Training to Win Review

[Killion]

I just watched Training to Win. I thought it was great! I have been wanting to read books, but with my illiteracy problems I can't. I am thankful that Ben took my request and put stuff in a video for me to understand. If it wasn't for Dragon Dictation I wouldn't even be able to post on INGO.

 

[bwframe]

Can't say I hate either. Ben has been hugely helpful to me and my shooting. As far as Yeager, it's not nice to hate "special" people.

Coach just hates everyone. I think he's angling for a spot on Team Luddite Curmudgeon.

Liking a trainer or visa versa isn't necessarily a maker or breaker for me anyway.

 

[Coach]

Liking a trainer or visa versa isn't necessarily a maker or breaker for me anyway.

It would have to get extreme for me for it to be a deal breaker. But Yeager and Stoeger would be two.

 

[Rob377]

One of these days, I'd love to hear why you dislike the guy so much.

He's gone out of his way to help my shooting, so I'm curious why ol' timers think he's the devil.

 

[Killion]

he must have shot a wall section?

 

[Rob377]

he must have shot a wall section?

If that's the case, i!m pretty sure everyone is the devil.

 

[Coach]

One of these days, I'd love to hear why you dislike the guy so much.

He's gone out of his way to help my shooting, so I'm curious why ol' timers think he's the devil.

He is a great shooter. I am glad he helped you. Why I dislike him is easy.

The complete lack of character is the simple way to say. Doodie alone speaks volumes. The attacks on people like Julie Golob and her work and books that was without class, restraint, and completely bush league. The complaining about the prima donnas on the super squad that was largely accurate, but he excluded himself and he is guilty of everything he complained about them. Though The incident at the state match in Warsaw that I was range master for and witnessed with my own eyes and ears is the biggest single reason. He was completely out of line in that situation and I regret not DQ' ing him for unsportsmanlike conduct. These are my reasons.

 

[Ben Stoeger]

He is a great shooter. I am glad he helped you. Why I dislike him is easy.

The complete lack of character is the simple way to say. Doodie alone speaks volumes. The attacks on people like Julie Golob and her work and books that was without class, restraint, and completely bush league. The complaining about the prima donnas on the super squad that was largely accurate, but he excluded himself and he is guilty of everything he complained about them. Though The incident at the state match in Warsaw that I was range master for and witnessed with my own eyes and ears is the biggest single reason. He was completely out of line in that situation and I regret not DQ' ing him for unsportsmanlike conduct. These are my reasons.

Wow.

Look, I get why people don't like my forum. I get why people don't like some of the things I have occasionally said. That stuff is all public and interested parties can go read it.

The "incident" you refer to in Warsaw was a rather non-incident as far as I am concerned. Just so we are clear, I shot a match at the Warsaw range in 2011. During that match, I called for calibration on a malfunctioning popper. I won the calibration call. This was a rather important piece of steel to hit as it revealed 2 static targets. The penalties I was to be assessed for leaving it up were enormous. I remember having largely positive interaction with the range staff during that "incident". I think one person (I don't recall who) took the position that if the popper fell during calibration it would be the "correct" result. I thought that was nutty at the time, and still have that opinion.

I don't remember the specifics of the calibration thing... but I was a little amped up during it. I don't think I was an ******* about it... maybe I was. In any event, it was nearly 2 years later that I heard there was an "incident" with me at Warsaw. This was such a non-issue at the time I didn't realize it was in any way controversial.

So, here is my opinion. I think you are, to put it bluntly, completely full of ****. Not only was a DQ not warranted in that situation, it wasn't even discussed. I left that stage giving the on duty RO a handshake. As far as I was concerned all was well. Now, I can understand if you think I am/was an ******* about it but if you are going to post that you thought I should have been DQed for that I am here to call you a liar.

I hope that you don't serve as a RM for any match in the future. The RMs that I deal with year in and year out handle their matches with professionalism. They run the match fairly and make the right calls. I can't remember ever seeing a USPSA RM posting on a forum about some competitor he thinks is an ******* and should have DQed. What are you thinking?

It was my plan to return to Warsaw for a match later this month. Based on your prior posts in this thread I checked to see if you were the RM and thankfully you are not (this was last night btw, before you really jumped the shark). If you happen to be ROing the match I will politely request that the RM assign a different RO for me when I get to your stage. I don’t trust that you will give me a fair shake.
It isn't often that I can lecture someone about professionalism…. But damn dude you have some problems. You can’t post this kind of **** and have people trust you to be a good RM or RO. Maybe you should email a link to this thread to NROI and see what they think about it.

Oh, one other thing. If you don’t like guys that slam other people on the internet, then pot, you should meet kettle.

 

[chezuki]

 

[R3l0@d3r]

He's probably just trying to get post counts to get into the classifieds.

 

[chezuki]

He's probably just trying to get post counts to get into the classifieds.

49 more to go!! Must be a Beretta for sale...

 

[mbills2223]

I'm taking any and all challengers for a shoot off.

What...no one in this thread man enough?

 

[jakemartens]

I'm taking any and all challengers for a shoot off.

What...no one in this thread man enough?

sure
we talking 20 paces or what

 

[CB45]

I'm taking any and all challengers for a shoot off.

What...no one in this thread man enough?

Thread drift???

 

[Rob377]

I got a chance to work on one of the live fire drills from the video today, and learned quite a bit.

I've heard about this Warsaw "incident" yet no one seems to be able to explain why winning a calibration call is such an awful thing. Much less how it constitutes an act of dishonesty or cheating that would warrant a DQ per 10.6.

 

[Coach]

completely full of ****[/I]. Not only was a DQ not warranted in that situation, it wasn't even discussed


It was my plan to return to Warsaw for a match later this month. Based on your prior posts in this thread I checked to see if you were the RM and thankfully you are not (this was last night btw, before you really jumped the shark). If you happen to be ROing the match I will politely request that the RM assign a different RO for me when I get to your stage. I don’t trust that you will give me a fair shake.
It isn't often that I can lecture someone about professionalism…. But damn dude you have some problems. You can’t post this kind of **** and have people trust you to be a good RM or RO. Maybe you should email a link to this thread to NROI and see what they think about it.

/QUOTE]

There is no doubt your were out of control and being an ass. The fact that you allude to it being possible here is an admission in my book. The rest of your behaviors points toward it rather than away from it.

Being full of **** is a flaw that I am labeled with from time to time. In this case it is not accurate. The discussion about the DQ happened in my head. I decided that your tirade that was directed at me would not be the reason for it. No one should have to endure that kind of attack for following the rule book to the letter and doing a volunteer job, but I did. Watching you shoot the stage I observed you fire two shots through the wall trying to knock that popper down, and then I watched you empty at least one magazine at the popper from the end of the wall between barrels. I decided right then watching this from uprange that if that popper was not visible from that point I was going to DQ you. The popper was not supposed to be visible from there. When I went down range a tiny piece of the popper was in visible, and so that was not a violation, I even respected the fact that you found that view in the heat of the moment. When I questioned the RO that was on the timer about the two shots through the wall. She said that you did not shoot through the wall. I walked her down and showed her the enlarged holes in the mesh that were not there before. She was amazed, and agreed that you must have shot through the wall. I did not make the call to DQ, despite knowing that it was deserved, because I did not feel as RM that I could step in and make a call over the top of the RO.

I bring all of these specifics up for two reasons maybe they will jar your memory, and to illustrate that you were given a fair treatment that day despite your actions during the stage and your antics following the stage. The reason that you cannot lecture people on professionalism is that you would not know what professionalism is, if it were a six inch tall man that crawled up your leg and bit you on the ass. Anyone who screams "Do you know who I am?" Because the procedure in the rulebook regarding calibration is being followed rather than simply awarding a reshoot because you are Ben Stoeger has no room to talk about professionalism.

Forward whatever posts to wherever you want. I have been ROing since 2004 and I treat everyone the same, and make every effort to be objective. I think I get it right far more than I get it wrong. And when I mess up it is a mistake and never intently. You have already received a fair treatment from me, and you always will. Maybe next time you will notice.

 

[Ben Stoeger]

Watching you shoot the stage I observed you fire two shots through the wall trying to knock that popper down, and then I watched you empty at least one magazine at the popper from the end of the wall between barrels. I decided right then watching this from uprange that if that popper was not visible from that point I was going to DQ you. The popper was not supposed to be visible from there. When I went down range a tiny piece of the popper was in visible, and so that was not a violation, I even respected the fact that you found that view in the heat of the moment. When I questioned the RO that was on the timer about the two shots through the wall. She said that you did not shoot through the wall. I walked her down and showed her the enlarged holes in the mesh that were not there before. She was amazed, and agreed that you must have shot through the wall. I did not make the call to DQ, despite knowing that it was deserved, because I did not feel as RM that I could step in and make a call over the top of the RO

Yes, I noticed the faulty popper was still standing and engaged it later on in the stage. I engaged it on an "as visible" basis as per the rules. During me engaged the popper with many rounds through a narrow slit in a wall, I may have inadvertently hit the wall. You understand that you, as the RM, can't really do anything about that. You put the wall downrange and a competitor inadvertently shot it while engaging a target. That isn't a rules violation... hell that isn't even an issue. That having been said, I am sorry I shot the wall. I was trying to hit the popper... but I am not very good. I am just going to reiterate that you don't have any business being an RM or an RO because you can't dq people simply for inadvertently shooting a wall while engaging a target.

The reason that you cannot lecture people on professionalism is that you would not know what professionalism is, if it were a six inch tall man that crawled up your leg and bit you on the ass.

Agreed. That is why it is 10 times more devastating to have me attack your professionalism.

Anyone who screams "Do you know who I am?" Because the procedure in the rulebook regarding calibration is being followed rather than simply awarding a reshoot because you are Ben Stoeger has no room to talk about professionalism.

Lie. Just a lie.

I wanted a reshoot, I absolutely never tried to use "who I am" to get it. I mean, that would be a particularly stupid idea because years ago when this happened I had even less status than I do now.. don't you agree? I mean, that just doesn't make any sense. The popper was obviously malfunctioning.. I just wanted a fair run at the stage. I should point out that I did get the reshoot in the end, so all's well that ends well.

If you were the guy that came and calibrated the popper, then you and I didn't have any issues. You showed up, shot the thing, and I got a reshoot. We didn't have an argument. I didn't scream at you. You didn't scream at me. You were cool about it as far as I could tell. I guess I didn't pick up on the fact that you were having a discussion in your brain about whether or not to dq me (I still think you are lying about that but whatever). I also didn't pick up on you deciding you would carry this around for years after the fact.

 

[Coach]

Yes, I noticed the faulty popper was still standing and engaged it later on in the stage. I engaged it on an "as visible" basis as per the rules. During me engaged the popper with many rounds through a narrow slit in a wall, I may have inadvertently hit the wall. You understand that you, as the RM, can't really do anything about that. You put the wall downrange and a competitor inadvertently shot it while engaging a target. That isn't a rules violation... hell that isn't even an issue. That having been said, I am sorry I shot the wall. I was trying to hit the popper... but I am not very good. I am just going to reiterate that you don't have any business being an RM or an RO because you can't dq people simply for inadvertently shooting a wall while engaging a target.






Agreed. That is why it is 10 times more devastating to have me attack your professionalism.







Lie. Just a lie.

I wanted a reshoot, I absolutely never tried to use "who I am" to get it. I mean, that would be a particularly stupid idea because years ago when this happened I had even less status than I do now.. don't you agree? I mean, that just doesn't make any sense. The popper was obviously malfunctioning.. I just wanted a fair run at the stage. I should point out that I did get the reshoot in the end, so all's well that ends well.

If you were the guy that came and calibrated the popper, then you and I didn't have any issues. You showed up, shot the thing, and I got a reshoot. We didn't have an argument. I didn't scream at you. You didn't scream at me. You were cool about it as far as I could tell. I guess I didn't pick up on the fact that you were having a discussion in your brain about whether or not to dq me (I still think you are lying about that but whatever). I also didn't pick up on you deciding you would carry this around for years after the fact.

You shot through the wall 8-10 feet from the end. Two shots. There is something that could be done about that.
You did try to influence the situation because of who you are. Now we are just down to whose version is the truth and which one is not. I make a habit of not lying. There were enough people standing around who witnessed this start to finish that I am confident about everything that happened. It is not important to me that you are upset or uncomfortable with the facts. It does not matter to me that your question my professionalism. It does not even bother me that you question my honesty and integrity. Why because I place zero importance on you as a man, and that is because of the way your conduct yourself.

I was asked in this thread why I did not like you. I have laid the facts out here. You have disputed them. You are wrong.

 

[rhino]

Well, that was refreshing!

Let's review. In the current vernacular, here are my "take-aways":

• We now have a better idea of why the individual who recently joined us has a reputation that goes beyond shooting ability. This includes both information regarding historical events as well as demeanor on display in this topic.
• Coach has many endearing qualities, but in my years of experience lying is not among them. Others may judge as they will.
• While this was an interesting distraction, I don't see much benefit from the outcome, nor do I see the value in having summoned the new participant. The individual who did so may disagree.
• At least one person in this topic does not understand the meaning of the phrase "jump the shark."

rhino out!

PS I'm adopting an adaptation (see what I did there?) of the classically annoying "Seacrest out!" signoff.

 

[Coach]

At least one person in this topic does not understand the meaning of the phrase "jump the shark."

rhino out!

PS I'm adopting an adaptation (see what I did there?) of the classically annoying "Seacrest out!" signoff.

I was going to look it up later, but I think I have it now with the current context clues.