Trooper in deadly Montgomery County shooting identified, but questions remain

[KG1]

That's a great sentiment, but unfortunately, due process is not usually what happens in these types of shootings. The PD circles their wagons, the officer involved gets a slap on the wrist, and the case is closed.

Due process works only when the party employing the process isn't the one being investigated.

Just look at the Bisard fiasco here in Indy. Where was the due process there? Massive amounts of corruption and tampering of evidence. Then after Bisard finally does get convicted, he served 3 1/2 years of a 16 year sentence. Sure, people also lost their jobs. But that doesn't do a whole lot for the innocent people Bisard killed.

Frankly, no law enforcement agency should ever be in charge of investigating itself.

I understand that but like it or not due process is preferential to full on lynch mode IMO.

That was my point and there is also IMO a right to question that due process in any given case if one reasonably feels cause to do so.

 

[KG1]

It's a fine line between letting due process take it's course and letting time subtly help us loose track that there could be a real problem here.

Of course and one should raise the rational possibility that there could be without condemnation before determination.

 

[2A_Tom]

I understand and believe that due process for the officer is necessary.

I am not being snarky here, but I would like Mr. Rightsell to have has the same consideration.

I find the "Drive By Witness" account dubious,because they would have had to stop to see that much of the scene.

The officer's account also gives me pause.

There will never be closure in this situation. It will most likely go to court, drag out for years, cost the people a gob of settlement money, and be filed away with multiple non disclosure agreements.

 

[BigRed]

"At the end of the day the true responsibility of every officer is to pull into his driveway safe at the end of shift".... read it on INGO.

 

[edporch]

-snip_
It would be nice if some people could find another thread to exercise their right to be a smart ass. This topic is way to serious for people to just run their mouth.

I agree.
I started this thread with serious discussion in mind, now that more info has been released.

 

[bwframe]

Without condemning anything or admitting anything, maybe this would be a time review what the police academy is teaching in reference to how to deal with gun carrying citizens?

IIRC, our much appreciated INGO LEO's have commented on what the academy teaches vs how they have adapted over time with experience.

 

[Thor]

You mean we are supposed to PM you if we find people annoying? Why didn't I know about this before...

I always thought it was just better to walk away. PM me if you feel the need...

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Look, what you do on your own time is your own business, but if you agreed to pay, it's poor form not to pay.

After all, twenty dollars is twenty dollars..

 

[ditcherman]

Apologies if I disrespected the seriousness of the thread at all, certainly don’t mean to make that kind of first impression. Being a smart ax’s does come very naturally to me though.

It would certainly be very helpful in acquiring the truth of the matter if there was a second, ‘drive by’ witness and hopefully she went straight to a lawyer and told her story, or somehow corroborated it. If it’s an after the fact ploy by family or friends that could really invalidate and hurt the case.

 

[2A_Tom]

Hey I'm the smartass.

Double down, Dude. You must not like it here.

 

[PaulJF]

There is certainly room for conjecture as not all facts are known. But outright false statements, reordering the timeline, and omission are not helpful. Most of all, I want to learn as much as possible about what really happened so I can save myself and my family from having to experience a similar situation. Being a gun owner and carrying a gun has inherent risks. Mitigating those risks where possible is my goal. There is no real justice when you are dead.

 

[churchmouse]

Hey I'm the smartass.

Well, I tried.

1st casualty.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

When the news outlets starting reporting it and the witness also commented on some of the posts on fox 59 but since then she has deleted her FB account so I would assume she was advised to keep quiet during all of this from an attorney. You heard about what happened to the guy in NY right? The guy that videotaped the cops choking the guy over cigarettes was harassed by police, even arrested for releasing the video and has to constantly look over his shoulder. You always have to be careful when it comes to cops, if you catch them in the act they like to harass you and do whatever they can to get back at you.

That's a great sentiment, but unfortunately, due process is not usually what happens in these types of shootings. The PD circles their wagons, the officer involved gets a slap on the wrist, and the case is closed.

Due process works only when the party employing the process isn't the one being investigated.

Just look at the Bisard fiasco here in Indy. Where was the due process there? Massive amounts of corruption and tampering of evidence. Then after Bisard finally does get convicted, he served 3 1/2 years of a 16 year sentence. Sure, people also lost their jobs. But that doesn't do a whole lot for the innocent people Bisard killed.

Frankly, no law enforcement agency should ever be in charge of investigating itself.

He only killed one person. One too many, but it wasn't "people." Please list "massive amounts of corruption and tampering of evidence" and the names/positions of those that committed it. Also, the Legislature is the entity that allowed him to be released early, not the police.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Well, I tried.

1st casualty.

Took you long enough.

 

[churchmouse]

Took you long enough.

I am a kinder gentler churchmouse.

Just a note. Hang in one of the update threads if you want to be a ping-pong ball style poster. Do not disrupt in the more serious threads. Especially if it has been asked in the open multiple times.

 

[HoughMade]

...The witness who videotaped said the man shot by the cop, had his hands up in the air and was complying with orders...

Well if that's what a witness says, that's pretty definitive right there.

In a Video Taken Right After Shooting, 2 New Witnesses State Michael Brown Had His Hands Up

 

[2A_Tom]

I am probably mistaken, but I thought the person across the street did not even look until after the shots were heard.

 

[2A_Tom]

Hands up don't

 

[Coach]

Without condemning anything or admitting anything, maybe this would be a time review what the police academy is teaching in reference to how to deal with gun carrying citizens?

IIRC, our much appreciated INGO LEO's have commented on what the academy teaches vs how they have adapted over time with experience.

Doing some study and analysis is not a bad thing ever, and it may be something that goes on now. As I understand it there are at least three different academies in the state. The State Police, IMPD and everyone else. (There may be more not for sure)

There are some things to consider. I talk with regularly a guy who is a firearms instructor at the LEA. There are a ton of officer that come in that have never fired a gun. They have a lot of work to do with those folks in a week of the range to get them familiar and on target to qualify. If every aspect of the job is similar for these recruits think about how drinking out of a fire hose that situation is. How much can they absorb?

Training after the academy would seem to be very important. Some LEO do training on their own but most do not.


Think of the disadvantage that young officers are in on the job. Most of my wisdom has come from experience and a fair amount of that began with bad judgement.

An officer working the road cannot get too much firearms, gun-handling, reading people and circumstances training and experience. For that matter neither can the rest of us the EDC.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Doing some study and analysis is not a bad thing ever, and it may be something that goes on now. As I understand it there are at least three different academies in the state. The State Police, IMPD and everyone else. (There may be more not for sure)

There are some things to consider. I talk with regularly a guy who is a firearms instructor at the LEA. There are a ton of officer that come in that have never fired a gun. They have a lot of work to do with those folks in a week of the range to get them familiar and on target to qualify. If every aspect of the job is similar for these recruits think about how drinking out of a fire hose that situation is. How much can they absorb?

Training after the academy would seem to be very important. Some LEO do training on their own but most do not.


Think of the disadvantage that young officers are in on the job. Most of my wisdom has come from experience and a fair amount of that began with bad judgement.

An officer working the road cannot get too much firearms, gun-handling, reading people and circumstances training and experience. For that matter neither can the rest of us the EDC.

This 100%, a young kid is given a tremendous amount of responsibility, which could possibly be the first time in his life. Then he is expected to make every correct decision after that, even though he hasn't gained the knowledge that life throws at you.