classifies him as Senior Phenom! It is funny, on the Vogel note, because guys on the 1911 forums were going berserk because he shoots a Glock instead of the 1911 that he used to. It was funny to watch

I think there should be an ESP category but maybe for the .40/10mm guns. It might make it more like USPSA where there is Major and Minor power but everybody that shoots SSP is probably running a 9mm 10 to 1 versus .40. Give the .40/10mm guys a category/division and leave CDP as the .45 cal division.

In giving Brad Edens official props, I figured a majority of the ESP shooters were running Springfield's with the bells and whistles on them as opposed to what most would consider 'standard SSP guns' like the Glock and M&P.

I don't know. I guess I'm one of the few that likes IDPA and its divisions as is. Although, it would be cool for them to open up a 7 and 8 round revolver division that could run in ESR or SSR as well as CDP. That would be the justification I need to get a 627 Also, an official bug gun division would be cool. Maybe I'm not as satisfied as I think I am

Brad is a testament not to Springfield but to a shooter knowing his weapon. Arrow meet Indian. All other things being equal, the Springfield is not the best platform for anything

 

[sbcman]

This doesn't apply to me as I'm not a member, but for any who are, I give you this from the keyboard of Steve:

Hello everybody, don't forget to vote tonight at the Red Brush Club house. We need to have a large IDPA turnout, as several IDPA people are running for the Board. 7:00 is the board meeting, and 7:30 will be the general meeting.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Grelber]

Brad is a testament not to Springfield but to a shooter knowing his weapon. Arrow meet Indiana. All other things being equal, the Springfield is not the best platform for anything

Seems like he did masters cdp with a Springfield 1911, esp with the xdm 5.25 and ssp with a Glock I think. With a little tweaking and goading it would be fun if you could get him to try his hand with a wheel gun. 5 gun master would be a neat thing and maybe a neat goal.

S.Hurt and D.Obradovich are now pn the RB board.

 

[sbcman]

S.Hurt and D.Obradovich are now pn the RB board.

Good to hear!

 

[DustyDawg48]

I don't know. I guess I'm one of the few that likes IDPA and its divisions as is. Although, it would be cool for them to open up a 7 and 8 round revolver division that could run in ESR or SSR as well as CDP. That would be the justification I need to get a 627 Also, an official bug gun division would be cool. Maybe I'm not as satisfied as I think I am

Brad is a testament not to Springfield but to a shooter knowing his weapon. Arrow meet Indian. All other things being equal, the Springfield is not the best platform for anything

I had a Springfield XDM 9; it was my first polymer pistol I ever owned. Didn't give it much of a chance since I was pretty heavy into 1911s at the time. Shot it a bit and ended up trading it for my first Glock. Never spent that much time with one again but just guessed that since they were already an ESP gun that be the one most likely to represent ESP.

I'm with you on your 7or8-round revolver division since I'd love for them to open up a 10-round CDP division

 

[Kisada]

OK, so I understand the M&P 45 can participate in all three non-revolver categories. But what I don't know much about is how do Glocks(SSP only?) differ from XDMs(ESP only?) vs M&Ps... what nuances make each one fit into one division, but not another?

I'm sure I could figure it out with a bit of web searching, but I'm feeling lazy at the moment and want to be spoon fed the how and why.

 

[sbcman]

OK, so I understand the M&P 45 can participate in all three non-revolver categories. But what I don't know much about is how do Glocks(SSP only?) differ from XDMs(ESP only?) vs M&Ps... what nuances make each one fit into one division, but not another?

I'm sure I could figure it out with a bit of web searching, but I'm feeling lazy at the moment and want to be spoon fed the how and why.

It's all based on action. XD/XDMs are classified as single action only pistols because their trigger only releases a striker, it doesn't cock or retract. Thus, it goes to ESP land only. Glocks and M&Ps are classified as double actions and therefore can play in SSP or ESP.

 

[DustyDawg48]

TJ got it. There difference is subtle but there is a difference as much as it might upset the Springer People

 

[Grelber]

TJ got it. There difference is subtle but there is a difference as much as it might upset the Springer People

I hate the stock xdm trigger, the stock Glock trigger iz what it iz and I like it tons better. Tweaked Glock triggers are better than stock but you still feel all that Rube Goldberg stuff going on inside the plastic when what you really want is a quick clean break.
The XDM with competition trigger kit is a whole different thing though, very 1911ish in my opinion.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I hate the stock xdm trigger, the stock Glock trigger iz what it iz and I like it tons better. Tweaked Glock triggers are better than stock but you still feel all that Rube Goldberg stuff going on inside the plastic when what you really want is a quick clean break.
The XDM with competition trigger kit is a whole different thing though, very 1911ish in my opinion.

I'm normally not one of those trigger bashers, to each his own, right? But I'm in full agreement that the stock XDm trigger was pretty terrible. I was shooting 1911s at the time so most triggers feel terrible when compared to that, but I actually like both the stock Glock and M&P triggers. I try to keep as many things close to stock as I can since, in my thinking, I'd want to be able to grab any similar gun and it would be the same as mine. Plus the last thing I want to do is buy something and then have to start messing with it! I am not a tinkerer!

In all fairness, I haven't shot an XDm in quite some time and would like to try another one soon just to see what I think of it now that I have a few years of shooting the Plastic Fantastics

 

[sbcman]

I'm normally not one of those trigger bashers, to each his own, right? But I'm in full agreement that the stock XDm trigger was pretty terrible. I was shooting 1911s at the time so most triggers feel terrible when compared to that, but I actually like both the stock Glock and M&P triggers. I try to keep as many things close to stock as I can since, in my thinking, I'd want to be able to grab any similar gun and it would be the same as mine. Plus the last thing I want to do is buy something and then have to start messing with it! I am not a tinkerer!

In all fairness, I haven't shot an XDm in quite some time and would like to try another one soon just to see what I think of it now that I have a few years of shooting the Plastic Fantastics

Dear goodness- Sprinfield's now I'm officially diagnosing you with GADD, Gun Attention Deficit Disorder

Just a friendly peice of advice, if you don't like tinkering with new guns, don't enter the revolver world Or, I guess I should say, enter it, just don't handle a Smith that's been worked over

 

[Grelber]

I'm normally not one of those trigger bashers, to each his own, right?

To each his own, on this thread????

I try to keep as many things close to stock as I can since, in my thinking, I'd want to be able to grab any similar gun and it would be the same as mine. Plus the last thing I want to do is buy something and then have to start messing with it! I am not a tinkerer!

If we weren't meant to buy and tinker with all of those geehahs and whatnots then they wouldn't make them, now would they ?

Anything that I can afford that might help an old blind dude or just seems cool (fun) gets my attention. I never did well as a child when I saw all those bright candy wrappers in checkout lines.

 

[DustyDawg48]

To each his own, on this thread????



If we weren't meant to buy and tinker with all of those geehahs and whatnots then they wouldn't make them, now would they ?

Anything that I can afford that might help an old blind dude or just seems cool (fun) gets my attention. I never did well as a child when I saw all those bright candy wrappers in checkout lines.

I used to always want to tinker with what I had when I was younger but now I just never seem to have the time. I've been mulling over getting fiberoptic front sites for a couple of my guns and still can't convince myself to do it. I'm in the works of getting a new carry gun and I'm interested in swapping out the factory sites for a set of XS Big Dots that everybody seems to brag about but that will probably set on the back burner for years to come, too!

 

[Grelber]

I used to always want to tinker with what I had when I was younger but now I just never seem to have the time. I've been mulling over getting fiberoptic front sites for a couple of my guns and still can't convince myself to do it. I'm in the works of getting a new carry gun and I'm interested in swapping out the factory sites for a set of XS Big Dots that everybody seems to brag about but that will probably set on the back burner for years to come, too!

If you didn't have a life you would have time to tinker, I know this.

I've got the Dawson Precision 0.1" fiber optic front on my G21 & stock rear, if you want to look at or fire such a thing let me know. 5 minute installation and about 40 bucks all told, sort of a crossover drug for gun fiddling.

 

[sbcman]

I used to always want to tinker with what I had when I was younger but now I just never seem to have the time. I've been mulling over getting fiberoptic front sites for a couple of my guns and still can't convince myself to do it. I'm in the works of getting a new carry gun and I'm interested in swapping out the factory sites for a set of XS Big Dots that everybody seems to brag about but that will probably set on the back burner for years to come, too!

I hesitate to ask, but what's the new carry gun?

Just my opinion, but whatever it is, I would put tritium on the front and leave the rear blacked out. Makes a huge difference when actually shooting in low light to just have one focus point.

One of the coolest things about tritium is that you can always seem them on your nightstand

 

[DustyDawg48]

I hesitate to ask, but what's the new carry gun?

Just my opinion, but whatever it is, I would put tritium on the front and leave the rear blacked out. Makes a huge difference when actually shooting in low light to just have one focus point.

One of the coolest things about tritium is that you can always seem them on your nightstand

I like the tritium on my M&P9 Pro, the only disadvantage I've found is the last time I was shooting just around dusk...hard to pick up the tritium in that type of light. I know it's only for a short period when the light is just right for it to happen, but other than that I really like them.

I would like a compact .45 to go with the compact 9. Most likely Glock 30 since it is roughly the same size as the M&P45c but holds a few more rounds. I'd like to do the same with my M&P9c, the Big Dots, but would really like to see and shoot a gun with those before swapping out the sites. At $80-$100 for them, that isn't a drop in the bucket if I don't like them.

I'll take you up on shooting that G21 of yours with that front site. Is new front site about the same size as the original? You think it effected the gun's point of aim/impact? I'm probably worrying about that a little too much since I tend to point shoot more than aimed shots.

 

[wabash]

suggestion - every item should have a day and month spelled out.

2 November