Trump on Suppressors: “I don’t like them at all.”

[Ggreen]

Do you have any experience with pistol cans in low light. I've shot my bedside gun in LL and it completely destroys dark adaption it is so bright. I tried supposed low flash powder and was left unimpressed. I would certainly consider one if it provided a big improvement in this area. I keep a Beretta 96D on bedside duty

I've not shot mine in low-light, but I'll put it on my cz and video next chance I get. I have access to a private indoor range.

OH BTW... Grand Power has a roller delayed 9mm subgun coming to the us. Supposed to be under 1k and is a proven reliable design all over the world... If you need to scratch that poor mp5 itch....

 

[BugI02]

For the record I appreciate your input and agree with a great majority of the things that you’ve posted. As far as I’m concerned the beef has been quashed and I’ll just walk away. (nothing to see here CM)

I thank you kindly, sir. IMO there was no beef on my end, either. I regret singling you out and do apologize. For me the whole thing was useful experience about swimming upstream on INGO

 

[BugI02]

I've not shot mine in low-light, but I'll put it on my cz and video next chance I get. I have access to a private indoor range.

OH BTW... Grand Power has a roller delayed 9mm subgun coming to the us. Supposed to be under 1k and is a proven reliable design all over the world... If you need to scratch that poor mp5 itch....

I'll have to check that out online, thanks. Under 1K would be awesome

 

[Beowulf]

I understand and to a large extent agree with the "not another inch" philosophy but if you are going to play an all or nothing game, then you have to be prepared to accept the nothing. Few are so willing, rightfully so, and many of those that are have a completely different agenda. I, for one, hate the NFA, hate that suppressors, short barrels and full autos are included in it. At the same time, I'm damn glad that handguns weren't included as intended. I also hate the 86' prohibition on new machine guns but am glad that prohibitions on and obstacles to the ownership of other firearms were removed.

There is a time and place for all or nothing but not when the odds are in the favor of nothing. Conservatives really need to take a page from the Liberal play book here instead of being all or nothing all the time, we need to learn to take what we can get each time, then keep coming back over and over for more just like the Liberals have historically done. That's why they win so often and why they have been able to push their agendas so far. Liberals remind me of a skilled pack of wolves trying to kill and eat a bull moose, while Conservatives remind of a very dysfunctional wolf pack trying to accomplish the same goal. The Liberal wolf pack is perfectly willing to take a bite at a time until they eventually weaken it enough to bring down and consume the whole moose. The Conservative wolf pack just keeps futilely trying over and over to send one wolf out at a time to try to kill the moose in one bite. When each wolf in this pack fails to bring down the moose, it is replaced with another doomed to failure. Instead of building off what each one accomplishes, they start anew from scratch each time.

As silly as some of the tantrums being thrown here on both sides are, I think it is important to separate those who are just frustrated and letting off a little of that frustration from those that are merely opportunists seeking yet another opportunity to promote an agenda. The frustration and reactions by both sides are understandable even if the methods of dealing with it are questionable. Knee jerk reactions are rarely good ideas nor are they conducive to long term success, though they may be initially satisfying. An errant shot from the hip may be forgiven, regular encouragements of Ready! Fire! Aim! should not be.

The big issue is, your analogy is wrong. We aren't gaining freedom one bite at a time. We are losing it one bite at a time.

You point out the NFA not including handguns (which was it's real target to begin with) and the 86 GOPA (with the poison pill of the Hughes Amendment), but I don't really see any substantive gains? I've seen continuing assaults, with things like the Crime Bill, various import bans, plenty of states enacting bans.

Even the Supreme Court victories like Heller and McDonald are things that hold the line, but don't really take back much for most of us (of course, it did benefit folks in places with heavier gun control already, though most of those places are still enforcing their unconstitutional laws regardless of the SC decisions).

Then we have Trump and the bump stock ban and then maybe suppressors. So, where exactly are the gains? It wasn't like Trump banned bumpstocks, but managed to get the Hughes Amendment thrown out. Hell, he didn't even allow for the registration of the bumpstocks at machineguns. It was turn them in, Mr and Mrs America, or you will have a jack boot on your throat and another goon will shoot your dog.

Enough is enough. We need to move forward, not crow and preen about only being moved back one step, instead of two.

 

[BugI02]

I've not shot mine in low-light, but I'll put it on my cz and video next chance I get. I have access to a private indoor range.

OH BTW... Grand Power has a roller delayed 9mm subgun coming to the us. Supposed to be under 1k and is a proven reliable design all over the world... If you need to scratch that poor mp5 itch....

Is this it (the SP9A1)?

[video=youtube;liHfhiryOq8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHfhiryOq8[/video]

 

[Ggreen]

Is this it (the SP9A1)?

[video=youtube;liHfhiryOq8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHfhiryOq8[/video]

It will be a stribog but I think it's the A3. My avatar is my a1 sbr. It's not delayed blow back.

 

[rvb]

Do you have any experience with pistol cans in low light. I've shot my bedside gun in LL and it completely destroys dark adaption it is so bright. I tried supposed low flash powder and was left unimpressed. I would certainly consider one if it provided a big improvement in this area. I keep a Beretta 96D on bedside duty

Yes I have and it makes a very big difference. I went though a shoot house a couple times with and a couple times without the silencer on my 9mm AR (5" bbl). There's a huge difference w/ rifles, too. Way better than any simple flash suppressor muzzle device.

the flash is reduced and focused at the end of the barrel/silencer vs a big ball of flame... And just like there is sometimes "1st round pop" with the sound, there is sometimes "1st round flash." So just like with the sound, you can't go by just the numbers, there's more to it than that.

Try it. you'll like it!



examples on youtube...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_zDioLUwEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfERFKXk7cQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIZCKy4ZZSE


-rvb

 

[BugI02]

Wow, the level of flash reduction is insane!

 

[rvb]

Wow, the level of flash reduction is insane!

See... silencers ARE awesome!!

 

[NyleRN]

See... silencers ARE awesome!!

But he might contract the NFAIDS!

 

[nonobaddog]

Basically eliminates muzzle rise. Removing the bang also tends to reduce flinch.

[Struggling with this one, you're somewhat slowing down the mixing of the propellant gases with the environment at large but in no way reducing the recoil. If it was that simple, it seems like just putting a two pound bipod attached near the muzzle end would achieve the same effect]

Suppressors definitely do reduce felt recoil.

First - the weight. Yes adding weight will reduce felt recoil a little whether the weight is a suppressor or a bipod or a wad of pennies welded on.

Second - a much bigger factor is that they act a little like a muzzle brake. I will assume you know how effective muzzle brakes are. The chambers in the suppressor catch some of the high speed gasses.
Take a fictitious 5.56 load - 55 gr bullet over 26 gr of powder with a 20 in barrel. Lets say the bullet leaves at 3000 fps - there will be an equal and opposite reaction going back - this is the recoil from the bullet only - that does not change with a suppressor. But there are also 26 gr of gases leaving the muzzle - some of it is moving quite a bit faster than the bullet - this is a significant part of the felt recoil in a non-suppressed gun - like 30 to 40 percent. The suppressor has chambers that catch some of these gases so instead of the gases shooting out the muzzle and adding to the felt recoil, they impinge on the walls of the chambers and exert a forward force counteracting some of the rearward recoil force. So the suppressor is eliminating some of the gas portion of the recoil and actually counteracting some of the felt recoil from the bullet.

There are videos that demonstrate and measure this.

The muzzle brakes are even more effective because they redirect the gases to the side and slightly rearward. They eliminate even more of the gas portion of the recoil and counteract even more of the felt recoil from the bullet.

 

[cbhausen]

I’m

The big issue is, your analogy is wrong. We aren't gaining freedom one bite at a time. We are losing it one bite at a time.

You point out the NFA not including handguns (which was it's real target to begin with) and the 86 GOPA (with the poison pill of the Hughes Amendment), but I don't really see any substantive gains? I've seen continuing assaults, with things like the Crime Bill, various import bans, plenty of states enacting bans.

Even the Supreme Court victories like Heller and McDonald are things that hold the line, but don't really take back much for most of us (of course, it did benefit folks in places with heavier gun control already, though most of those places are still enforcing their unconstitutional laws regardless of the SC decisions).

Then we have Trump and the bump stock ban and then maybe suppressors. So, where exactly are the gains? It wasn't like Trump banned bumpstocks, but managed to get the Hughes Amendment thrown out. Hell, he didn't even allow for the registration of the bumpstocks at machineguns. It was turn them in, Mr and Mrs America, or you will have a jack boot on your throat and another goon will shoot your dog.

Enough is enough. We need to move forward, not crow and preen about only being moved back one step, instead of two.

^^^ THIS^^^

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m god****ed sick and tired of being ****ed over one little bit at a time and seeing the people around me be satisfied with that. Get up off your asses and make some ****ing noise. Don’t be the one who sits around and does nothing while our constitutional rights are being eroded one bit at a time. Stop this bull**** of thinking if we give a little will get to keep what we already have. It doesn’t work that way and we all know it. If you’re not active in, and donating to. gun rights groups you should be. If you’re not calling and/or sending emails to your Local and federal representatives you should be. At least get on the damned GOA mailing list where it takes all of 15 seconds to spam your Congress critters when it comes to important gun rights issues. Don’t sit there and say there’s nothing you can do because there’s plenty you can do.

/rant

 

[rvb]

Suppressors definitely do reduce felt recoil.

First - the weight. Yes adding weight will reduce felt recoil a little whether the weight is a suppressor or a bipod or a wad of pennies welded on.

Second - a much bigger factor is that they act a little like a muzzle brake. I will assume you know how effective muzzle brakes are. The chambers in the suppressor catch some of the high speed gasses.
Take a fictitious 5.56 load - 55 gr bullet over 26 gr of powder with a 20 in barrel. Lets say the bullet leaves at 3000 fps - there will be an equal and opposite reaction going back - this is the recoil from the bullet only - that does not change with a suppressor. But there are also 26 gr of gases leaving the muzzle - some of it is moving quite a bit faster than the bullet - this is a significant part of the felt recoil in a non-suppressed gun - like 30 to 40 percent. The suppressor has chambers that catch some of these gases so instead of the gases shooting out the muzzle and adding to the felt recoil, they impinge on the walls of the chamber and exert a forward force counteracting some of the rearward recoil force. So the suppressor is eliminating some of the gas portion of the recoil and actually counteracting some of the felt recoil from the bullet.

There are videos that demonstrate and measure this.

The muzzle brakes are even more effective because they redirect the gases to the side and slightly rearward. They eliminate even more of the gas portion of the recoil and counteract even more of the felt recoil from the bullet.

Yes, and there are more baffles for the gas to work against than a simple 2 or 3 port brake.

another thing where you have to experience it vs trying to look at the numbers. Silencers are better than muzzle brakes AND better than flash hiders. Hands down. Where typically the design features for muzzle brakes and flash hiders are mutually exclusive.

I couldnt find this earlier for some reason.... good video showing how muzzle flash is so well reduced.
https://youtu.be/7pOXunRYJIw

-rvb

 

[Dead Duck]

One more added benefit that I did notice with rifle suppressors...

I have an older AAC 762-SD that is a quick disconnect to their Flash Hiders, Muzzle Brakes and Brakeouts. (which is a combo of the two)
Using the full on Muzzle Brake or the Brakeout alone (without suppressor) helps with reducing recoil quite a bit. Having the Brakes coupled with the suppressor mounted to it actually helps better than coupled with their flash hider.

I have several Brakeouts on my 5.56 AR-15s as well as my 30 cals. Yes... Mutable Calibers.
Especially my super short 5.56 guns because.... the 30 cal suppressor is much larger that any 5.56 made ones I've seen and the added volume of the can itself helps with the insane brutal flamethrower that the shorter barrels can be.

So one suppressor switched from gun to gun and a few different calibers all with a simple push and a twist. Easy-Peasy.

AAC Flash Hiders

AAC Muzzle Brakes

AAC Brakeouts


And...
Since I don't have a 22lr suppressor for my daughter's rifle yet, I have used my Gemtech 9mm Multimount.
Not very often because the (early) Multimount doesn't come apart for cleaning. And that's bad for the can, man.

 

[KG1]

Interesting that no one has said they like suppressors so thy can sneak up on people and assassinate them without being detected.

 

[Dead Duck]

ALSO....

When my little girls were actually... Littler.... a suppressor on those big bad noisy guns was an easier way to get them more involved without that extra scare of the blast and noise plus we can talk to each other openly without ear protection going on and off. One more messy thing not to have to deal with while doing lessons with them.

This goes for my anti-gun liberal friends that have come to the range in the past. Their eyes don't bulge out of their head,as much, when using the suppressor. But they have commented about the legality of the "Silencer" because assassins use them.

 

[MCgrease08]

Interesting that no one has said they like suppressors so thy can sneak up on people and assassinate them without being detected.

That part is just understood.

 

[Dead Duck]

Interesting that no one has said they like suppressors so thy can sneak up on people and assassinate them without being detected.

That part is just understood.

We all need a side job.
Retirement these days just isn't enough.

 

[Trigger Time]

I’m

^^^ THIS^^^

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m god****ed sick and tired of being ****ed over one little bit at a time and seeing the people around me be satisfied with that. Get up off your asses and make some ****ing noise. Don’t be the one who sits around and does nothing while our constitutional rights are being eroded one bit at a time. Stop this bull**** of thinking if we give a little will get to keep what we already have. It doesn’t work that way and we all know it. If you’re not active in, and donating to. gun rights groups you should be. If you’re not calling and/or sending emails to your Local and federal representatives you should be. At least get on the damned GOA mailing list where it takes all of 15 seconds to spam your Congress critters when it comes to important gun rights issues. Don’t sit there and say there’s nothing you can do because there’s plenty you can do.

/rant

Yep exactly.
I think Trump didnt know what he was talking about but ive still already made several phone calls and emails just in case calling it out. If everyone in the gun industry and community would send 1 email a month even then we would start gaining ground im sure of it.
*****ing on the internet does nothing if you dont follow up with *****ing to your elected representatives.

 

[MCgrease08]

We all need a side job.
Retirement these days just isn't enough.

On that note, I recently watched a movie that's relevant to this comment. I believe it's on Netflix.

It's about a guy that keeps failing at suicide, so he hires an aging hit man to asassinate him.

[video=youtube_share;iBdH5uNf14Q]http://youtu.be/iBdH5uNf14Q[/video]