Trump's popularity on the rise

[PaulF]

So, is Kennedy celebrated or not? 'Cause no one should mistake him for faithful to his wife. He was just from a more discreet era. I think the 'celebration' has a lot to do with results (sorry Obama)

But this wasn't meant to be yet another 'what's wrong with Trump' thread. I seek a broad array of possible answers to a very specific question

By some, but not generally by historians.

I think the same will be true of Trump. Despite what the right-wing media constantly churns out, he really hasn't accomplished anything that cannot be undone with the stoke of a pen.

When it comes to Trump, the divide in perception is awesome in its scale and delusion. Trump's worshippers really seem to believe that he is playing on a level so advanced no one else can fathom his strategy and execution. His fiercest opponents seem to believe that his election has opened the first seal of the End Times. Neither is true.

Tump is a deeply flawed man. His only enduring skill has been the ability to keep his brand in the public eye. He isn't the smartest guy in the room, but he's no simpleton either. He's slick...and that reads very differently depending on whether you view him as an ally or not. He mirrors Bill Clinton in so many ways.

Trump has done nothing to end the ongoing erosion of individual liberty or state's rights, and has only furthered the decline of our markets into the crony-capitalist oligarch-fascist wet dream of the "global ruling class". You and I are no freer than we were under Obama. Trump isn't a great leader. He isn't a great thinker. He isn't a great executive. He has not, so far at least, proven himself to be a great president.

His followers will continue to attribute the sunrise to his election...and that's one of the reasons it's hard to take them seriously.

 

[Expat]

I always assume the ups and downs are just due to who they got ahold of in the survey. I don't know anyone that changes their minds on a weekly basis like these polls indicate.

 

[Trigger Time]

That's one man's opinion PaulF and you're entitled to it, but it's as relevant as mine is.

 

[PaulF]

Trump will go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents ever. Top 10 no doubt. Unless you are a member of the resistance (left) then you cant ever admit any Republican was ever good for the country.

We have a coup being attempted on this president. People need to be arrested and jailed and if convicted by a military tribunal, hanged.

If they even attempt to remove the president he should declare marshal law and let's get this started

If this same guy were a Democrat you'd be screaming for him to be strung up in a tree in the Rose Garden.

There is no coup. The right is simply reaping that which they have spent decades sowing. Everything being done to Trump came directly from the pages of the Republican playbook. The left sees this as payback time for Republican treatment of Bill Clinton and Obama. The 2016 election gave the left a perfect punching bag, and they intend to make full use of it. The right loved these tactics when they were being used to undermine Obama and Clinton, but when used against them the Republicans and their supporters turn into insufferable crybabies.

Trump appeals to very few people...fewer even than Hillary Clinton at the time of the election...and I think we can all agree at how horrid a person she is.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Is PoliticsNation now on Ingo?

 

[Expat]

Oh puh-leeze... the left took every opportunity to smear Reagan when he was in office. According to the media he was a war mongering old dotard that inflicted AIDS on homosexuals, caused homelessness and whatever else bad you can think of... Remember the destruction of Bork. Don't act like hateful rhetoric and political games was invented during the Clinton years.

 

[jamil]

I doubt it will affect him at all. People who like what he has accomplished (outside of the nonsense) seem to not care about his character.

I care that he’s morally corrupt. But if it’s a choice between this kind of moral corruption and the kind that will directly negatively affect me, I’ll concede to this one. I don’t support Trump. I support the policies I agree with and condemn the policies and behavior I don’t agree with.

 

[churchmouse]

I care that he’s morally corrupt. But if it’s a choice between this kind of moral corruption and the kind that will directly negatively affect me, I’ll concede to this one. I don’t support Trump. I support the policies I agree with and condemn the policies and behavior I don’t agree with.

+10 in-bound.

I do not care for any politician I have ever met (met a few) or that currently holds office.
I trust none of them to do the peoples work.
They all lie. Every freaking one of them. It is part of the power game. Pander to the base. Hand out the Koolaid.
Service those that feed your campaign war chest. 1st and foremost.
Listen to the lobbyist over the people. They are the money brokers.

 

[PaulF]

Oh puh-leeze... the left took every opportunity to smear Reagan when he was in office. According to the media he was a war mongering old dotard that inflicted AIDS on homosexuals, caused homelessness and whatever else bad you can think of... Remember the destruction of Bork. Don't act like hateful rhetoric and political games was invented during the Clinton years.

That's what you got from my post? Okay.

I agree with you. Politics is a dirty business, and it always has been. I remember Bork, but barely. I think the same is true for Washington DC...the collective "political memory" lasts for only so long. The players that acted in the Reagan years have all died or moved on to other things, and their grudges no longer have influence on the discussion.

Our current batch of "players" were all around during the Clinton years. Their grudges still do have influence on the conversation, and I think we see that at play now.

 

[jamil]

Exactly. If I am expected to accept others who are clearly contemptuous of the Constitution, equally contemptuous of people like me who enjoy exercising our constitutional rights and living as we see fit, have even worse morals than Trump allegedly has (paging Billy Jeff) in spite of the fact that Billy Jeff tried to present himself as far more pious than he really is, at least before he got caught while Trump has never denied the obvious appearance that he was the most irreligious candidate in the GOP primary (never mind that friends whose top three issues are religion, religion, and religion have reminded me that he has been very supportive of people of faith while I admittedly had not paid that close of attention) and am further expected to be indignant over who Trump may or may not have diddled (again, in the absence of pretense of piety), someone is in for some unfulfilled expectations.

I think I agree with what you’re saying. But it’s worth pointing out that there are two sentences in that paragraph, one is one word.

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

All I see are opinions being paraded around as facts. Let's be honest, the left hates the right and the right hates the left. The sooner we can agree on that, the sooner we can admit both sides are flawed. And can we please stop with the holier than thou and constant banging on the oppressed drum?

 

[jamil]

All I see are opinions being paraded around as facts. Let's be honest, the left hates the right and the right hates the left. The sooner we can agree on that, the sooner we can admit both sides are flawed. And can we please stop with the holier than thou and constant banging on the oppressed drum?

No really. Dave’s post had two sentences. The first was one word. I think I can say those are facts.

 

[BugI02]

All I see are opinions being paraded around as facts. Let's be honest, the left hates the right and the right hates the left. The sooner we can agree on that, the sooner we can admit both sides are flawed. And can we please stop with the holier than thou and constant banging on the oppressed drum?

Correct. The problem is, this doesn't seem to be self-damping. It appears more likely to lead to 1861 rather than some bright future

 

[Trigger Time]

If this same guy were a Democrat you'd be screaming for him to be strung up in a tree in the Rose Garden.

There is no coup. The right is simply reaping that which they have spent decades sowing. Everything being done to Trump came directly from the pages of the Republican playbook. The left sees this as payback time for Republican treatment of Bill Clinton and Obama. The 2016 election gave the left a perfect punching bag, and they intend to make full use of it. The right loved these tactics when they were being used to undermine Obama and Clinton, but when used against them the Republicans and their supporters turn into insufferable crybabies.

Trump appeals to very few people...fewer even than Hillary Clinton at the time of the election...and I think we can all agree at how horrid a person she is.

I never called for any harm to come to Obama and I hoped against it honestly because it would have hurt our country and I mean that.
Jail yes. Deportation yes. Neither great for the country but way better than an assassination of a duly elected president. Even if I think he was ineligible to be president and a criminal. Necer wished him physical harm and still dont. Nor Hillary the biggest traitor ever.

You are way off on this Paul. The Democrats have illegaly rigged and misused the system way more than has ever been seen before. People need to be in jail yesterday. Top people. Many people. Not Republicans and not trump people. This is an attempted coup if there ever has been one.
Trump appeals to so few people huh? LoL you are sadly mistaken. He apeals to way more people than will openly admit it for fear of repercussions from lunatics on the left and anarchist and so on. Also party loyalists from the far right. Trump is exactly what the doctor ordered and exactly what we need to flush the toilet on the scum. And he will be president for 8 years.
The morals of this country are in the hole. I think we will see a resurgence of religion in this country and this will be a battle of good vs evil. The only people trying to force everything down peoples throats are the godless and marxists scum on the left. They've awoke a sleeping giant. People who actualy contribute to this country and are its backbone and who wish to live in peace and do as they please and be left alone but that isnt good enough for the radical left. They want to tell us which bathrooms to use and that we cant call boys boys and girls girls. Well **** that. This **** show is coming to a head. Either the easy way or the hard way but either way the left monster and freak show is gonna crawl back into its cave. I am a VERY tolerant person when it comes to personal freedoms but when you mess with my country and my flag and my traditions and my restroom and my kids and my guns, and rule of law, that's it. Taking the word BOY out of boy scouts I think was the last straw for me. It's on.
**** these little *****es. If one gets in my face on the street I'm knocking it out. Gloves are off.

 

[OutdoorDad]

Oh puh-leeze... the left took every opportunity to smear Reagan when he was in office. According to the media he was a war mongering old dotard that inflicted AIDS on homosexuals, caused homelessness and whatever else bad you can think of... Remember the destruction of Bork. Don't act like hateful rhetoric and political games was invented during the Clinton years.

Bork? The only guy in DC who would fire Cox and aid obstruction of justice in return for a future political payoff??
That Bork?

The Bork who wasn’t smart enough to know that there’s only one Gerald Ford type payoff allowed per generation? And the Warren commission trumps the Nixon tapes?
That Bork?

The guy with the ratty assed beard and hair when Kennedy proved that appearances is greater than content.
That Bork?

Not a fan.

 

[jamil]

If this same guy were a Democrat you'd be screaming for him to be strung up in a tree in the Rose Garden.

There is no coup. The right is simply reaping that which they have spent decades sowing. Everything being done to Trump came directly from the pages of the Republican playbook. The left sees this as payback time for Republican treatment of Bill Clinton and Obama. The 2016 election gave the left a perfect punching bag, and they intend to make full use of it. The right loved these tactics when they were being used to undermine Obama and Clinton, but when used against them the Republicans and their supporters turn into insufferable crybabies.

Trump appeals to very few people...fewer even than Hillary Clinton at the time of the election...and I think we can all agree at how horrid a person she is.

You can argue that it’s from the same playbook as the Republicans, but you’re really only saying that Republicans got there first. There’s nothing about democrats’ behavior that should make an honest observer think they’re any more ethical than Republicans.

You can’t say it’s not a coup. Republicans tried to do it to Clinton. That’s what the Kenneth Star investigation was. Find something, anything, to justify impeachment. This is no less a coup. It’s just not a military coup.

And you can’t say that Republicans have it coming as sort of a payback. They want the Whitehouse back. This is for a purpose. I think it’s fair to say it’s a game of one side outdoing the last outrageous thing the other did. If you’re going to say Republicans are responsible for this, then be prepared for the logical conclusion that the Democrats will be responsible for the even more outrageous thing the Republicans pull.

 

[PaulF]

You can argue that it’s from the same playbook as the Republicans, but you’re really only saying that Republicans got there first. There’s nothing about democrats’ behavior that should make an honest observer think they’re any more ethical than Republicans.

You can’t say it’s not a coup. Republicans tried to do it to Clinton. That’s what the Kenneth Star investigation was. Find something, anything, to justify impeachment. This is no less a coup. It’s just not a military coup.

And you can’t say that Republicans have it coming as sort of a payback. They want the Whitehouse back. This is for a purpose. I think it’s fair to say it’s a game of one side outdoing the last outrageous thing the other did. If you’re going to say Republicans are responsible for this, then be prepared for the logical conclusion that the Democrats will be responsible for the even more outrageous thing the Republicans pull.

I'm not making the argument that the behavior is ethical, and certainly not that it is more ethical for the left to engage in it than the right...and I argue it isn't a coup because it's all just for show. These things (endless investigations, subversive public messaging, etc) are apparently just the new "normal" for our political class.

The right wing media has spent the better part of the decade propping up lies and allegations about Obama, we discussed it earlier in this thread: remember birtherism, muslim obama, communist obama, etc? They use their media to spread propaganda...they have no reason to expect the left won't do the same to them. I'm NOT saying that the right "has this coming"...only that it shouldn't be a surprise the left is behaving this way.

The whole seems to me to be a pendulum...much like in the old Edgar Allen Poe story...each time the pendulum swings it takes a bite out of political decorum (for lack of a better description), exposing a newer, lower standard of behavior. Once one side (doesn't matter which) puts a tactic into play it becomes fair game for the other side to use it...even go a little further.

I'm not saying the left-wing media's treatment of Trump is right or good, only that it isn't unprecedented and shouldn't be unexpected.

I'm sick of the good guys/bad guys allies and enemies narrative thrown around about American politics. There are no good guys, only bad guys...and "our" bad guys aren't really any better than "their" bad guys. That's just propaganda, artifice, fiction. This tit-for-tat race to the bottom of social decorum is just political theater, ever more spectacular and outrageous in order to keep the attention of the public. I think it's a carefully-practiced slight of hand intended to distract the public from the fact that their government has been coopted to effectively serve the needs of a privileged few.

 

[bwframe]

Let us not forget, the VERY best thing about seeing Trump's popularity rise,...



...watching the hissy fits the libs have trying to explain it away.

 

[PaulF]

Trump's popularity (approval percentage less disapproval percentage), as measured by the Real Clear Politics aggregate of such polls, has begun trending strongly more positive. For much of the last several months it has been in the low teens, suddenly May 1 (significant date?) it dropped into single digits for the first time and continued its strong positive trend for the rest of the week

5/1 -9.5%
5/2 -9.1%
5/3 -9%
5/4 -8.6%
5/5 -7.7%

The aggregate number only changes when new polls are factored into the mix; so there must have been a number of new polls, all of them strongly positive (to so affect the average)

So, why now? Does this affect the calculations predicting the vaunted blue wave?

Contrast and discuss

When I look at the numbers only one thing really stands out for me: just how much higher Trump's disapproval trend has plotted versus the last twelve presidents. (FiveThirtyEight). His plot actually trends fairly straight, with lots of little dips and peaks along the way. Only time will tell if this latest upswing is the beginning of a large upward trend, or another predictable corrective "blip" on a generally steady trend. To me, the data looks pretty cut-and-dried: his supporters continue to support him at the level they always have, and his haters continue to hate as much as they ever have. I don't see convincing evidence they he is changing minds or attracting large number of voters...yet.

His supporters LOVE him...but I think they overestimate their numbers. His detractors HATE him...but I think they overestimate their support as well. I'm not making any predictions about the upcoming election...my read of the last election was way off. The blue wave? IDK...I wouldn't expect much more than a tidal puddle. People don't really want what the democrats are selling...they just need a democrat to remind them of that every few years. The problem is, the same is true of the republicans...the public doesn't really want what they're selling either. A vote for one party is often really a vote against the misdeeds of the other (often incumbent) party. Outrage drives voters to the poles.

By my read the left is currently more outraged than the right, and I think that could influence the next two elections.

 

[Dead Duck]

Those who stumble in the light are blinded by hate. To truly see, you need only to open your heart.