The Sad Radicals- atheists with a deep, abiding faith in their own oppression

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't have a problem with the display of the ten commandments in this manner, as they are most certainly an example of ancient law. They are certainly not the basis of all law, as ancient societies without the ten commandments most certainly had prohibitions against, stealing, murder, etc. I would note the absence of Jesus from the same building, for those who missed it.

A law that prohibits the establishment of a religion most certainly guarantees freedom from from religion with regards to the the government imposition of same. The only argument is where the line is drawn. The founding fathers knew well of the tyranny of the majority.

That is correct. Key part being the government imposing it upon the citizens (and IMHO a display is not "forcing" or "imposing" anything). Too many people (atheists mostly, but also people of other faiths besides Christianity) take it to mean that religion should be totally absent from society. "Keep it under your hat" I believe was the term used up thread. The first amendment does not do this. If the government required that all public buildings display the 10 commandments, or that citizens must visit a display of the 10 commandments on a daily basis under penalty of law, then that would be an imposition. And save the argument that since tax dollars were used to build those buildings. The taxes were agreed to (by our representatives) like it or not, and until the USSC says that taxation is unconstitutional, then that's what we've got.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I think you will find that you are in the minority, and that insinuating that those that disagree with your opinion are irrational is not a good stance to take.

Quite the contrary, the more we learn about the natural universe, the more we must admit that a transcendent supernatural intelligence does exist.

Therefore, recognizing that such an intelligence exists, opens us up to the logic that we are under His natural laws. It also follows that we're under His supernatural laws since He is a supernatural being.

Being in rebellion against His law logically requires Justice. He has provided that Justice in the form of a sacrifice, which was a manifestation of Himself.

Like every court, you are allowed to plead in whatever manner you deem best. If you believe you are not guilty, you are welcome to make that case. If you believe you are guilty, the court has a program that allows for someone else to receive your punishment.

It's all quite logical and rational. While some will point and say that it is absurd, I don't see them creating any universes either.

When you create a universe, you can make your own rules for those that live in it.

 

[HoughMade]

I've been called worse than irrational.

 

[PaulF]

Have you guys ever though about how little sense the Bible story makes? I mean, really stepped back and looked at the things you believe with a critical eye?

Why is Jesus necessary for salvation?

God created humans fully knowing everything that every one that ever lived would think, say, and do. The bible tells us that our behavior so upset God that he destroyed every land-dwelling creature on the planet...except hand-chosen few...as punishment. Why? Why would God be angry about something he had full control over? He knew exactly what we'd do before he ever set us on the planet. Why would He require us to confess belief in an ancient story to extend His grace to us? Now we're supposed to believe that He's coming back to kill everyone again...unless we utilize the Jesus Loophole he set up, and then...free entrance? Is heaven like a speakeasy?

God: "I'm going to kill every one of you!"
Random dude: "But...Jesus?"
God: "Okay, not you...you get to chill with me forever."

Have you ever thought this through? It's absurd...like, ridiculously so.

Why doesn't God just tell us directly what he wants from us? He can, if the Bible is to be believed.

Why didn't Jesus write his own gospel? He had the opportunity to tell the world His message in His own words...but He chose not to. And...why didn't The Twelve? What could God (let alone early Christians) expect from word-of-mouth transmission *except* for errors of transcription and a dilution of the message. Why didn't Jesus stay around after the resurrection? It would be a lot more impressive to be able to go speak with the Risen Jesus at his Church today, then it is to hear other people talk about a guy that came back to life for a while a couple thousand years ago.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Have you guys ever though about how little sense the Bible story makes? I mean, really stepped back and looked at the things you believe with a critical eye?

Why is Jesus necessary for salvation?

God created humans fully knowing everything that every one that ever lived would think, say, and do. The bible tells us that our behavior so upset God that he destroyed every land-dwelling creature on the planet...except hand-chosen few...as punishment. Why? Why would God be angry about something he had full control over? He knew exactly what we'd do before he ever set us on the planet. Why would He require us to confess belief in an ancient story to extend His grace to us? Now we're supposed to believe that He's coming back to kill everyone again...unless we utilize the Jesus Loophole he set up, and then...free entrance? Is heaven like a speakeasy?

God: "I'm going to kill every one of you!"
Random dude: "But...Jesus?"
God: "Okay, not you...you get to chill with me forever."

Have you ever thought this through? It's absurd...like, ridiculously so.

Why doesn't God just tell us directly what he wants from us? He can, if the Bible is to be believed.

Why didn't Jesus write his own gospel? He had the opportunity to tell the world His message in His own words...but He chose not to. And...why didn't The Twelve? What could God (let alone early Christians) expect from word-of-mouth transmission *except* for errors of transcription and a dilution of the message. Why didn't Jesus stay around after the resurrection? It would be a lot more impressive to be able to go speak with the Risen Jesus at his Church today, then it is to hear other people talk about a guy that came back to life for a while a couple thousand years ago.

In order to understand God you have to understand what it means to exist outside of the constraints of time and space.

There are some insights. So, God is like a father. If you're a father, you KNOW that your kids are going to screw up, you can watch it happen, but you let it happen anyway and you discipline them. If you don't let them experience life, then they won't grow up to be proper people.

God also created humans with free will so that they would love him out of a desire to do so rather than by compunction.

God is also perfect in every way. He is perfectly loving and perfectly just. Therefore, in order for him to both love us and be just with us, a sacrifice was needed for our crimes. The only perfect sacrifice was the manifestation of Himself as a human.

Jesus could have written a gospel and could have performed more miracles, but faith is a fragile thing. Too many miracles and people focus more on the saving than the savior. Too few and no one believes your claim. There were several times when Jesus commanded people to NOT spread the word about his miracles.

My favorite book of the Bible is Job. Job gives us hope when things are horrible, and also helps to humble us and reminds us who is in charge. God gives poor Job the what for when he questions God's motives and ways. That's kind of the same way I talk to my kids, so I can relate.

 

[indiucky]

Roll 'em all you want. I'm not the one who believes a centuries old story about a teenage girl who got impregnated by the creator of the universe, when no rational human would believe the very same story out of the mouth of their own daughter.

I love Christmas on INGO.....

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Science "accepts" many things with no proof whatsoever (dark matter, black holes, relativity, etc.). They have theories which over time have come to be accepted as truth, even though they cannot be recreated by man. Why should religion be any different?

One example... An earthworm could be burned in a gas spectrometer to determine the exact chemical makeup. Should be a simple matter to take those chemicals, in the exact same ratios, and create an earthworm, right? So why hasn't anyone done that? There is something missing, and that thing is "life". Where does that spark come from?

 

[ghuns]

...Should be a simple matter to take those chemicals, in the exact same ratios, and create an earthworm, right? So why hasn't anyone done that? There is something missing, and that thing is "life". Where does that spark come from?

Well, when a mommy earthworm and a daddy earthworm love each other very much, they...

 

[indiucky]

 

[Platycqb]

Science "accepts" many things with no proof whatsoever (dark matter, black holes, relativity, etc.). They have theories which over time have come to be accepted as truth, even though they cannot be recreated by man.

Where’s that facepalm emoji when you need it?
Black holes and relativity are defined and predicted by the theory of... wait for it... relativity.
A scientific theory is not an hypothesis.
There are even laws of black hole mechanics.
A scientific theory has been repeatedly tested, and verified (where possible).
So no, science doesn’t believe in stuff they think is maybe right.
But yes, science is amending its views about the world, the universe and such, following discoveries, breakthroughs.
Just as quantum mechanics “replaced” clasical physics.

 

[HoughMade]

Y'know, all I was originally doing was contrasting people with Marxist philosophies who reject traditional notions of faith with their own deep faith in their own victimhood....and the completely INGO-predictable thing happened.

I blame myself.

I get it. No one is interested in the original article. We just want to argue about the inartful thread title I chose based upon our own...whatever.

HoughMade out.

 

[KG1]

Have you guys ever though about how little sense the Bible story makes? I mean, really stepped back and looked at the things you believe with a critical eye?

Why is Jesus necessary for salvation?

God created humans fully knowing everything that every one that ever lived would think, say, and do. The bible tells us that our behavior so upset God that he destroyed every land-dwelling creature on the planet...except hand-chosen few...as punishment. Why? Why would God be angry about something he had full control over? He knew exactly what we'd do before he ever set us on the planet. Why would He require us to confess belief in an ancient story to extend His grace to us? Now we're supposed to believe that He's coming back to kill everyone again...unless we utilize the Jesus Loophole he set up, and then...free entrance? Is heaven like a speakeasy?

God: "I'm going to kill every one of you!"
Random dude: "But...Jesus?"
God: "Okay, not you...you get to chill with me forever."

Have you ever thought this through? It's absurd...like, ridiculously so.

Why doesn't God just tell us directly what he wants from us? He can, if the Bible is to be believed.

Why didn't Jesus write his own gospel? He had the opportunity to tell the world His message in His own words...but He chose not to. And...why didn't The Twelve? What could God (let alone early Christians) expect from word-of-mouth transmission *except* for errors of transcription and a dilution of the message. Why didn't Jesus stay around after the resurrection? It would be a lot more impressive to be able to go speak with the Risen Jesus at his Church today, then it is to hear other people talk about a guy that came back to life for a while a couple thousand years ago.

Seems like you have spent some time studying the word to some extent to come to the conclusion that it’s absurd and irrational. I’ll at least give you credit for that.

The word is available to all and it’s up to each individual to make the choice to accept it or not.

I’ll not force it on anyone.

 

[DRob]

I have read that one good way to judge any organization is by how they treat people who disagree with them.
...............................................

How's that working out here?

 

[Route 45]

I think you will find that you are in the minority, and that insinuating that those that disagree with your opinion are irrational is not a good stance to take.

If you say so.

 

[Denny347]

Y'know, all I was originally doing was contrasting people with Marxist philosophies who reject traditional notions of faith with their own deep faith in their own victimhood....and the completely INGO-predictable thing happened.

I blame myself.

I get it. No one is interested in the original article. We just want to argue about the inartful thread title I chose based upon our own...whatever.

HoughMade out.

Haha. I read the article and found it quite interesting, thank you for posting it. As an "Atheist" myself, I did not see anything in the article that requires this discussion to focus on that aspect. The title? I get what it was conveying, they were non-theists who formed a religion of sorts of their own.

 

[Expat]

If you say so.

You are so heroic.

 

[Route 45]

You are so heroic.

Thank you.

But I fear that I will never be as brave as the 75% of Americans that identify themselves as Christian in the face of so much suffering and oppression at the hands of non-believers.

Now that's heroic.

 

[1775usmarine]

Ibtl

 

[KLB]

Thank you.

But I fear that I will never be as brave as the 75% of Americans that identify themselves as Christian in the face of so much suffering and oppression at the hands of non-believers.

Now that's heroic.

Why do you insist on trying to belittle those that do not agree with your beliefs? Your beliefs are no more or less valid than theirs, and nothing is gained in trying to belittle them. Other than trying to make yourself feel superior about yours, or to try to upset them.

 

[Route 45]

Why do you insist on trying to belittle those that do not agree with your beliefs? Your beliefs are no more or less valid than theirs, and nothing is gained in trying to belittle them. Other than trying to make yourself feel superior about yours, or to try to upset them.

The struggle is real. Such persecution.

Don't worry, I won't post anything else to upset you. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Although maybe you should look into why yours are apparently so fragile.

I'm out of this "inartful" thread.