Thoughts on the 380

[dom1104]

Why are the people who bash the 380 never willing to stand up and take one for the team?

because thats a dumb argument Hemi. Nobody HAS to take a bullet, so of course nobody would want to. I dont want to get hit by a rock thrown by a 6 year old either.

Let me throw another totally false hypothetical out there.

If you were in some weird justice system of the future, where your punishment for theft of a Iphone 9.0 was to stand at 7 yards, and take a bullet to the chest.... but you got to pick the caliber..... .380, 9mm, 40, or 45....

You can bet your bottom dollar if I HAD to take a bullet to the boiler-room, it would be a .380.

 

[Colt556]

I frequently carry a Sig 230 loaded with Federal Hydra Shocks and don't feel under armed at all. People talk about one shot stops but who is taught to shoot once? If the 1st shot doesn't work the 2nd or 3rd might. I have 8 shots in the gun and another 7rd mag ready for a fast reload. Also I can put 8 shots on target much faster and more accurately than 5 shots out of a light 38 or 357. Another thing to consider is muzzle blast and recoil. Next time you have a chance shoot your light 38 or 357 at night and see how long it takes to get your night vision back. I think you should carry what you feel comfortable with and more importantly what you can shoot accurately and reliably. I carry a 1911, Sig 228/229 or P7 or G33 at different times but the lil Sig is with me more often than not.

 

[cosermann]

Now there's something that makes no sense to me anymore; that is, a "full-size" .380, like the SIG P230/232, Bersa Thunder, Walther, etc. (unless one is particularly recoil sensitive)

One can carry a number of 9mm pistols the same size and weight (maybe lighter) and have the advantages of the more potent cartridge and cheaper ammunition.

The .380 only makes sense to me in a mouse gun platform, and then only when I can't carry anything else due to the circumstances, or as a BUG or tertiary gun.

No current JHP .380 expands and penetrates enough for my preferences, so when carried, it's just FMJ for me.

 

[Hoosier9]

Pro sub-caliber people will quip little sayings like "I wouldnt want to be shot by one" or "Anything is better than nothing"

Well... REALLY? Wow wisdom of the ages.

The gun you put on into the holster in the morning on your way to work should be the gun you want to come OUT of the holster when you are in a gunfight to save your life.

For me, thats a full sized gun. My life is worth it.

What is a "sub-caliber?"

Is a .380 NOT better than nothing?

I had no idea that my life is worthless because I can't carry a full size gun at work. I suppose I had better quit immediately, since there is a .000001% chance that I might be in a gunfight today.

Every choice that we make regarding what to carry is a compromise. If we lived in a war zone, one would be a fool to venture out without at least a carbine. We don't live in a war zone. The chances of getting into a gunfight are extremely remote. A .380 in the pocket makes one vastly more prepared than the majority of the population, who do not carry a firearm.

.380 pocket guns excel in the role that they were intended for.....a gun you can carry when you can't carry a gun.

 

[Obiward]

I had a beretta 84 in .380 and really didn't like it due to the direct blowback system. The recoil seemed way too snappy and requiringthe target was a lot more difficult than with my Glock 17 or USP 45. It shot well but it wasn't what I was looking for in the end. And the ammo got to be way too expensive and hard to find for a while.

 

[hemicharger]

Screw it, Im carrying a "suitcase nuke" from now on since a lot of people seem to think that carrying 2 1911's and 20 extra mags is clearly not enough for daily carry. I had no idea our streets were that bad.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

.380 is FINE. hold it next to a 9mm.....now what do you think? I personally am completely comfortable even when carrying a .25. It's not really about caliber IMO, but rather intelligence and skill.

 

[Rob377]

Why are the people who bash the 380 never willing to stand up and take one for the team?

Probably for the same reason they wouldn't volunteer to get kicked in the junk. It would hurt. But their failure to volunteer for that doesn't convince me shoes are the best available self defense tool.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

"Bond....James Bond..."

 

[A5guy]

I've got my little 380 about broke in, and I've got to say, having no prior experience with the 380, it really isn't THAT wimpy of a cartridge. 200 rounds in, I've got to 'experiment' a little with my backstops and what it will or won't penetrate. Buffalo Bore makes a flat nosed hard cast bullet that gets 1000fps + that pounds right through 2" thick oak boards at 25 or 30 feet- splinters and crap flying everywhere! CorBon makes a couple types that get 1100fps +. Haven't tried those out yet. Both brands have a low flash powder in them that doesn't blind you at night so bad.
Even regular ball ammo is pretty impressive up close.
The thing is, IMO, a 380 is not a combat handgun, it's a self defense weapon. With that in mind, the quick two or three to the chest or 'T' we train for would be devastating/fatal to an attacker even with 95gr ball.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

"Bond....James Bond..."

007 carried a .32 I think.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

007 carried a .32 I think.

I think he carried a variety of guns over the years...

 

[gcoop]

i had an older gent ask me do you really think the sob you just shot is going to care what caliber hand gun you are using?

 

[hemicharger]

i had an older gent ask me do you really think the sob you just shot is going to care what caliber hand gun you are using?

Well said

I think 99.99999999999% of bad guys would stop what they are doing if they took a 22lr to the face

 

[45pro]

Well said

I think 99.99999999999% of bad guys would stop what they are doing if they took a 22lr to the face

or ball sack, but to each their own...


No seriously though, even a .22 i'm pretty sure will put me out of commission if i ever got shot by one. Reliability and shot placement are incredibly more important than how big your bullet is. Wow that sounded dirty.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

i had an older gent ask me do you really think the sob you just shot is going to care what caliber hand gun you are using?

I love it

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I think he carried a variety of guns over the years...

Apparently in the beginning it was a .25acp Beretta Modelo but then switched to the Walther PPK in .32 which remained his gun of choice. Here is a pretty neat site about the guns of 007. The Guns Of James Bond

BTW, according to the Bond site, a .380acp is also known as a 9mm Kurz.

 

[Hoosier8]

The 9mm short round has been around a long time. Remember, it started WWI. Archduke Ferdinand and his wife were assasinated by the lowly 380. It has been around since 1908 and the newer rounds are much better.

The west was won with much less powerful rounds, like the cap and ball 31 caliber black powder.

The 22 probably kills more people by criminals than anything else. If you are going up against a 22 do you think a 380 would be sufficient?

It is not a sufficient round for combat but perfectly suitable for personal defense which would usually be up close.

 

[paddling_man]

I have never shot, much less killed a human being. I hope I never have to. I have, however, hunted other mammals - some larger, some smaller than a person.

Even with a high power rifle cartridge, rapid stops of the mammal being shot are highly dependent on shot placement. The relative muzzle energy can make a marginal shot more effective with a significantly more powerful round. As an example, you can drop a deer with a surgically precise shot from a .22LR. However, a .444 Marlin, while still requiring a good shot placement, needs to be much less precise due to the comparatively extreme energy and effects of hydrostatic shock on the body.

While the muzzle energy of typical handgun rounds run from 250-500 ft/lbs, a rifle round runs from 1800-3000 ft/lbs. A rifle has a DRAMATICALLY better chance of incapacitating a mammal than a handgun due to muzzle energy and hydrostatic shock. Handgun rounds are a pitiful comparison with rifle rounds and have little of the hydrostatic shock effect that rifles are capable of inflicting.

Handguns with enough "power" to begin to approach the damage even a mild rifle is capable of quickly becomes unmanageable for most shooters. (You really gonna carry that .460 snubby?)

The only point I'm trying to make is that all handguns are a compromise and, while it might be argued to carry the one that is the most powerful to stack the deck in your favor, I would submit that you carry the one that:

a) You WILL carry.
b) You can accurately manage rapid followup shots on target.

These factors make the caliber decision less important that being able to effectively use the handgun and have it readily available. Ultimately ALL handguns are weak compromises and the shooter should count on having to put as many shots on prime target real estate as quickly as possible to swing the odds in your favor.


How about a flow chart?

1- Pick a gun with the most powerful cartridge you're willing to try.

2- Is it something you will be able to carry on your person as much as possible? If yes, continue to 3. If not, return to 1.

3- Can you, with reasonable combat accuracy, make rapid shots on target? If yes, continue to 4. If not, return to 1.

4- Does it function reliably? If yes, continue to 5. If not, return to 1.

5- You now have your carry weapon. Shoot it often, train with it, and let it become a comfortable extension to your body while recognizing that it is a poor replacement for a rifle. Your ability to use it effectively to end a self-defense engagement will depend on many factors outside of your skillset including the attitude/condition/clothing/sobriety/drive-to-survive/drive-to-injure-you of the mammal you're shooting.

Understand that picking and using a self-defense handgun is a lot like religion: it is a personal decision that requires a whole lot of practice and a whole lot of faith to work for you.








I usually carry single stack .45s with an odd single stack 9mm (P7) occasionally thrown into the mix. There are a couple of double stack 9mms that I use as a bedside gun. There is a .357 with hardcast 180gr and 200gr for the woods when a rifle is impractical. For the necessity of deeper cover, there is a tiny .380 and a couple of 9mm Mak thrown in.

I feel ill equipped with all of them in comparison to the 12g or one of the rifles but feel much better with ALL of them than carrying nothing.

 

[randyb]

The .380 is better than nothing and if you realize its strengths (guns are small sized) vs its weakness (ability to do as much tissue damage as rounds like the 9mm and up). If you need an uber small concealed carry gun then its the bomb. If you are looking at a high threat environment well then it sucks and you would be better served with a larger caliber weapon. For me, I have in the past carried a .380 (and for that matter lower powered rounds like the .22 and .32). At this point in my life I have a .32 but rarely carry as my dress allows me to carry a 38 or 9mm and up. For a pocket gun I would prefer a j frame .38 over the .380 but that is because of my size and such. If you understand the dynamics of the round, it will serve you well. My dad, sister in law both carry .380's. My mom a .38, my brother a .357. So to each their own and practice shot placement over everything else.