The Sad Radicals- atheists with a deep, abiding faith in their own oppression

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I love having conversations about faith with everyone. After all, it doesn't do much good to literally preach to the choir.

God is patient and loving, delaying the day of judgment so that everyone might be saved.

I don't know if I'd call apologetics a hobby of mine, but it is something that I enjoy. Always have a reason for your faith and be willing to defend it. I do believe that people are moved by personal testimony. No one ever got into a relationship by reading a pamphlet.

Christianity (it seems to me anyway) isn't the type of thing that can respond in kind to mockery, meme exchanges, etc. There's really no use in engaging with people who are only interested in interacting so. There are plenty of reasoned defenses for it (Christianity). Indy turned me on to apologetics a while back and it has helped me to learn the arguments and the biblical defenses to them..it has also helped me in my faith. I'm not real good at it but I know for most, if not all objections, there well reasoned answers. Skeptics and deniers often don't buy into them but to say there is no evidence, that it's blind faith, God of the gaps, etc., is simply refutable.

 

[KG1]

Christianity (it seems to me anyway) isn't the type of thing that can respond in kind to mockery, meme exchanges, etc. There's really no use in engaging with people who are only interested in interacting so. There are plenty of reasoned defenses for it (Christianity). Indy turned me on to apologetics a while back and it has helped me to learn the arguments and the biblical defenses to them..it has also helped me in my faith. I'm not real good at it but I know for most, if not all objections, there well reasoned answers. Skeptics and deniers often don't buy into them but to say there is no evidence, that it's blind faith, God of the gaps, etc., is simply refutable.

Exactly. I don’t expect someone that has chosen to reject the word of God to respect my acceptance.

 

[indiucky]

Christianity (it seems to me anyway) isn't the type of thing that can respond in kind to mockery, meme exchanges, etc. There's really no use in engaging with people who are only interested in interacting so. There are plenty of reasoned defenses for it (Christianity). Indy turned me on to apologetics a while back and it has helped me to learn the arguments and the biblical defenses to them..it has also helped me in my faith. I'm not real good at it but I know for most, if not all objections, there well reasoned answers. Skeptics and deniers often don't buy into them but to say there is no evidence, that it's blind faith, God of the gaps, etc., is simply refutable.

Thanks for the kind words brother....

 

[indiucky]

Exactly. I don’t expect someone that has chosen to reject the word of God to respect my acceptance.

I think it's human nature to reject the word of God......I also think it's human nature to go back to it and accept it...I look at God as someone who loves you but isn't a stalker...He'll wink at you every now and again but He does want you to come to Him on your own accord...

IMHO and I am nowhere near as smart as the plethora of guy's we have here on INGO regarding the subject....

 

[KG1]

That wasn’t directed at you...I was agreeing with your point. When someone starts in with all the ‘oppression’ talk it makes me take their point rather less seriously.

You think I wrote that to mock you? I...I didn’t realize my words would be read like that. My apologies.

No need for apologies. Maybe I got a little to defensive.

I would offer my hand in reconciliation if it were possible to do so. I mean no ill will toward you.

My hope is that we can both find peace in whatever we individually choose to believe in.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Paul, I don't believe you mean to "bash" people of faith, but perhaps you could reconsider your delivery? And I don't mean to single you out, because you are not alone in doing what I will point out in your post below... Red font are my comments... bolded are yours that I am attempting to address.

Have you guys ever though about how little sense the Bible story makes? Perhaps a better way to phrase this might be, "Guys, to me the Bible story makes little sense." - it's a little less accusatory in tone. I mean, really stepped back and looked at the things you believe with a critical eye?

Why is Jesus necessary for salvation? The answer is in the Bible. The choice to accept or reject it is yours of course.

God created humans fully knowing everything that every one that ever lived would think, say, and do. Yes and no. God gave man free will. He may "know" the outcome, but he doesn't stop us from making bad choices (or good ones). The bible tells us that our behavior so upset God that he destroyed every land-dwelling creature on the planet...except hand-chosen few...as punishment. Perhaps, or as many who are more scientifically inclined would say, new data (man's misbehavior) became available, so He decided to start fresh, or "re-test" if you will. Why? Why would God be angry about something he had full control over? He knew exactly what we'd do before he ever set us on the planet. Again, goes back to the free will that he gave man. Why would He require us to confess belief in an ancient story to extend His grace to us? The answer is in the Bible, and again you are free to accept or reject that answer. Now we're supposed to believe that He's coming back to kill everyone again...unless we utilize the Jesus Loophole he set up, and then...free entrance? Not to kill everyone again, but to offer another chance. Is heaven like a speakeasy?
No, it's not. God is clear (in the Bible) about the path to Heaven. It's no "loophole".
God: "I'm going to kill every one of you!"
Random dude: "But...Jesus?"
God: "Okay, not you...you get to chill with me forever."
This comes across as a little condescending and flippant.
Have you ever thought this through? It's absurd...like, ridiculously so. This is ridicule. You're flat out saying that the beliefs of people of faith are absurd. Perhaps phrasing it like "To me, it seems absurd." would come across as a little less confrontational and still conveys your feelings.

Why doesn't God just tell us directly what he wants from us? He does - again, it's right there in the Bible. “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” He can, if the Bible is to be believed. That's up to you (or anyone).

Why didn't Jesus write his own gospel? He had the opportunity to tell the world His message in His own words...but He chose not to. You answered your own question. And...why didn't The Twelve? What could God (let alone early Christians) expect from word-of-mouth transmission *except* for errors of transcription and a dilution of the message. Would it have made a difference? Again, he gave man free will to believe or act as he choses. Why didn't Jesus stay around after the resurrection? It would be a lot more impressive to be able to go speak with the Risen Jesus at his Church today, then it is to hear other people talk about a guy that came back to life for a while a couple thousand years ago. His plan, his rules? I don't claim to know the mind of God, and no human can.

ETA KG1's sentiment:

"No need for apologies. Maybe I got a little to defensive.

I would offer my hand in reconciliation if it were possible to do so. I mean no ill will toward you.

My hope is that we can both find peace in whatever we individually choose to believe in."

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think it's human nature to reject the word of God......I also think it's human nature to go back to it and accept it...I look at God as someone who loves you but isn't a stalker...He'll wink at you every now and again but He does want you to come to Him on your own accord...

IMHO and I am nowhere near as smart as the plethora of guy's we have here on INGO regarding the subject....

Remember, there were people that, according to the Bible, saw the miracles, they saw the Red Sea parted, Lazarus raised from the dead, saw Jesus after he was resurrected, etc. and chose to turn their backs. As you say, to some extent, it's human nature to want to be the god of their own lives. We all have that proclivity. I heard the line one time, when asked if his Jesus-denying-Jewish mother is in hell, the apologist said (something to effect) "I don't know. I don't know what was actually in your mother's heart, whether she had a deathbed conversion, etc. But God loves you too much to force you to iive with him in eternity, against your will..."

 

[Denny347]

Exactly. I don’t expect someone that has chosen to reject the word of God to respect my acceptance.

Why not?

 

[alabasterjar]

Fair enough. If my voice isnt welcome I won’t participate. Better than to force the situation.

Please participate...I would say the same thing to Denny & Route45 and others. Either my faith and my God are big enough to handle tough questions or I need to reconsider my beliefs. I do not have all the answers...I am not very articulate, and even less well read, unfortunately.

For everyone; I mentioned in the What Are You Listening To Right Now thread that I stumbled across an audiobook of C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". Atheist, agnostic, Christian, or other, I would highly encourage listening. C.S. Lewis does an outstanding job of answering a lot of the questions posed here in a logical manner, using plain English. You may not agree with his conclusions, but his explanations are well thought out and worth considering. At the very least, it will help you understand why many Christians believe what they believe, but maybe aren't very good at communicating as clearly as Lewis.

Listen, my uncle is a very outspoken agnostic/atheist, and I have read many of the authors that he frequently quotes, and I hope he does the same for me (John Lennox, Eric Metaxas, William Lane Craig, Stephen Meyer are some of my favorites). I can tell you this: we are not afraid to debate, sometimes very pointedly and passionately, but always respectfully. I enjoy debating him because it forces me to reconsider my position and make sure that what I am saying, what I believe is solid. Maybe I'm not a very good debater; after all, he is still an agnostic/atheist... Or maybe my job is not to convert him, but to love him & present him with what I believe are Divine truths from The Creator and let him be him. I'm good with that - I'm not that smart!

[video=youtube_share;OvxmCSx6CNs]http://youtu.be/OvxmCSx6CNs[/video]

 

[Mongo59]

Scripture says that things of the world will sound like foolishness to people of faith and things of faith will sound like foolishness to people of the world. Not a lot of middle ground there so I leave it at that.

This needs to be made as a personal commitment and not one I have known to be resolved on a board of any type.

I do find it strange that "enlightened" people tend to denounce God and all His believers and yet cling to the freedom afforded them by the same delusional, misguided Christians who laid the framework for this nation.

Misguided Christians gave you freedom and worldly self fulfilling intellectuals continually try to take it away.

This is the battle that has be going on longer than all of us and we will all have to pick a side. And the day is near to where the ante will be required for more than your words, and I am not speaking about our potential for force either.

I speak of being strong enough as to not repay evil with evil but to repay evil with good. To have the knowledge of and the potential to "kick butt and take names" but instead place a higher value on the needs of your enemy than those of your own.

Crazy? By the worlds standards, yes.

So, what could make some Marine say something as ridiculous as this? That, my friend, is exactly what we have to talk about...

 

[spencer rifle]

Why not?

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Cor. 2:14

 

[indiucky]

Why not?

Why not indeed.....

Christopher Hitchens started a friendship with Evangelical Larry Taunton...It began with an interview...Taunton was expecting this mean, God hating man and that was not the man he meant...I'll leave a link to the interview...It's one of the best interviews I've heard of Christopher Hitchens...They never argued once...Larry Taunton would do his Hitchens impression WITH Hitchens onstage and Hitch would just grin...

He sent the first chapter rough draft of his book to Hitch to have him look at it and make sure he got their conversations accurately....

When Hitch received the rough draft he called Taunton and said, "I got this draft of your first chapter...Why?"

"Well Christopher I wanted you to make sure I am representing you correctly."

"How sporting of you Larry..I'll call you back.."

Hitch calls back and says, "Larry there is a grave error in there and it must be corrected.."

Taunton in a panic says, "I am sorry Christopher..What did I get wrong? I'll fix it..."

"Black....Johnnie Walker Black...Not Red....I'm serious about my Scotch...."


[video=youtube;obycPvu5fro]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obycPvu5fro&t=306s[/video]

This interview is the best.....Taunton was worried that when he published his book, "The Faith of Christopher Hitchens" that folks in the non believer sector would question their friendship....When they finished the interview Hitch looked at Larry and grinned and said, "Let's see them doubt it now..."

[video=youtube;_ZCqOHaRRXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZCqOHaRRXk[/video]


This is very touching as well...You get to see Larry doing his Hitchens impression and Hitch, even with cancer, he's grinning like a Cheshire Cat at hearing the story.....

[video=youtube;HsGIbU_FYTw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGIbU_FYTw[/video]

 

[Denny347]

Why not indeed.....

Christopher Hitchens started a friendship with Evangelical Larry Taunton...It began with an interview...Taunton was expecting this mean, God hating man and that was not the man he meant...I'll leave a link to the interview...It's one of the best interviews I've heard of Christopher Hitchens...They never argued once...Larry Taunton would do his Hitchens impression WITH Hitchens onstage and Hitch would just grin...

He sent the first chapter rough draft of his book to Hitch to have him look at it and make sure he got their conversations accurately....

When Hitch received the rough draft he called Taunton and said, "I got this draft of your first chapter...Why?"

"Well Christopher I wanted you to make sure I am representing you correctly."

"How sporting of you Larry..I'll call you back.."

Hitch calls back and says, "Larry there is a grave error in there and it must be corrected.."

Taunton in a panic says, "I am sorry Christopher..What did I get wrong? I'll fix it..."

"Black....Johnnie Walker Black...Not Red....I'm serious about my Scotch...."


[video=youtube;obycPvu5fro]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obycPvu5fro&t=306s[/video]

This interview is the best.....Taunton was worried that when he published his book, "The Faith of Christopher Hitchens" that folks in the non believer sector would question their friendship....When they finished the interview Hitch looked at Larry and grinned and said, "Let's see them doubt it now..."

[video=youtube;_ZCqOHaRRXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZCqOHaRRXk[/video]


This is very touching as well...You get to see Larry doing his Hitchens impression and Hitch, even with cancer, he's grinning like a Cheshire Cat at hearing the story.....

[video=youtube;HsGIbU_FYTw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGIbU_FYTw[/video]

I love his writings. My best friend (outside of my wife of course) is a devout Christian (almost evangelical) and I respect his beliefs and the feeling is mutual. We are polar opposites and still respect each other because we are comfortable in our beliefs.

 

[indiucky]

I love his writings. My best friend (outside of my wife of course) is a devout Christian (almost evangelical) and I respect his beliefs and the feeling is mutual. We are polar opposites and still respect each other because we are comfortable in our beliefs.

As it should be Brother.....If you like Hitch you should listen to that interview...He really opens up about his youth and where his doubt came from....Taunton describing when Hitch whirled into the room talking as if he was carrying on a conversation that he had been having with Taunton, whom he had never met....They just hit it off.....

Have a blessed day Denny....

 

[KG1]

Why not?

Perhaps my choice of the word “respect” was’nt the proper choice in retrospect as evidenced by my reply to PaulF’s post.

“My hope is that we can both find peace in whatever we individually choose to believe in”

If I were given the opportunity to rephrase the post that you asked about it would read.

“I don’t place any expectation on anyone that has chosen to reject the word of God to fully “understand” my acceptance.”

 

[Denny347]

Perhaps my choice of the word “respect” was’nt the proper choice in retrospect as evidenced by my reply to PaulF’s post “My hope is that we can both find peace in whatever we individually choose to believe in”

If I were given the opportunity to rephrase the post that you asked about it would read “I don’t place any expectation on anyone that has chosen to reject the word of God to fully “understand” my acceptance.”

Fair enough. You are correct, I do not understand. But that's ok

 

[KG1]

Fair enough. You are correct, I do not understand. But that's ok

Fair enough as well and I promise not to try and convert you although I can’t make that same promise to not offer up a prayer for you. It’s in my nature. I hope you can understand that.

 

[Denny347]

Fair enough as well and I promise not to try and convert you although I can’t make that same promise to not offer up a prayer for you. It’s in my nature. I hope you can understand that.

I understand that and I do actually appreciate a prayer even if I don't believe in them. Good natured folks doing good natured things is universally accepted I hope.

 

[cce1302]

Wow, crazy atheist bash on an article about anarchists!

 

[jamil]

Just came across this thread. Great article. Potentially fruitful discussion could have been had about the actual topic if someone hadn’t gone off about ”muh tribe got dissed”. So eager to find a pube in the ham sandwich, they just weren’t not gonna find one.

There’s a thread for religious discussions. But no. People had to get buthurt and use this topic, which really isn’t as much about atheism as it is about *some* atheists who treat their ideology as a religion, as a religion urinal to **** on. This is why I don’t call myself an atheist. It’s been my experience that the people who wear atheism on their sleeves are mostly *******s who can’t not be costic when the discussion turns to religion.

So anyway, Hough, thanks for posting the article, it serves as good insight into the thinking and how people get so radicalized. The title is fine. No buthurt from this nonbeliever. But damn. Could have been a good discussion. I’ve often thought that far leftists behave like it’s a religion.